Lots of new Vanguard info released, plus videos & screenshots

[Lost Ranger]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

I don't see what the fuss about Grabbit's post is. It's not like there's any information there. It's a Brad post essentially. "IT ALL LOOKS FANTASTIC AND WONDERFUL AND HAS GREAT POTENTIAL." Thanks info.

Carry on.

Umm... Because its not someone from Sigil saying it for one. You cant really trust Brad when he comes here screaming Vanguards praises now can you? If he was saying "the game is alright I guess... needs work" then we REALLY have a problem dont we hehe.

Also we have someone who is really testing the game out giving his opinion of it. Not the hordes of people here who either dont know a damn thing or claim all their information is legit but just comes from "sources" or the ever popular "notes" that a few seem to have. So seeing someone who was a good contribution to the high end MMO community back in EQ1 giving his thoughts tends to hold more value behind it then Joe_hater03 who finds every excuse he can to belittle Vanguard.

Id put the same value behind a not so nice Vanguard review if the source was worth a damn. I get tired of people claiming they heard from a friend who has a friend that is married to someone that has a friend whos brother's son is in beta and the game is horrible! I also get tired of people who claimed to have been in beta like a year ago... but havnt played it since but still act like they are in the loop on things. Get the idea? Its all about the source of the review. Brad's review on Vanguard = worthless. Old school high end EQ player who contributed to the community to make it better = has some value.

Though I do understand that unless its a bad review alot of people around here dont give it any merit at all. After all the only people who could like Vanguard are getting paid to say so

[Zehn - Vhex]

Except it's totally devoid of substance? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy empty hype as much as the next guy. Or maybe you'd like me to start posting about my 'friends' experiences with the game and how my 'friend' allowed me to play the game all the way to max level and my experiences thus?

[Lost Ranger]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Except it's totally devoid of substance? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy empty hype as much as the next guy. Or maybe you'd like me to start posting about my 'friends' experiences with the game and how my 'friend' allowed me to play the game all the way to max level and my experiences thus?

Sure. I prefer to hear tidbits from people who have honestly played it, good or bad. Like I said before I dont care if the reviews suck or not just as long as the person posting them has first hand experience and not just taking some 'friends' word for it... or even just making it up.

[Cadrid]

Originally Posted by Tolanin

would be so nice if some game actually came up with cool dismount and mount summon animations... why is playing my ocarina to summon epona and actually having the horse spawn and run to you in zelda the best mount summon in like any rpg to date?

There are certainly ways to implement "realistic" mount summoning in an MMO without messing with the mechanics. For example, the mount spawns within a casting area (picture the player as the epicenter of a circle, and the position of the mount spawn at a randomly generated radius behind the player) and gradually fade in as it comes closer to the player until the player does an automatic jump animation while their mount charges beneath them and they land on its back.

Perhaps it's due to laziness, maybe lack of time, or it might be infeasible, but I'd agree there does seem to be a solid excuse as to why this kind of "immersion" hasn't been implemented in an MMORPG to date.

[Dashal]

Originally Posted by Laerazi

As cool as that sounds, you're imagining it much cooler than it will actually be implemented. Shooting a guy off of his mount probably means, when you're hit with that spell your mount just poofs out from under you and you lose your speed buff. You aren't going to see your character animate being thrown off of the horse and landing on the ground in a painful position.

You're probably right but I hope you're wrong. Even shooting a dude out of the sky... if the mount poofs and you fall that'd still be damn funny.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

No fucktard.

As someone who used to be a hardcore Warhammer miniature painter, it is and was common to take any model and lightly 'dry brush' (a dusting of a color that tended to cling to raised surfaces) with brown to add realism.

Structures got a similar treatment, but the dry brush color might have been different depending on the type of material composing the structure. A metal structure might have been given a reddish coppery rust dry brush.

Everything brand new, with no sign of wear, destroys believability. Statues are worn down by acid rain, metal rusts, and people/clothes get dirty.

Shiny/clean is just fake.

Is it me or is there something wrong with calling miniature painting of any form hardcore?

[rinthea]

Originally Posted by Dashal

You're probably right but I hope you're wrong. Even shooting a dude out of the sky... if the mount poofs and you fall that'd still be damn funny.

Yeah that would be neat. Reminds me of mind controlling people into the lava at black rock mountain.

