Lots of new Vanguard info released, plus videos & screenshots

[Aegorian]

Originally Posted by Lonin

1) Caravans, this supposedly 3rd generation feature just lets you log out for 3 (I believe) hours and end up at the bind point of the caravan leader when you log in again.

Soo... i'm not seeing the issue with this one... does it not work? it sounds useful to me.

2) AES (Advanced Encounter System) is virtually non-existent in the game. Brad even stated in his recent post that this was over-hyped and will only be in the game to a much smaller extent.

Sure did say that. Also said it would continue to be implemented upon release. It's not like this is a system they gave up on, it's just a larger task than they first thought. They're seeing it through tho.

3) Tactile/aimed combat system. The whole combat mechanic where you aimed your strikes to certain hitboxes on your target, including the wound system, was scrapped back in beta 2.0.

praise god it was scrapped

4) Boats, also in the game to a lesser extent than was originally implied.

Arent they just finishing up boat recipes and quests? Also, please inform me how many continents prior to last week were open at any given time. I'm gonna go with 1. Why in gods name would you need a boat to travel between 1 continent(s)?

5) The whole chain combat system is an extremely shallow and boring mechanic. Not nearly as involved as was previously implied.

This is being expanded upon.

6) Diplomacy may eventually live up to the hype that it has been given by Sigil, but it won't by release. It has a lot of potential, but that's Vanguard in a nutshell, potential and no follow-through.

heh... you're stretching now. Diplo is a very cool concept and it's been well implemented so far. Granted, not everyone will enjoy it because it's a casual card game, but the benefits you gain and the amount of content it provides is very cool.

7) Unique and in-depth character customization (in terms of gameplay, not graphics). This is quite possibly the biggest downfall of Vanguard IMO. After you hit level 20, you get maybe 5 more new spells until 50, the rest are just new ranks. On top of this, with the exception of a few classes with paths (monk, shaman), all characters of the same class will play exactly the same. There is pretty much no option to advance your character in a different route than someone else.

Some kind of AA system coming soon post-launch. Boy you should keep up with dev posts.

8) Lore, or lack of it. There are lots of small story lines throughout Vanguard, some better than others, but most people enjoy the over-arching lore the most. Why is this city here? Why do the dark elves and gnomes hate eachother? Why should I bother fighting at all? What is the threat to the world? Etc, etc, etc. Vanguard is seriously lacking in large scale lore, at least in-game.

I've been noticing lately with the newbie yards revamps that they have A LOT more of this. I agree with you tho, there needs to be more overall.

9) Faction systems, or once again, the lack of it. Faction plays very little role in Vanguard currently. I'm sure they are working on this, but I doubt they will be able to get an in-depth and interesting faction system up and running by release, or even a few months after.

I disagree. I recall dev quotes talking about the faction system being worked on a few months ago. Just because it hasnt been released to us yet doesnt mean it isnt near completion and/or complex. Speculation sucks my wang.

*shrugs* paint whatever picture you will. I'm not a rabid vanguard "fanboi", but you dont seem to paint the entire picture with anything you wrote. Yup... time is becoming an issue, and i'm curious what they can do in that time, but overall the base mechanics are wonderfully built and have room to be expanded upon exponentially down the road. I find people like you funny who just care about the current state of the game and fail to see the potential is has down the road. May not be the supreme product at release, but it certainly has the potential to be one down the road.

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by Aegorian

*shrugs* paint whatever picture you will. I'm not a rabid vanguard "fanboi", but you dont seem to paint the entire picture with anything you wrote. Yup... time is becoming an issue, and i'm curious what they can do in that time, but overall the base mechanics are wonderfully built and have room to be expanded upon exponentially down the road. I find people like you funny who just care about the current state of the game and fail to see the potential is has down the road. May not be the supreme product at release, but it certainly has the potential to be one down the road.

A vast majority of gamers won't care about "the potential is has down the road". They'll want to know what happened to features they were looking forward to that won't be implemented by launch. Like those Lonin listed.

