Lots of new Vanguard info released, plus videos & screenshots

[Ingmar]

Originally Posted by glue

Theres a huge difference in quality between the best strad and the worst strad, and there is significant variation between each strad

and this guy is the absolute pinnacle of his craft

every crafted item is unique

The idea that he discarded thousands upon thousands of violins is pretty ridiculous. The best estimate is that he made about 1200 instruments all told, and while those were of mixed quality, the ratio of usable and unusable instruments would be nothing like the DAOC crafting system. It takes a long time to make a violin by hand, and if he had to toss 90% of his output because it wouldn't sell, he never would have stayed in business long enough to become famous. The DAOC model is horrible.

[Hateyou]

I think for crafting it would be neat if for example to make a "Death Sword" you needed "A piece of wood" and "A hunk of metal". To make a "Death Sword+1" you needed a "Piece of Wood+1" and "A hunk of metal+1" and so on.

Instead of failing the combine and everything poofing, you might fail and your "Hunk of metal+9" became a "Hunk of metal+8" and so on. You could control where every thing drops, like +10 materials in raids, +1 materials from noobie trash mobs.

You could even add to that maybe and make a 'crafting' class that can improve the material level. If they fail at improving it, it could degrade the material even more or something.

I'm not in to crafting generally, because it's always so poorly done and tedious, with not enough reward. Obviously the names I used were just for examples, and they should be more creative~

[Tolanin]

Vanguards model prolly reflects reality pretty well.. better than anything else thats suposed to be like medieval crafting... whether this will translate into a good craft system is gonna depend on their implementation of other shit and balance between craft/quest/raid loot quality.

[gnomad]

Originally Posted by Tolanin

Vanguards model prolly reflects reality pretty well.. better than anything else thats suposed to be like medieval crafting... whether this will translate into a good craft system is gonna depend on their implementation of other shit and balance between craft/quest/raid loot quality.

So let me get this right.....crafters of old put on their tree fighting armor and entered combat with a tree to acquire wood then changed to their crafting armor to fight their saws, hammers, etc?

Wow was I taught a load of crap when I was in school, nice to see it was all wrong. Thanks for correcting years of misconceptions.

Wonder if you will be able to die while crafting a chair in Vanguard like you could in EQ2?

[Cantatus]

Wow, we're finally discussing tradeskills, and I nearly missed it!

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

I dislike failure combines greatly. Fuck that, "oops, rolled a 1" bullshit. But this isn't a bad compromise. You have your comfort zone area of crafting skill where you don't fail but you can try things beyond your ability with an increasing risk.

The only problem I see is the natural inclusion of super hard recipes that you'll always risk failure on but yield uber loot which basically then doesn't change anything. It effectively becomes EQ1s system where you skill up on garbage and always might fail something you care about.

Rather not have failure at all. The difficulty should be in obtaining the items. Getting everything together and hoping the RNG doesn't fuck you isn't epic, doesn't add to difficulty, and just isn't fun to begin with.

Having the difficulty be on getting the components rather than on making the item makes it so tradeskillers spend most of their time gathering rather than crafting. The tradeskillers I know generally view the gathering as being the tedious thing. We'd rather be at the forge making stuff.

However, the problem with the "failure" aspect of tradeskills is that many MMOGs leave it up to a dice roll. In EverQuest, it was pressing a combine button and crossing my fingers. To me, that's the same thing as entering a dungeon and having the boss mob have a random chance of casting a zonewide death touch with no way of negating it. It takes it out of your hand and makes there be no skill.

EverQuest 2 does this a little better by making you use your various crafting abilities to try to make a "Pristine" item. Failure isn't losing everything you worked for, but potentially not making an item as good as you wanted, not to mention that you get less exp on the lower ranks.

The problem with EQ2's system, of course, is that it's just horribly tedious. I honestly prefer EQ's system to EQ2's. Sure, I potentially lost everything I worked for, but at least it wasn't so time consuming and boring. EQ2's system requires no thought. It's just pushing the skills that keep your durability high, while watching out of the corner of your eye for the events. I've taken to bringing my portable DVD player next to my monitor so I can watch movies while I grind out tradeskills. Makes it far less annoying.

I think other developers just need to expand on what EQ2 did for their tradeskills. EQ2 laid good groundwork, but then more or less left out a lot of the fun and challenge. I should be able to get drops from mobs for tradeskills rather than just picking them all off nodes, for example. Not sure how Vanguard's tradeskills work, but hopefully it's something along those lines.

[Greyform]

Originally Posted by gnomad

So let me get this right.....crafters of old put on their tree fighting armor and entered combat with a tree to acquire wood then changed to their crafting armor to fight their saws, hammers, etc?

Wow was I taught a load of crap when I was in school, nice to see it was all wrong. Thanks for correcting years of misconceptions.

Wonder if you will be able to die while crafting a chair in Vanguard like you could in EQ2?

