Lots of new Vanguard info released, plus videos & screenshots

[Ngruk]

Originally Posted by Kildace

How many of you beta people that say the game sucks have gone beyond level 10? Level 20?
You can't judge a game on the first 15 levels, especially a grouping game on an underpopulated beta server. WoW beta was extremely popular because of two reasons:

I disagree with this. I am not saying you are wrong, but merely that I would disagree. If you can't judge a game, or come to a conclusion about some aspects of gameplay, within the first hour, much less 10-15 levels, then in my opinion it's not a game you will like. I don't know about other people, but for me a good game is a good game when I start playing, and gets better as I play it.

I think WoW did a great job in that I felt like the content 2 minutes into my first playing, was as well thought out and fun as the content is months later. THat matters to me, it matters to me that the designers paid attention to EVERY detail of gameplay that I've seen to this point.

Vanguard, to even THINK about passing judgement at this point is impossible for me. It's in BETA, it's in a different place than EQ, or EQ2 beta was at this point, but to me BETA is BETA and regardless of what's said by anyone other than the actual people making the game is heresay. When I hear the games going to launch, and the final beta day is upon us, that's when I would pass my own judgement.

To compare it to SOE and EQ2, I felt that the final day of EQ2 beta was about 6 months early. That's the player in me talking. But I did grind in beta with DROW and we worked our butts off, truly testing the game and being testers, much more than finding content and the hot spots to level.

I also was at a point where I understood that alot of the decisions being made to launch EQ2, and MMOs everywhere, is often times not in the hands of the person you think it is. In a huge company like SOE for example, there are unfortunately things that enter the launch decision process that at times don't jibe with what the creative people think and feel about a game and it's current state and plan of progression.

[Kildace]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

I disagree with this. I am not saying you are wrong, but merely that I would disagree. If you can't judge a game, or come to a conclusion about some aspects of gameplay, within the first hour, much less 10-15 levels, then in my opinion it's not a game you will like. I don't know about other people, but for me a good game is a good game when I start playing, and gets better as I play it.

I think that Vanguard, at least Closed Beta Vanguard does not fit into that model.

As I said in my post, Vanguard is a grouping game. The first few levels, depending on which newbie area you land in (some are finished, some aren't, some are a disgrace) can be a pretty fun experience full of great sights and completely immersing you into the world and I honestly have trouble imagining that people landing in the two bests newbie zones didn't enjoy their first 6 levels. The problem is afterward, when you go out of your newbie zone and you're faced with a very large and disorienting world, and where most of the quests you are given require you to group, else you're forced to grind.
At release or in open beta that wouldn't be a problem, the servers would be dense and you'll likely have started with friends so you'll be able to group up right away, tackle the quests and probably have a lot of fun.
In closed beta it's really not the case, given the hate of PUGs I see all the time in these forums I'd be surprised if 1 in 5 people even tried to group up and didn't just give up on the game right then. I know I did, I just didn't want to go through the hassle of PUGing with Vanbois at level 8. After EQ I wouldn't have minded. After WoW (and real life obligations since I'm not the high school kid I was back then) I'm just not that kind of gamer anymore, certainly not in a beta anyway.

This is why I feel that the opinion from people who have a low level in beta and never got to experience what's supposed to be the selling point of Vanguard : dungeons and the huge world, really aren't in a position to speak about the quality of the game.

[Aegorian]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

I disagree with this. I am not saying you are wrong, but merely that I would disagree. If you can't judge a game, or come to a conclusion about some aspects of gameplay, within the first hour, much less 10-15 levels, then in my opinion it's not a game you will like. I don't know about other people, but for me a good game is a good game when I start playing, and gets better as I play it.

I think WoW did a great job in that I felt like the content 2 minutes into my first playing, was as well thought out and fun as the content is months later. THat matters to me, it matters to me that the designers paid attention to EVERY detail of gameplay that I've seen to this point.

Vanguard, to even THINK about passing judgement at this point is impossible for me. It's in BETA, it's in a different place than EQ, or EQ2 beta was at this point, but to me BETA is BETA and regardless of what's said by anyone other than the actual people making the game is heresay. When I hear the games going to launch, and the final beta day is upon us, that's when I would pass my own judgement.

To compare it to SOE and EQ2, I felt that the final day of EQ2 beta was about 6 months early. That's the player in me talking. But I did grind in beta with DROW and we worked our butts off, truly testing the game and being testers, much more than finding content and the hot spots to level.

