CC nerf in Arena and Battlegrounds in TBC...

[xilsharn]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

skill

lol

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by xilsharn

lol

Yeah just like it was "skill" when you stacked 12-15 mages in your preformed AV group back in the day.

And thats all thses PvP arena fights would boil down to, stacking the right mix of classes which nobody had a chance of beating.

This levels the playing field so that everyone has a chance to beat everyone, no matter what group makeup you have.

And either way, CC for 5-10 seconds is still a fucking lifetime in woW PvP.

[xilsharn]

That's basically what happens in BG anyway. Alliance so utterly outgears Horde in our battlegroup it's not even funny. And I'm sure game-wide it's the same story. We are routinely seeing warriors with 5 or 6 of 8 pieces of tier 3 armor and ridiculous weapons. Stack that warrior with 4 paladins five priests and a mix of five hunters/warlocks/mages and you have a pretty damn invincible team. It's not about skill, it's just gear level. At least what I've seen in my server's HWL grind team.

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by xilsharn

That's basically what happens in BG anyway. Alliance so utterly outgears Horde in our battlegroup it's not even funny. And I'm sure game-wide it's the same story. We are routinely seeing warriors with 5 or 6 of 8 pieces of tier 3 armor and ridiculous weapons. Stack that warrior with 4 paladins five priests and a mix of five hunters/warlocks/mages and you have a pretty damn invincible team. It's not about skill, it's just gear level. At least what I've seen in my server's HWL grind team.

LOL, speaking froma PuG's point of view, I see things a bit diffrently. I run into a premade Ally team maybe 2 out of 10 AB. the rest the Horde crushes the Ally PuGs like were a frickem premade. And some of the premades we even beat, because I think 1/2 of them are formed in thinking that horde would just fold at the sight of seeing 15 names from the same server.

Just last night I ran 10 ABs before I went to bed and Horde won 8 of those.

So I dont really see this "disparity" your taking about. There isnt that many premade PvP groups in tier 3 , because guilds like that usually soend 90% of their time PvEing for the ext epic. am I saying groups like you describe dont exist? No, Ive ran into them. But they are so rare that , really, it does not make a diffrence.

[unregisteredperson]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

So where the fuck are you coming up with the idea that no CC = decent PvP?

Originally Posted by unregisteredperson

It was always completely retarded that people could be insta gibbed without any chance to effect the outcome of a battle or left for the most part without control of their character during a battle.

I thought I made it pretty clear where my idea came from, but prehaps I am in the minority here and most people prefer to watch pvp rather than participate in it.

And CC nerfs doesn't = no CC, again, exactly what my problem is with CC is outlined above, put simply, in WOW pvp people spend too much time not in control of their character.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Leadsalad

If you remove Polymorph from mages then they lose most 1 vs 1 advantage they had.

Even if this were true .. your point is? This is 2v2, 3v3, etc. Not 1v1. No one gives a flying fuck about 1v1. If you are trying to make assumptions around class balance and even consider 1v1 you are wrong. You could be autowin vs everyone else 1v1 but auto-loss in a 2v2 situation and, guess what, you won't be worth shit in arena pvp.

They're already negated in everything they do to gain range by a single dispelling class,

#1: You can't dispel blink. Last time I checked that's a mighty handy tool to gain distance with.
#2: Why do you NEED range? Obviously it is going to help you deal damage against rogues and warriors, but shamans and paladins have slot as hell swing times and you try to stay CLOSE to hunters. CoC, FB, AE, and AM all don't matter for shit if you're in range or not. You won't be casting many frostbolts or fireballs in arena where battles are 13 seconds in duration.

Now compare that to my class where the overwhelming majority of my dps if I'm not at range is autoattack with 64 strength. At range I need to be standing still for extended periods to do anything but serpent and arcane.

The class is not worthless in pvp. Never have said it never will. But in an arena environment, where its only reliable burst damage and healing, I have no place. TBC cannot change that unless we get 0 minimum range. I simply cannot deal damage in a group situation where the opposition is smart enough to run towards me.

and you're the fucking retard crying that you cannot gain range with WINGCLIP AN UNDISPELLABLE SNARE and Concussion shot.

Conc shot requires I already have range; it doesn't help me get it. Wing Clip is a great ability, but I'm not going to be able to gain range if I'm snared too, which every single class but paladins and warlocks can. But you are right. If I try hard enough I CAN get range on you. But by that point you've already taken away 60% of my health, and 50% of my teammate's. In that time, how much damage have I been able to deal to you? Please, tell me how I do damage while I'm trying to get range on you. Even when you're up shit creek without a paddle, you can STILL spam AE, unless you somehow got arcane locked. I don't have that kind of option, do I? Lawlersk8s spamclip.

JFC learn to fucking not be so outrageously hypocrytical. You're arguing that hunters are balanced around their 3 second boom headshot combo every 10 SECONDS and that mages can do the same thing while having to burn a 3 MINUTE COOLDOWN is somehow more unfair.