I think the misconception you have is that this a fantasy game not “the old” of any real place or time. Warriors and wizards of old did not put on the uber breast plate of +100 STR and +100 STA that bumped their life points up to the magic 10K mark or Robe of serious bad ass DOTs that do 500 hp per tick to take on the 100’ dragon with a sword a staff and a bunch of buddies with their plus to badass stats on their own armor as well.

What was I saying again lol I think the Ambien kicked in hehe but I did have a point somewhere in here…..


Oh yeah…. Would make sense to don your “lets get it on” gear for a fight but that gear probably is not going to help much when your trying to thread a needle or forging metal.

So since we are already assuming fantasy it would make sense that the gear you use to earn youf living with would be as functional as the gear you plan to save your bacon in.



The children of Vanguard have been taught the extremely advance skill of the “QUICK CHANGE” since birth.

Personally I plan to grab a few of those + speed stones from Diablo and carry those around with me too.

[AladainAF]

I dislike failure combines greatly. Fuck that, "oops, rolled a 1" bullshit. But this isn't a bad compromise.

I like what Star Ocean: Till the end of time did in their little item creation system.

You could take a basic item, and add enhancements on them. This cost a fair amount of money, but it varied on the base item you were enhancing. The more enhancements on the item the more it would cost to add another (i.e. 100g for the first, 500g for 2nd, etc) up to 8 maximum. Thing was, you always had a chance to screw up and add a potentially catastropic effect to your item, such as character exp earned -90%. In order to take off the failure, it would also cost you money as if you were adding an additional slot and the amount of attempts you've successfully or failed followed the item. Your chances of these failures went down the higher your skill. Also, some of the super uber effects could only come out on the 7th or 8th slot.

For example, if I took a stick, and attempted to add a big AC boost on it, I could fail 5 times, and succeed once - costing me say 100g/500g/1000g/2000g/5000g for failures and 12500g for finally getting it right. The next time I attempt to add an effect to this item, it would cost me 30000g. However, if I had a good skill to start with and added the AC boost on the first attempt, the next effect would have only cost me 500g.

I always thought that system was a good one for compromising on failures.

[Rythonn]

Originally Posted by gnomad

So let me get this right.....crafters of old put on their tree fighting armor and entered combat with a tree to acquire wood then changed to their crafting armor to fight their saws, hammers, etc?

While previous fantasy stories don't have magical crafting cloths and harvesting clothes, they do have magical smithing hammers(hi2udiablo2) and special anvils(think forged in the depths of blahblahblah) so what is the harm in taking it a step further?

[Daelos]

Originally Posted by gnomad

So let me get this right.....crafters of old put on their tree fighting armor

If you mean that lumberjacks might don different attire than fighters in an army, then yes that is entirely correct. I don't know if they called it armor. VG doesn't call it armor. (You are the only one calling it armor, but hey, whatever floats your boat)

Wow was I taught a load of crap when I was in school, nice to see it was all wrong. Thanks for correcting years of misconceptions.

You are very welcome, it always feels good to teach people something new.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Real life analogies always make sense when you use them to describe video games! amirite?!?

[Lyenae]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Real life analogies always make sense when you use them to describe video games! amirite?!?

Real life RPG analogies work. If something wouldn't make any fucking sense tabletop, it shouldn't make any sense in a computer RPG.

[Zehn - Vhex]

...

You're retarded right?

[Laerazi]

Originally Posted by gnomad

So let me get this right.....crafters of old put on their tree fighting armor and entered combat with a tree to acquire wood then changed to their crafting armor to fight their saws, hammers, etc?

Wow was I taught a load of crap when I was in school, nice to see it was all wrong. Thanks for correcting years of misconceptions.

Wonder if you will be able to die while crafting a chair in Vanguard like you could in EQ2?

Good job at describing harvesting/crafting during Beta 1... you might want to learn what's going on in the current build before throwing around that idiotic/baseless sarcasm of yours.

[glue]

Originally Posted by gnomad

So let me get this right.....crafters of old put on their tree fighting armor and entered combat with a tree to acquire wood then changed to their crafting armor to fight their saws, hammers, etc?

Wow was I taught a load of crap when I was in school, nice to see it was all wrong. Thanks for correcting years of misconceptions.

Wonder if you will be able to die while crafting a chair in Vanguard like you could in EQ2?

What payoff do you get out of being a dickhead?

I mean, why put the most negative and biased spin on something that is far more advanced than most of it's peers?

You could have said

crafters of old put on their plaid shirts, toolbelts, and lumberjack gear and approached a tree to cut it down then changed to their woodworking clothes, toolbelt, put on their glasses and went to their sawhorse to struggle with their saws, hammers, etc in order to make something out of wood

i cant believe you'd try to spin the most realistic MMO crafting system as something that is unrealistic by using shitty unrealistic words to describe what happens

get a life

[forge]

Does Vanguard require you to build 50 wooden blocks before you can advance to building 1 wooden rectangle?