CC nerf in Arena and Battlegrounds in TBC...

[Senen]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

If you are stupid enough to get CC'd with no personal counters or allies to counter it, you made the choice to watch PvP.

CC adds dimension to the game. Without it, PvP becomes a stupid hackfest pre-determined by the tier of their gear, and who smacks their hotkeys the fastest.

The same could be said for how CC effects the outcome of 99% of the fights 1 vs 1 or grp vs grp CC have to great of an effect on pvp and its not skill its the matter of playing a class with an I win button. I'm just glad Blizz has in short figured this out. Oh and you quoted Daoc as having CC abilities I'm not sure when you played but back during the origional first 6 months of the game Midguard was able to stunlock mass grps and just mow them down with little to no resistance. That was changed to have diminishing returns to eliminate the very thing thats happening in WoW big suprise there hu ? There is never a viable argument that incapacitating your oponent then killing them with out so much as a fight is a fair ballanced pvp match, what there working towards now just might achieve that. Then you can clame to actualy have skill beyond fear/polymorph spam, because I know there are plenty of skilled mage/lock/priest out there that don't even use those mechanics and win.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Cad

So not only will we barely have enough mana to kill a warrior since our arena gear has very little int and everyone is going to have 10k+ HP, but we won't be able to sheep his priest for more than 5 seconds to do it?

You melee fucktards can act like casters overreact, but do you realize that most of the time sheep doesn't even last long enough for us to run to full range, nevermind hamstring lasting longer than sheep, crippling poison lasting longer than sheep, wing clip lasting longer than sheep most of the time...

I can't speak for warlocks with fear because I don't play one, but mages live and die against melees by crowd control, snares, and roots. Shorten these without compensating by upping damage, and there will be absolutely no point in playing these classes any longer.

I've been Pyroblasted for 7,000 damage in the CURRENT state of the game. AP, trinket, PoM Pyroblast: ~4200 front end crit, 1700 Ignite, 1,000 damage residual DoT. It will be infinitely worse in the expansion when EVERY PvP Mage is 41 Arcane because of how overpowered that tree is.

Arcane Power and Presence of Mind are supposed to be balanced by the cooldown, but in an arena PvP system they'll will always be available. They'll cool down while you're in the queue for the next match. 2v2 and 3v3 arena will be completely ruled by Mages because there is absolutely no counter to two Mages AP PoM Pyroblasting the same target from 40 yards away at the outset. That person will just die and now it's 2v1.

Arcane Potency and Impact means one spell in five either stuns you or gives the Mage a free crit. Either way, you're dead.

Slow is just retarded. That skill turns Hunters from a fair fight into an absolute slaughter because you can just Fire Blast/CoC/Arcane Explosion them to death in their dead zone and there's precisely shit-all they can do about it, other than praying for an Improved Wing Clip proc. It also turns Warriors and Rogues into free HKs. Right now, Warriors are already free HKs if you spec into Ice. That's kind of balanced because Ice sucks against other classes and doesn't scale up as well as Fire. Slow gives you the free win against melee while still giving you insane burst damage against the classes where it matters.

41 Arcane/20 Ice Mages aren't bad off either. That gives you Shatter, which means Ice Lance, a 1.5 sec cast spell, is hitting for 4k almost every time on Frozen targets. That requires 1,000 spell power but that's pretty reasonable since the Arcane tree gives you 150-200 for free and your trinket gives you another 200. With Arcane Power up, it's over 5000 damage.

All this plus the addition of Invisibility as yet ANOTHER instant-cast "escape the DPS" skill for Mages means you have NOTHING to complain about. Every class in the game except Paladins and Warlocks are a free kill in 1v1, and, unlike Warlocks, Mages get BETTER in groups, not worse.

[unregisteredperson]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

If you are stupid enough to get CC'd with no personal counters or allies to counter it, you made the choice to watch PvP.

CC adds dimension to the game. Without it, PvP becomes a stupid hackfest pre-determined by the tier of their gear, and who smacks their hotkeys the fastest.

CC in itself is not enjoyable though, neither for the person who just turned their enemy into a target dummy or for the person who just totally lost control of their character. If you remove CC and pvp becomes a spam fest determined by gear, then that just makes wow a crappy pvp game masked behind crappy CC dependant mechanics. By upping players endurance and reducing the length and thus viability of fully incapacitating CCing, they'll atleast have a basis on which to create a reactionary pvp system where emphasis is placed on reacting to a players actions in according ways rather than simply totally incapacitating them on sight.