At this point, the games NDA is pretty pointless. Sigil should consider dropping it to allow those who ARE enjoying the game, to hype its more positive aspects. The games image is suffering badly from the overabundance of negative information leaking out of evey beta orifice. There simply doesn't seem to be enough positive aspects left to convince gamers that this game will be worth buying on launch day. At the moment, it sounds dangerously like an overly glorified EverQuest.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Deris

I have a feeling Vanguard is going to pull 500k+ the first few months (mostly the Roleplay/Tradeskill/LolWowisEZMOAD crowd) then drop to ~200k and remain there. It has potential ,and I have yet to see little, if any of it realized - hopefully some major changes happen.

Vanguard will take the exact same path that SWG once took. It will start out with lots of expectations and lots of hype, then people will start to notice how bad it is and the enthusiasm will slowly fade out. Sigil will make some radical changes and maybe rush the first expansion, but things will only get worse. In the end there will be a few "hardcore"-players left who love the game the way it is, just like there were some left in SWG, but the majority of people will lose interest and switch back to other games.

You are allowed to quote me on this statement a few months into release.

[Slick Willey]

Originally Posted by Aegorian

I find people like you funny who just care about the current state of the game and fail to see the potential is has down the road. May not be the supreme product at release, but it certainly has the potential to be one down the road.

Are we talking about EQ2 or Vanguard?

Why is it when I read things like this I suddenly think its November 2004 and EQ2 has just been released?

[Erie]

Originally Posted by Neric

Vanguard will take the exact same path that SWG once took. It will start out with lots of expectations and lots of hype, then people will start to notice how bad it is and the enthusiasm will slowly fade out. Sigil will make some radical changes and maybe rush the first expansion, but things will only get worse. In the end there will be a few "hardcore"-players left who love the game the way it is, just like there were some left in SWG, but the majority of people will lose interest and switch back to other games.

You are allowed to quote me on this statement a few months into release.

You're completely wrong. And your second statement is that of your psycho nature, your allowed to have your opinion but no one else is allowed?

SWG in no way resembles Vanguard.. as Vanguard isn't doing anything radically new that would get peoples expectations above normal.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Erie

I'm sure they can tell what number of people use the pass that log into vanguard.

Tell yes, reveal no. I don't see 500k initial sales, not with the word of mouth on the net going around. Being very generous I would say 300k initial, on going subs (after the free month) probably 80-90 if that.

This is not a Wow clone, it's not geared for the masses and is definately a "niche" game.

Niche games usually do not pull half a million units at launch. Pointless armchair QBing though, they will never release the actual numbers, and if they do in fact release them, they will be inflated, skewed, and altered with an eye on showing the game is popular and growing.

I don't like how Smed uses his all access pass to count subs for all the games that are under that umbrella. It's shitty accounting, and in my book is bald faced lying.

[Cantatus]

Originally Posted by Rayne

A vast majority of gamers won't care about "the potential is has down the road". They'll want to know what happened to features they were looking forward to that won't be implemented by launch. Like those Lonin listed.

Exactly my feelings. You can tell me a cool feature is going to be implemented after release (or that it'll be expanded upon), but why is that going to make me buy the game at release? To begin with, "after release" could mean anything from the first patch to the first expansion to two years down the road or anything in between or after. If they hyped it so much pre-launch and it didn't happen, why should I believe it'll happen in any timely manner after launch? That's the whole problem people have about MMOGs being released unfinished.

Of course, from what we've seen, stuff like this just ends up permanently hurting MMOGs. It seems nearly impossible for a MMOG to recover from a decline in sales within the first few months. So, one can promise until their blue in the face about a certain feature, but if the game doesn't have the initial draw, it's unlikely players are going to come back once it is in.

[kcxiv]

I dont think this game is going to do well.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Rayne

A vast majority of gamers won't care about "the potential is has down the road". They'll want to know what happened to features they were looking forward to that won't be implemented by launch. Like those Lonin listed.