[Grabbit Allworth]

Brad,

I've always really been in to trade skills in whatever MMO I've played, but they've always lacked something.

First, the crafter should have the ability to customize (to a degree) what he or she is crafting. What I am truly looking for is probably not within the reach of what VG is aiming for, but I think a system robust enough to allow a crafter to name (with a ridiculous filter), distribute a portion of the stats, shape, color, texture, etc is.

How difficult would it be to give the players a database to make these selections from? Each tier of item could open more intricate/cool designs. You could even restrict items made from certain races/materials to represent said cultures.

Such freedom would go a long long way in making the trade skills more fun and attractive.

Second, the quality of crafted items is always something under serious debate. One side feels they should be able to make raid level items. While the other side feels that's ridiculous, and undermines one aspect of raiding.

I'd like to see a compromise. Give max level crafters the ability to create "masterpieces". With masterpiece items being a level of item that is at least equal to current end game raid loot. Ideally even a step further. Masterpiece items should be something truly powerful and useful.

I'd like to see an additional tier of masterwork recipes instead of just improving upon an existing upper level recipe, but I understand that it would be additional work.

After all, who's making all of these powerfully enchanted items that we're finding on Gods, Dragons, Demons, and in their respective treasure hordes? Wizards of old? OK, but we should be able to make our own legends =P

Draw the players in. Give him the power to create something awe inspiring, but keep it on a tight leash.

Seem unbalanced? Keep reading.

To regulate the flow of these times of items you could impose several restrictions.

A. Give "master piece" crafting an extremely long cool down. Say 30 real life days. The reasoning being that it takes so much of the crafter they cannot reproduce such a feat without rest, research, etc. In addition, the ability to "Master craft" should require a series of difficult quests such as constructing a quill plucked from an angels wing then electrified by the breath of a blue dragon..... so that not every "300 crafter" (WoW example) has a chance to out an EPIC+ item every 30 days.

Only those who are truly dedicated to their skill should be rewarded with such an ability.

B. Material requirements. In addition to a long cool down a crafter would need to gather the fantastical materials needed for his work. The materials should be rare enough or difficult enough to obtain that he or she may not have gathered the components needed for his next masterpiece even when his cool down expires.

C. Restrict each account to having one master crafter at any time. You could abandon your specialty with your primary character and then pick up another (doing all the questing over) with a different character, but at no time would two characters of the same account have the MC ability. This would purely be a method in controlling the rate which these items entered the world and helping to preserve the mystique associated with them.

D. Combine failure - I'm on the fence with this one. Failing to produce the item you've spent the last month(s) preparing for could be and would be a MASSIVE source of frustration for player, but assuming the quality of masterpiece items was high enough I feel that most players would understand that success can never be guaranteed. Especially for a masterpiece. To compromise, a failed masterpiece could yield an item from the tier just under masterwork items. That way, players still get something valuable and/or useful for their time and effort.


I've rambled long enough so I'd just like to say this,

If raid size and the rate at which loot is obtained for VG is even remotely similar to WoW or EQ1/2. Guilds of 40 or 50 people are going to obtain hundreds of items a month. The ability to master craft won't likely have any significant impact on the economy or the power of the players (assuming the system was well designed) but it would certainly add a lot of interesting aspects to those who enjoy crafting. The ability to craft masterpieces would also help enrich the community and produce individuals everyone "knows" for his or her crafting skill.

[Kaxmax]

In regards to "masterpiece" items, I always thought DAoC had a pretty cool system. Crafted items were given a rating when created that was random dependant on skill, 100% being the best and quite rare. This percentage determined how much you could spellcraft (add stats, another trade skill) onto the item.

So you had a market for the higher percentages, like 97%-99%, and then 100% items sold for a much higher premium.

[Malakie Torsade]

Originally Posted by Grabbit Allworth

stuff

I agree with pretty much all of this. A few notes, just because I like to talk about the perfect crafting system that we'll never see.

First, the crafter should have the ability to customize (to a degree) what he or she is crafting. What I am truly looking for is probably not within the reach of what VG is aiming for, but I think a system robust enough to allow a crafter to name (with a ridiculous filter), distribute a portion of the stats, shape, color, texture, etc is.