[Cad]

Wow.. you mean.. if I AP PoM pyroblast you, I can get one good hit off every 3 minutes?

Amazing. I had no idea mages were so overpowered. Carry on.

[Arbitrary]

At least everybody seems to be unhappy.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Cad

Wow.. you mean.. if I AP PoM pyroblast you, I can get one good hit off every 3 minutes?

Amazing. I had no idea mages were so overpowered. Carry on.

Did you even read it? It's not a problem now. It is when PvP is done in an arena system and it's available in every fight, because it cools down while you're in the queue.

[Nakilos]

Wow.. you mean.. if I AP PoM pyroblast you, I can get one good hit off every 3 minutes?

The non 3 minute mages are still rough in PVP. AP builds are basically the tardling mage build, any well played mage is still real rough in PVP right now and there aren't many counters to them, because they have counters for most crappy situations. Get pummeled? It isn't like you don't have 2 other trees. Stunned? Blink is always good. Frost Nova is never not good either, and Counterspell certainly gets plenty of use.

Really they have the least to complain about, and I absolutely can predict the outcome of most arena matches. He who hath the most mages win. Why bother being or bringing any other class.

[Xequecal]

Why is Arcane Power in the game at all anyway? It has basically no PvE use at all, it only serves to unbalance the crap out of PvP.

[Cad]

Honestly I couldn't care less if they did remove arcane power, all it serves to do is get mages nerfed by the cries of people who don't realize how badly AP mages suck when AP isn't active.

Mages are decently strong in PvP, I won't deny. They do have some key problems - not being able to cast your spells with anything hitting you, and in order to do high dps, you have to be able to cast your spells. Which means we're either suiciding (AoE'ing) , or we're vulnerable artillery. With CC getting nerfed further, AP might actually be the only good spec since it's not like we'll ever get range again. Just blow some people up and wait the cooldown out to enter the arena again.

[Nikkohung You]

meh my group plays as a team and uses ventrilo, and we dont play any other way. I really dont see the problem with how things are now, sometimes your the bug sometimes your the windshield really.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by theawddone

Being a warrior, I think this change is a needed one... tired of spending half a fight polymorphed because my priest got assist trained and no one could dispel me...

I find this statement hilarious just for the sheer irony of it. If CC wasn't gimped to all hell to begin with, that priest might have lived longer then 2 seconds? Thanks fear breaking if you get caught in a gentle breeze.

Which, I think and hope, was the intent of the post to begin with. <3

[Yermum Onceme]

If you want to argue that presence of mind, arcane power, etc are always up, why not argue that a flame reflector is always going to be up?

Short of using my brother's shadow priest to throw people off the lumber mill, I found reflecting fire mage's shit one of the most enjoyable aspects of pvp. Oh and no, having engineering should not be that difficult to pull off if you're a serious pvper.

Too many people here are crying about class balance in the arena before they've even seen the new classes OR the new arena. What the fuck.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Yermum Onceme

If you want to argue that presence of mind, arcane power, etc are always up, why not argue that a flame reflector is always going to be up?

Short of using my brother's shadow priest to throw people off the lumber mill, I found reflecting fire mage's shit one of the most enjoyable aspects of pvp. Oh and no, having engineering should not be that difficult to pull off if you're a serious pvper.

Too many people here are crying about class balance in the arena before they've even seen the new classes OR the new arena. What the fuck.

No, you're right, the Flame Reflector works. It will be up in every fight, and since the Pyroblasts take time to reach you you'll have a chance to activate it after they're cast but before they hit you. It's still a monumentally stupid PvP system.

We've seen ALL the new talents and all the new spells. The only thing we haven't seen is the new ranks of the non-talented spells. Beyond that, the main thing we don't know is what the new gear will be like. However, the current trend in gear is to upgrade damage much faster than survivability is upgraded.

[Valos]

Originally Posted by Yermum Onceme

why not argue that a flame reflector is always going to be up?

I was pretty sure they were going to disable those from arena. Class abilities would work, as would talents providing they had less then a 15 minute cooldown, or 10. Honestly can't remember which of the two cooldowns they said they were going with, but nothing is set in stone either.

[Jagels]

Hell, at this rate why not just make it so when you enter the arena WoW fires up steam and joins you into a game of CS with your opponents.