What does 3 minute cooldown matter? Arena fights will be over in under 20 seconds, or at least decided by that point. For me to pull off my combo I need to stand still for 3 seconds at range. How often is that going to happen? You however can GUARANTEE around 2.5 - 4k damage without even having to have a single cast time. If you have the time to sneak in a fireball before the PoM, it can be over 6k. I would rather Aimed be on a 15 minute cooldown but instant cast than what it is now. I'd actually be able to do damage before locked in melee range indefinately.

Also wait until TBC fagfuck, you're getting a class revamp basically if all the datamined shit is true, lower burst but more attacks to use.

Exactly. Lower burst. Burst is all that's important to pvp you cuntrag. They are fixing us for pve. Great. I am honestly happy about it since I'm basically done w/ pvp. But our ability to blast damage in pvp is being heavily reduced which is frankly the only point we'd be useful for in arena. I suppose we can be damage sponges and hope our teammate kills both of you?

[xilsharn]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

LOL, speaking froma PuG's point of view, I see things a bit diffrently. I run into a premade Ally team maybe 2 out of 10 AB. the rest the Horde crushes the Ally PuGs like were a frickem premade. And some of the premades we even beat, because I think 1/2 of them are formed in thinking that horde would just fold at the sight of seeing 15 names from the same server.

Just last night I ran 10 ABs before I went to bed and Horde won 8 of those.

So I dont really see this "disparity" your taking about. There isnt that many premade PvP groups in tier 3 , because guilds like that usually soend 90% of their time PvEing for the ext epic. am I saying groups like you describe dont exist? No, Ive ran into them. But they are so rare that , really, it does not make a diffrence.

No, I pug AB quite a bit too. But I'm talking about premade versus premade.

[Arbitrary]

Originally Posted by Makata

Even if this were true .. your point is? This is 2v2, 3v3, etc. Not 1v1. No one gives a flying fuck about 1v1. If you are trying to make assumptions around class balance and even consider 1v1 you are wrong. You could be autowin vs everyone else 1v1 but auto-loss in a 2v2 situation and, guess what, you won't be worth shit in arena pvp.

King of the 1v1 Argument laying the smackdown.

[Yermum Onceme]

It's not 1v1 makata. Use your pet to fuck over a healer. Have a partner who can lock people away from you, such as a frost mage. Play like a team player and stop looking at it as a duel. Hunters can have uses too, and in arena combat they simply have to have the right partner and a strategy.

Once again, STOP looking at it as a duel, STOP looking at ONLY hunter abilities, and start thinking about just what you can do with a capable partner/team. Arena fighting is NOT 1v1, chief.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

King of the 1v1 Argument laying the smackdown.

The biting irony here is what you quoted from me in your sig basically ackowledges how powerful of a class they are in group pvp yet you try and call me out on solo pvp.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Yermum Onceme

It's not 1v1 makata. Use your pet to fuck over a healer. Have a partner who can lock people away from you, such as a frost mage. Play like a team player and stop looking at it as a duel. Hunters can have uses too, and in arena combat they simply have to have the right partner and a strategy.

Hunter + mage huh? What is that frost going to do against a warrior who charges and has me hamstringed? How am I going to help the mage if he's got a warrior on him? And honestly .. what am I doing that a second mage can't do better?

Once again, STOP looking at it as a duel, STOP looking at ONLY hunter abilities, and start thinking about just what you can do with a capable partner/team. Arena fighting is NOT 1v1, chief.

I'm not denying that I CAN do things. A hunter on a 2v2 is not an auto-loss. But what I am sure of is in every possible team with a hunter, you could swap it for a mage, rogue, healer, warlock .. basically anything else and do better against the same field.

[Arbitrary]

Originally Posted by Makata

The biting irony here is what you quoted from me in your sig basically ackowledges how powerful of a class they are in group pvp yet you try and call me out on solo pvp.

The biting irony here is that you think that you can pretend that you never bitched dozens upon dozens of times about 1v1 situations.

And your quote isn't even about group PvP, it is about you bitching about losing a 9v1 fight because a CC spell.

[Yermum Onceme]

I think a hunter and warlock would be a devastating 2v2 combo. You can lock down casters so well with the felhunter and your pet interrupting. His fears should keep melee at a distance. Your ac gives you an advantage over cloth if they do go for you, and if they go for him, no range problems for you.

Your class hasnt even gotten new talents, spells or abilities yet too. Who knows what other awesome pvp shit may get thrown in. Stop crying basically.

[Lyenae]

Originally Posted by unregisteredperson

I thought I made it pretty clear where my idea came from, but prehaps I am in the minority here and most people prefer to watch pvp rather than participate in it.

If you are stupid enough to get CC'd with no personal counters or allies to counter it, you made the choice to watch PvP.

CC adds dimension to the game. Without it, PvP becomes a stupid hackfest pre-determined by the tier of their gear, and who smacks their hotkeys the fastest.

[Zamar]

Maybe they mean Freezing trap and seduce blind etc, that are really overpowered atm since there are almost 0 ways (apart ice block / divine shield) to counter them, since sheep / sap / fear etc and all long term CC are already nerfed with big diminishing returns, and they can last anywhere from 1-2 secs to 20 secs but they are no where near as reliable as seduce/freezing trap which is retarded atm, a single character guarding the flag? np seduce / freezing trap and you can cap it 100% of the time which is what I think they want to change, predectibility (or how ever that's spelled).