I also was at a point where I understood that alot of the decisions being made to launch EQ2, and MMOs everywhere, is often times not in the hands of the person you think it is. In a huge company like SOE for example, there are unfortunately things that enter the launch decision process that at times don't jibe with what the creative people think and feel about a game and it's current state and plan of progression.

Totally agree with that Beta statement Ngurk. After seeing the recently released Kojan continent as well as the revamped Thestra, i have more hope than ever for Vanguard. Whereas things weren't capturing me before, they surely are now. I know time is running out, but with the steps they've been taking lately and many of the dev ideas i've read regarding some of the more debatable mechanics, i'm really starting to see major potential. All that being said, however, i would imagine they can also still really take steps backwards in the same period of time. It's hard to bite your tongue regarding every little thing, but i just wont pass judgment until i see the whole picture.

[Seths]

Originally Posted by Aegorian

It's hard to bite your tongue regarding every little thing, but i just wont pass judgment until i see the whole picture.

The most sane words in this thread in a long, long time.

[Eomer]

I'm almost positive The Hiram Key was not, and is not in the beta. His comments make it fairly obvious that he doesn't have first hand knowledge of the game. And I'm not calling him out or anything, he's not the one who made the claim. Someone else did.

[Fury]

Originally Posted by Rythonn

Except the most vocal against the game are not in beta.

You might want to recheck that. I'm willing to bet you'd be surprised.

[Cantatus]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

I disagree with this. I am not saying you are wrong, but merely that I would disagree. If you can't judge a game, or come to a conclusion about some aspects of gameplay, within the first hour, much less 10-15 levels, then in my opinion it's not a game you will like. I don't know about other people, but for me a good game is a good game when I start playing, and gets better as I play it.

Completely agree with you. When FFXI came out, I had friends who go the game, installed it, logged in, got frustrated, uninstalled a couple hours later, and never looked back. The cliche "first impressions die hard" couldn't be truer than for MMOGs. If you can't draw those players in within the first few minutes and make them want to continue to play, it doesn't matter if 20 levels down the road the gaming experience is far above what any other game can offer. It shouldn't be an acquired taste. How many people would stick with a movie if the first 30 minutes sucked or continue reading a book after 10 mediocre chapters? Even if 5% of players are fickle enough to quick a game within the first 10 levels, that's potentially 25,000 players of your 500,000 subscribers.

Of course, beta is a completely different beast, but if Vanguard can't make those initial levels compelling enough, it won't matter how amazing the endgame is.

[vynde]

Originally Posted by Cantatus

If you can't draw those players in within the first few minutes and make them want to continue to play, it doesn't matter if 20 levels down the road the gaming experience is far above what any other game can offer. It shouldn't be an acquired taste.

i get what youre saying but i have had a different experience. in eq my first hour as a DE cleric wasnt bad, but it wasnt anything exciting. what made me play was the lore, thinking about how eventually ill be crawling dungeons, and killing dragons. sometimes it depends on the environment and story of the game. however, with wow my experience was just like yours: i had a blast and wanted to keep going

[Faelor]

New video is up here.

[Lyenae]

Originally Posted by Faelor

Leet behind-the-scenes dice rolling skillless fake combat video is up here.

Fixed.

[Dashal]

The "hook" is important to have in the begining and that fact is realized by the VG Devs. I'm anxious to see what they do about it though. Nuff said there.

New video is fluff. Not impressive really.

By the way, it was very interesting to read old posts on this forum about the WoW beta a few months before release. Many similar arguments were going on. Too hard. Too easy. Boring Quests. Fun! Not fun. Make it more realistic! Remove fall damage! Nothing constructive on beta forums. Death penalty too harsh (was really surprised to see this one). Death penalty too easy! Devs dont know what they want. This game will be AWESOME! This game is over hyped. They nerfed my ability!

Would you buy it right now? Yes. No. It crashes too much. We'll see.

[gremlinz273]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Fixed.

Lol, I can amlost see the slathering bits of hatred frothing from your mouth.

[Greyskye]

Two things I didn't like about that short vid:

1) SOE logo up first.

2) Did they actually friggin TradeMark "Set yourself free"?!?

[Elgonn]

Damn that video sucked. Bad animations in a flash video to make it worse.

Originally Posted by Dashal

Would you buy it right now?

No. Performance reasons. Maybe it will be fun to play in 2 years. I've gotten too used to being able to do things like play WoW during my commute.

[Jabberwhacky]

Well it's stupid to ask if you'd buy it right now when it's not for sale right now. It's not even going to be on sale this *year* so don't bother thinking about it. Why do I even need to say this?