You could name your items in SW:G. I never tried to name my items anything offensive so I don't know if there was a filter involved. Anyway, it was a nice touch, though I don't think most people used it. However, during beta when I was making guns, I would name them based on stats of the final weapon. For example, if I had a Rifle that did the lowest damage, it was "Rifle MK1," if it was in the 2nd "tier" (self-defined,) it was "Rifle MK2," etc.

In any event, all items you make should definitely have your name on them and be visible if someone inspects it.

able to make raid level items.

You can also make this a 2 way street. Make it so that the uber items require mats only obtained from deep in the dragon's lair, or can only be created in the deep, dwarven forges. This would also encourage even raiding guilds to recruit players for their guild/town just for crafting.

Restrict each account to having one master crafter at any time.

YES YES YES. People will nut up when I say this, but Single Character Servers was one of the bests thing to happens to crafters in SW:G. However, I think most would hate the 1 master crafter rule, and I feel safe to say that the vast majority hate SCS (though I admit I can't blame them.) I wouldn't hold my breathe for either system to go into place on any MMO in the near future.

Combine failure

Absolutely not. Losing everything on combine failure was one of the most retarded aspects of EQ tradeskilling. Failing and losing the final product should only be a consideration if actual player skill is involved in the making of the item (ie, click in the right spot at the right time, moving the cursor in an exact pattern, etc.) Even failing and getting a lesser item in your "Masterpiece" would be unacceptable with a 30 RL day cooldown + insane mats.

Anywho, I'd love to go on for paragraphs about Tradeskilling in general, but since it's just a VG thread, I won't. But if someone does happen to make a Tradeskill thread...

[glue]

The solution to crafting epic items has been around since at least 1996 in The Realm Online

what you do is start with a basic sword and then slowly add enhancements to it, however everytime you add something there is a chance of failure or that the item will be destroyed.

If you want an item equal to uber raid loot you can do it, but it will cost you loads of dough and realistically you'll have to get lucky or do many many constructions over and over before you make something that doesn't get destroyed.

In the end you can ensure it takes a similar level of challenge/work/risk to make epic crafted items as it does to get them on raids.

There is nothing like just having enchanted an Uber Sword of Pwnage 5x and to know there is a 97% chance the sword will be destroyed if you try again. But you want that 6x. That is the most straightforward way to make crafting uber items costly

[Dildo Faggins]

Combine failure is a-ok in my book if its some noob crafter attempting something above their skill. Its realistic, and reasonable. They are gonna mess up and ruin the piece. A master craftsman though, failing horribly and losing the pieces? Thats just stupid. Maybe they may not have the 'perfect' piece every time, a nail may get bent or something, but they arent gonna lose anything of value.

[Arbitrary]

Originally Posted by Dildo Faggins

Combine failure is a-ok in my book if its some noob crafter attempting something above their skill. Its realistic, and reasonable. They are gonna mess up and ruin the piece. A master craftsman though, failing horribly and losing the pieces? Thats just stupid. Maybe they may not have the 'perfect' piece every time, a nail may get bent or something, but they arent gonna lose anything of value.

I dislike failure combines greatly. Fuck that, "oops, rolled a 1" bullshit. But this isn't a bad compromise. You have your comfort zone area of crafting skill where you don't fail but you can try things beyond your ability with an increasing risk.

The only problem I see is the natural inclusion of super hard recipes that you'll always risk failure on but yield uber loot which basically then doesn't change anything. It effectively becomes EQ1s system where you skill up on garbage and always might fail something you care about.

Rather not have failure at all. The difficulty should be in obtaining the items. Getting everything together and hoping the RNG doesn't fuck you isn't epic, doesn't add to difficulty, and just isn't fun to begin with.

[Wizerud]

Originally Posted by vurt

Most of the time you see someone calling someone else a shill, they're either trolling, joking, or just being a faggot.

Grabbit's opinion is obviously worthwhile.

Or they are being a shill of a competitor.

[Wizerud]

Originally Posted by Laerazi

As cool as that sounds, you're imagining it much cooler than it will actually be implemented. Shooting a guy off of his mount probably means, when you're hit with that spell your mount just poofs out from under you and you lose your speed buff. You aren't going to see your character animate being thrown off of the horse and landing on the ground in a painful position.

Although it would be great to actually see a guy get shot off of his horse, not everyone needs the animation to fill in the blank.