At this point, the games NDA is pretty pointless. Sigil should consider dropping it to allow those who ARE enjoying the game, to hype its more positive aspects. The games image is suffering badly from the overabundance of negative information leaking out of evey beta orifice. There simply doesn't seem to be enough positive aspects left to convince gamers that this game will be worth buying on launch day. At the moment, it sounds dangerously like an overly glorified EverQuest.

i dont think lifting the NDA will be a good thing. lol

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

i dont think lifting the NDA will be a good thing. lol

Perhaps not. But at the moment, the only thing that might put a more positive spin on this whole thing, would be for some of the testers actually enjoying themselves to be able to freely discuss what makes the game fun for them. It likely wouldn't matter though. I think its pretty obvious that Sigil isn't listening to thier testers. And I still can't help but wonder if they're still listening to the so-called "hardcore" asshats that were chasing testers off the beta forums months ago.

Over 2 years. Thats how long ago I took interest in Vanguard. And with each passing week, my interest has slipped tremendously. Perhaps i'll try it one day. But it certainly won't be the day it launches.

[Lonin]

Originally Posted by CylusSoulreaver

They killed a few higher level/dot mobs over the course of a few hours of a single day with classes, items and mechanics that are still in the process of being tuned. Try not to blow the "raid testing" out of proportion too much, tho

You're right, that's the extent of raid content in Vanguard at the moment, and you're making my point that Vanguard still has a ton of work to do. As for it being a single day, that's inaccurate.

My intention wasn't to overstate what that guild did, it was to point out that the only guild testing raid content, and the guild with the vast majority of high level players with tons of test time, has found Vanguard to be seriously lacking in a lot of areas. Certainly not just "hardcore" areas either. Personally, if I see 500 random people throw a hissy fit and leave a game (such as with the whole SOE switch-over), I don't give a shit. But when I see 30 credible people who have put a lot of time into a developing game leave because of the direction it's heading, I'll pay attention.

Anyway, I don't want to argue with you Cylus, I like you and I understand where you are coming from.

[Lonin]

Originally Posted by Aegorian

*shrugs* paint whatever picture you will. I'm not a rabid vanguard "fanboi", but you dont seem to paint the entire picture with anything you wrote. Yup... time is becoming an issue, and i'm curious what they can do in that time, but overall the base mechanics are wonderfully built and have room to be expanded upon exponentially down the road. I find people like you funny who just care about the current state of the game and fail to see the potential is has down the road. May not be the supreme product at release, but it certainly has the potential to be one down the road.

If you'll notice, near the top of that post I specifically stated that I don't necessarily think changing features/mechanics from what was originally planned is a bad thing. I posted what I believe people will be expecting and how they will probably be dissapointed with the final product. Also, your insinuations that I didn't keep up with dev posts is totally off-base.

If you notice, many of your rebuttals include the "in the future" defense. I stated in that post that many of the things I listed very well may change. My concern though is wondering why I should have any confidence in a company to change things for the better when they can't do it well the first time. Like I said, I'm done with the whole EQ2 system of sticking with a game hoping it gets better and I think that's a poor safety net for developers to fall back on. Eventually, people will stop hoping and go to a game that's ready.

[Zefah]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

I dont think this game is going to do well.

You are probably correct!

[darksensei]

I think one thing that people overlook when assessing how well this game will do, Station Access Pass. For whatever the joint price will be, you will get EQ1, EQ2, VG.

I'm sure there are plenty on this board wanting to try EQ2 with what they are hearing, as well as quite a few wanting to give EQ1 some casual time. Throw in Vanguard, and I think that it will at least get EQ2 subscription rates.

[Lyenae]

Originally Posted by darksensei

I think one thing that people overlook when assessing how well this game will do, Station Access Pass. For whatever the joint price will be, you will get EQ1, EQ2, VG.

I'm sure there are plenty on this board wanting to try EQ2 with what they are hearing, as well as quite a few wanting to give EQ1 some casual time. Throw in Vanguard, and I think that it will at least get EQ2 subscription rates.

EQ1/EQ2/VG are all non-casual MMO's. Unless you had both your legs blown off in Iraq and get some juicy government pension, you cannot "succeed" in more then one MMO at a time.