Lots of new Vanguard info released, plus videos & screenshots

[Grabbit Allworth]

Originally Posted by forge

Does Vanguard require you to build 50 wooden blocks before you can advance to building 1 wooden rectangle?

No.

[Itzena]

So what's this I hear about Brad laying down the law on the 'Lolz go bak to WoW, kiddi3z! This gaem is 2 hardcore 4 u" crowd on the beta boards?

[Dashal]

Edit:

guess it's a matter of perspective. It was more of a "this is how it is" and "if you dont like x, turn it off or dont do it" and "we're testing mechanics, stfu already"

Ok maybe not stfu... but I wish he'd said that heh.

I dont think it was aimed at any one group of people though. Although the "hardcore" group tends to dominate the VG boards in general, you get all sorts of players putting their 2 cents in . Too easy, too hard .. whatever.

[Soygen]

I think Itzena meant the dumbasses were saying "it's too hardcore for you", not Brad.

[Smurf]

edit ... yeah guess that is what he meant.

[Dashal]

Originally Posted by Soygen

I think Itzena meant the dumbasses were saying "it's too hardcore for you", not Brad.

Oh I see, I misread it. Let me edit above then =P

[Mithrull]

.

[Lonin]

Originally Posted by Itzena

So what's this I hear about Brad laying down the law on the 'Lolz go bak to WoW, kiddi3z! This gaem is 2 hardcore 4 u" crowd on the beta boards?

Not really.

Basically, after a few of the recent patches the game had taken quite a different direction than it had previously been thought to have been taking. This caused a lot of concerns on the beta boards and tons of people were posting their two cents. Brad, along with the other senior designers, decided to post up a sort of Vanguard manifesto (3 months from release, hah). The contents were pretty much summarized above, Sigil will make whatever changes they feel like, they are happy with the game, the Vision is still on-track, and the people that don't like it can go screw themselves. Other than that, it was a bunch of lame copouts and excuses as to why their game is going from a concept with a lot of promise to another mediocre clone. (And no, I don't mean "easy WoW clone.")

The bottom line is that Sigil ran out of time, money and talent and are trying to get the game out the door to make some profit so they can "fix" it after release. What's really going to be funny is when all of the rabid fanboys that aren't in beta finally get to play the game and realize that virtually none of the core mechanics of the game that they were looking forward to are in the game any longer.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Lonin

The bottom line is that Sigil ran out of time, money and talent and are trying to get the game out the door to make some profit so they can "fix" it after release. What's really going to be funny is when all of the rabid fanboys that aren't in beta finally get to play the game and realize that virtually none of the core mechanics of the game that they were looking forward to are in the game any longer.

While your statement is mostly true (especially time, money and definately talent) I have to disagree with the "virtually none of the core mechanics" part. Diplomacy as an example, is something thats been around a while, has been redone, enhanced, improved (if you are into that kind of shit) and will make it into release as a far as I know.

A more accurate statement (if you will allow me to fix)

"What's really going to be funny is when all of the rabid fanboys that aren't in beta finally get to play the game and realizethat the game is not very fun, the world is more empty then full, the combat is slow, the quests uninspired, the character models (especially animal races) are criminally bad, and in general, is a step backwards in terms of generation. Certainly not the next gen game they were promised.

Still three months left to go until release, and judging by the changes being made, this game is in nose-dive mode, despite what Brad may say.

[wamphyr]

Waiting for the "I told you so, beoches" posts.

[Slick Willey]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

A more accurate statement (if you will allow me to fix)

"What's really going to be funny is when all of the rabid fanboys that aren't in beta finally get to play the game and realizethat the game is not very fun, the world is more empty then full, the combat is slow, the quests uninspired, the character models (especially animal races) are criminally bad, and in general, is a step backwards in terms of generation. Certainly not the next gen game they were promised.

Pretty much the case -- except I have heard they recently re-did some of the animal races (if not all), and I've heard good things about them.

P.S. The part about the "out of time, money, etc." and we need to release the game to get subscription money to continue fixing stuff is definitely true.

[Dashal]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

While your statement is mostly true (especially time, money and definately talent) I have to disagree with the "virtually none of the core mechanics" part. Diplomacy as an example, is something thats been around a while, has been redone, enhanced, improved (if you are into that kind of shit) and will make it into release as a far as I know.

A more accurate statement (if you will allow me to fix)

"What's really going to be funny is when all of the rabid fanboys that aren't in beta finally get to play the game and realizethat the game is not very fun, the world is more empty then full, the combat is slow, the quests uninspired, the character models (especially animal races) are criminally bad, and in general, is a step backwards in terms of generation. Certainly not the next gen game they were promised.

Still three months left to go until release, and judging by the changes being made, this game is in nose-dive mode, despite what Brad may say.

I will just say I disagree with this. I'll say more post NDA I suppose.

[Aegorian]

Originally Posted by Dashal

I will just say I disagree with this. I'll say more post NDA I suppose.

same here... i'll bite my tongue until i'm allowed to say stuff. It's not the messiah of MMO gaming, but it's definitely better than a lot of games out there.

[Laerazi]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

While your statement is mostly true (especially time, money and definately talent) I have to disagree with the "virtually none of the core mechanics" part. Diplomacy as an example, is something thats been around a while, has been redone, enhanced, improved (if you are into that kind of shit) and will make it into release as a far as I know.

A more accurate statement (if you will allow me to fix)

"What's really going to be funny is when all of the rabid fanboys that aren't in beta finally get to play the game and realizethat the game is not very fun, the world is more empty then full, the combat is slow, the quests uninspired, the character models (especially animal races) are criminally bad, and in general, is a step backwards in terms of generation. Certainly not the next gen game they were promised.

Still three months left to go until release, and judging by the changes being made, this game is in nose-dive mode, despite what Brad may say.

I'm going to entirely disagree with this; and to anyone who takes this with a grain of salt, I suggest you read any of Hiram's previous posts regarding Vanguard and his affinity towards bashing it.

The game is going to be solid by release; not "OMGWTF NEXTGEN", but great nonetheless. All features promised by release are going to be in the game, only you'll see some evolve even further post release (no secret there, unless you're completely ignorant). That is all.

[Lost Ranger]

"Release the game early to make money so we can continue work on the final product" seems to be the motto for just about every MMO ever created. It has certain degrees but far as I can tell they are all guilty of this in some way. Far as I am concerned the tactic is fine so long as the launched product has enough too do and have "fun" with that I dont feel I am paying (insert company here) to beta test their game. Warcraft was lite in the content department when they released it and could of used more time in production but what they released was great... so no harm done. On the flip side EQ2 was pure shit and paying them to 'fix' their product left a sour taste in my mouth.

If Vanguard released with enough to do and enjoy for a few months I dont see the problem with them taking box sale profit and continuing to finish what they started. So long as they dont do the "omg look at all the free content we are giving you!!!!!!!!" when they do something like release Berserkers. Which is something that has always annoyed me about other companies. Not 'everything' needs a PR spin put on it people.. its ok to say "sorry it took us longer then expected to finish this... but its here now so enjoy!".

If the game is decent at release I wont lose any sleep at night knowing my money is going to make the game better. I mean if EQ2 can go from being complete shit at release to a good game I have faith that any game can redeem itself and end up being worth the monthly sub.