Lots of new Vanguard info released, plus videos & screenshots

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

I read Brad and teams entire response, and a theme appeared (at least to me) of an overall "we are doing our best, we are working on it, we are running short on time, stfu with your bitching". Did anyone else get that too ?

My take had a little "If you want EQ1, you know where to find it" mixed in there as well.

[Mithrull]

Originally Posted by Itzena

My take had a little "If you want EQ1, you know where to find it" mixed in there as well.

A whole LOT of that. Of course, the response to that on the VG boards is always that EQ isn't EQ anymore. The MMO world has passed the old EQ model by and there's a little cult that desparately wants some company to lose millions giving it back to them.

[Grabbit Allworth]

Corpse retrievals still exist. However, you have an option to a CR, at a cost.

When you die, you lose significant amount of XP. Returning to your corpse returns "most" of it. Summoning it at a shrine returns none of it. Summoning your corpse also has a progressive monetary cost. Right now, the coin cost hasn't been anything prohibitive, but I'm pretty sure it will sting more and more as I level and if I remember correctly Brad said that the cost for corpse summoning is going to be tweaked.

My character is only in the late teens, but the bite of the lost xp is enough that I choose to recover my corpse 9 out of 10 times even at my relatively low level.


Personally, I like having the option.

If I'm able, I'll retrieve my corpse 90% of the time, but there are occasions when a group runs too long and I have to leave for whatever reason. I don't want to spend the next day building a group JUST to get my corpse from the depths of some dungeon.

Example -

Work calls me and I have to be there in two hours. I decide to spend another hour with my group and then leave for work. 10 minutes before I leave we wipe and it's going to take at least 30 minutes to get back to our corpses. I choose to take the xp hit (which is pretty big) and go to work. When I log in after my shift I may be down some xp and but at least I'm ready to play again instead of having to find a search a rescue team.

[Cantatus]

Originally Posted by Itzena

My take had a little "If you want EQ1, you know where to find it" mixed in there as well.

I'd also add in a little "We didn't hype this game correctly the past few years!"

[rinthea]

The talk of different death penalties for different servers is a bad idea. People will only play the easiest death penalty servers.

[Kaxmax]

Originally Posted by holymight

Or maybe he is under NDA and doesn't want to lose beta access because he like the game?

You're in beta, and it doesn't stop you from posting positives about the game (and without breaking the NDA, for the most part).

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Cantatus

I'd also add in a little "We didn't hype this game correctly the past few years!"

Amen.

[Eomer]

Originally Posted by Arkturus

I think, THINK, his point was you have to be pretty naive to think SoE has no influence on Vanguard. Sigil might own the rights to the game, but they are piggy-backing on SoE's network.

It's like trying to say ABC has no influence on Lost. They don't produce it...they just own the network it gets shown on. Pretty powerful position I'd wager.

Oh I agree that they'd have some influence. But the point is, SGO owns the rights to VG and it's development, and SOE is simply a publisher. They don't swing nearly as big of a hammer as they would in a more typical developer/publisher relationship. Basically, SOE can't issue an ultimatum to SGO about a design decision and expect them to follow through automatically, because SGO could just pick up their ball and leave.

Originally Posted by Cantatus

And Microsoft had no influence on Vanguard either, right? But didn't we find out otherwise when that deal dissolved?

That's just the point. MS didn't like where things were going. In a normal developer/publisher relationship, they'd force SGO to make changes to the game to meet their expectations, and SGO would have no choice but to do so. In this case, they were unable to force SGO into doing what they wanted, and either they or SGO initiated the termination of their partnership.

Originally Posted by Grabbit

Work calls me and I have to be there in two hours. I decide to spend another hour with my group and then leave for work. 10 minutes before I leave we wipe and it's going to take at least 30 minutes to get back to our corpses. I choose to take the xp hit (which is pretty big) and go to work. When I log in after my shift I may be down some xp and but at least I'm ready to play again instead of having to find a search a rescue team.

That sounds good, actually. Having a double death penalty (if you didn't get a res) in EQ was always kind of crappy. Not only would you have to somehow fight to your corpse buck nekkid, you wouldn't get the experience back either. Course, I was a cleric, so that was never an issue for me personally, but I heard it sucked.

[Rotanee]

Vanguard just added 500 more accounts to beta a few weeks ago? I would say the initial response from the new people was less than impressive.

The thing from a business stand point is the way they seem to change total focus every now and then. I obviously have no way of knowing, it appears however they don't have a basic set principles of what they think makes something fun or not fun they have stuck with. It is like their focus on this fundamental type of stuff changes just as much as how they try to implement those things.

I can see specific game play adjustments like a mini map, death penalty and combat design adjustments. Those are normal from what it seems every game goes through in Betas and part of balancing difficulty and so on. Adjustments focused on making up content, making entry levels interesting, and such, aren’t fine tuning and should have been recognized as part of a general well defined theme set down at the outset.

Do you see the problem? You come up with idea X and implement it by spending money, and then you realize after the flaws in X come out it lacking, so you come up with Y, then Z and do the same thing over and over again. Each time you are adding more and more cost and altering the game in such a way that when you are done you have parts of X, Y and Z and so on in a piecemeal sort of fashion. Yet those parts were not designed wholly with the other parts in mind.

How much will be broken and unworkable as a result? At what level do the mechanics of quests and the mathematics behind those things get changed? How much are storyboards altered. Do you really have time to review all parts every time you make fundamental changes?

The changes I see with Vanguard bring up questions of concern simply because they are not changes intended to try to balance out what their main focuses and goals for the game are; they are changes in the basic idea of the game itself.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Oh I agree that they'd have some influence. But the point is, SGO owns the rights to VG and it's development, and SOE is simply a publisher. They don't swing nearly as big of a hammer as they would in a more typical developer/publisher relationship. Basically, SOE can't issue an ultimatum to SGO about a design decision and expect them to follow through automatically, because SGO could just pick up their ball and leave.

I don't think SOE is simply a publisher, with regards to Vanguard or with regards to any game they are involved in, to believe otherwise is kind of silly. I firmly believe that SOE can and does issue ultimatums, not only to SGO, but to any and all games that are currently in their "stable". I would say those umtimatums are probably more "general" in aspect, rather then "specific" with an example being more like this :

"Hey Sigil, your shit is tedious and not fun, lets get on the ball here"

rather then

"We noticed that the warriors were mitigating damage from the rear arc at levels that are unacceptable to us, please alter this calculation and get back to us".

You mention SGO will take their game and go elsewhere, and I submit to you, with all sincerity that the SGO + SOE partnership was really more like SGO washing up on the SOE as savior shore.

I really, REALLY doubt when SGO announced that the MS partnership was ending, that all or even any of the game publishing houses were kicking down Brad's door wanting to throw money at him- think about it, if Microsoft (who has just about the deepest pockets in existance) says "fuck this noise, I am out" what kind of message does that send to other publishers ?

I don't think there is anywhere else they can go, they are backed into the corner here, or we wouldnt be seeing all these major sweeping style changes so late in the game.

[vynde]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

I don't think there is anywhere else they can go, they are backed into the corner here, or we wouldnt be seeing all these major sweeping style changes so late in the game.

yeah these changes got me thinking...

vg in jan? or go back to my paladin in wow and potentially be forced into healbotting again?

[Grabbit Allworth]

I think you're grossly overstating the changes being made to the core of the game.

They're certainly not sweeping massive overhauls to existing systems.

[vynde]

Originally Posted by Grabbit Allworth

I think you're grossly overstating the changes being made to the core of the game.

They're certainly not sweeping massive overhauls to existing systems.

my logic is this: why should i spend $50, level up all over again, put up with bugs, and probably upgrade my system when i can just go back to wow? wow clones suck, end of discussion. why should i go to a clone when the original is bigger and better?

now...if vg has alternet ruleset servers where they'd have CRs, no minimaps, etc, count me in.

[Cantatus]

Originally Posted by Eomer

That's just the point. MS didn't like where things were going. In a normal developer/publisher relationship, they'd force SGO to make changes to the game to meet their expectations, and SGO would have no choice but to do so. In this case, they were unable to force SGO into doing what they wanted, and either they or SGO initiated the termination of their partnership.

Right, and all the while Sigil and Microsoft would go on about how everything was hunky-dorey and Microsoft was keeping their hands off like the perfect developer. Didn't exactly work out that way, so why should we so readily believe it this time? And sure, if SOE were throwing their weight around, Sigil could do what they did with Microsoft, but after breaking off deals with two of the biggest tech companies, like Hiram pointed out, where else are they going to go? It's not like the MMOG industry is full of publishers looking for independent developers. NCSoft is probably the only other option, and considering how many titles they have in the works, I doubt they'd come running.

No clue if SOE is or isn't trying to influence Vanguard's development, but considering they have an interest in Vanguard doing well, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they were.

[vynde]

Originally Posted by Cantatus

No clue if SOE is or isn't trying to influence Vanguard's development, but considering they have an interest in Vanguard doing well, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they were.

if you look at eq and swg they have tried to wow-ify them. so why wouldnt they do that for vg too?