New EQ2 run animations incomming

[Soygen]

Originally Posted by Maxxius

Blizzard would have just as much of a hard time trying to design more realistic animations.

While I don't know how hard or easy of a time Blizzard would have, I think it is safe to say the following: Blizzard wouldn't release it, until it looked good.

[Asmadai]

Originally Posted by Soygen

While I don't know how hard or easy of a time Blizzard would have, I think it is safe to say the following: Blizzard wouldn't release it, until it looked good.

...even if it means making their paying fanbase wait for fucking eternity.

And considering most people try and leave EQ2 for WoW, and having dealt with people who came from WoW, to EQ2, only to go back to WoW, one of the obvious reasons people leave EQ2 is it's difficulty in comparison to WoW.

I wouldn't really blame it as much on the graphics/animations and other problems you feel the game has. You wouldn't believe how long it took me to explain Heroic Opps. and linked encounters to someone who came from WoW. Jesus Christ, when I tried to teach him the difference between a Solo Encounter, and Solo mobs that are intended for 3+ people, you'd think I was trying to teach him Rocket Science.

I know it's a shifty thing to rate MMO's by difficulty, but EQ2 is by far harder to play, get used to, and learn to like than WoW; for clearly obvious reasons. How hard do you think it is for the former WoW players to accept that they actually might have to group to do most of the things there are to do in the game? Heh, let 'em go running back to WoW. I'm enjoying the sudden drop in server-collective idiocy.

[Aldarion_Shard]

"WoW's art is not to my taste" = Fine.
"WoW's art is bad" = You're fundamentally retarded.

Clear now?

So everyone who is saying EQ2 has bad animations, rather than animations that are not to their tastes, is fundamentally retarded? Thats rather antagonistic of you.

Aside from the rampant inconsistency (i.e. people who criticize WoW's "art" are mocked, while people who criticize EQ2's art are applauded), you are basing this all on a false assumption: that art is entirely subjective.

Art is *largely* subjective. Some prefer Monet over Van Gogh. This is subjective, and both opinions are valid. But differences in talent exist as well. Not every art comparison can be reduced down to just "we have a difference in tastes". WoW art contains some objectively bad elements -- huge 80's style shoulderpads, ridiculously angular low-polygon models, oversized weapons that would be impossible to lift, absurdly neon-bright colors that steel armor could never actually be stained.

These are bad design decisions. You like the effect, I hate it, and both are valid opinions. But the elements decsribed above are objectively bad -- they just dont bother you.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

...even if it means making their paying fanbase wait for fucking eternity.

I bolded the relevant part there for you.

[Schatze]

Originally Posted by Zuuljin

Well, considering the entire EQ2 team is 1 guy, and since he just finished up on doing cloaks, I'm assuming he'll move on to the other more important stuff, after lunch.

Considering for a long period of time leading up to and following KOS we saw regular, meaningful, content packed patches but since EOF went big and the deadlines started drawing near we've seen filler patches while huge issues are allowed to degrade game play.

There are whole servers with no damned played casters but for farm bots who are populated by scout classes. You remember that whole ranger/paladin "hey fuck you guys for an expansion" time in Kunark? This is magnitudes worse. Sure some quit, but there were still a bunch of both classes running around. For comparison, I am the only caster who regularly PVPs on my entire server. And I can say that with confidence since server pops are down to several hundred active tier 7 players, maybe less.

Of course they should just allow transfers off PVP servers and merge everything else into nagafen as all but nagafen are dead population wise except for the occasional assassin who will run out of nowhere to decap me then hide in town for 15 mins.

[Moontayle]

Originally Posted by Aldarion_Shard

So everyone who is saying EQ2 has bad animations, rather than animations that are not to their tastes, is fundamentally retarded? Thats rather antagonistic of you.

Aside from the rampant inconsistency (i.e. people who criticize WoW's "art" are mocked, while people who criticize EQ2's art are applauded), you are basing this all on a false assumption: that art is entirely subjective.

Art is *largely* subjective. Some prefer Monet over Van Gogh. This is subjective, and both opinions are valid. But differences in talent exist as well. Not every art comparison can be reduced down to just "we have a difference in tastes". WoW art contains some objectively bad elements -- huge 80's style shoulderpads, ridiculously angular low-polygon models, oversized weapons that would be impossible to lift, absurdly neon-bright colors that steel armor could never actually be stained.

These are bad design decisions. You like the effect, I hate it, and both are valid opinions. But the elements decsribed above are objectively bad -- they just dont bother you.

This post here reminds me of an old Murphy Brown episode where when it came to art she just didn't "get it". So in an attempt to show that it doesn't matter where the art comes from she went to pass off a toddler doodling from her son as work from an obscure French painter, and then got two of the most reknowned art critics to look at it. The critics immediately started arguing. One thought it looked like something a two year old would do, the other praised it for being simple and elegant and deliberately child-like. Some high dollar businessman immediately bought the drawing. When she told the man it had indeed come from her toddler he looked at her and said, "You really don't get it do you? The two most reknowned art critics in the world are arguing over it. I couldn't care less who painted it."

[Abalieno]

They should take Guild Wars as an example. The new female character in Nightfall (the expansion is in preview right now) has the skirt animated well, and without procedural animations (so with hardcoded anims).

[Jait]

Different strokes for different folks. Trying to compare animations or graphics across WoW/EQ/EQ2/Vanguard is an exercise in futility.

Remember the Infinity Engine? Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale? Shittiest possible graphics for it's time? Greatest storytelling mechanic of it's time?

Using your imagination is far superior to having everything handed on a plate to you. Because of which, the above games brought that old RPG feeling back into the genre which had long since been dead, due to Ultima thinking "Shiny is better!" Turns out they were just years ahead of their time I suppose.

I'm not going to argue for/against EQ2s animations, to be honest I never really had given much thought about "Animation" in games before reading this thread. I guess I was too busy you know....killing shit and enjoying the actual gameplay/story just as I did with the Infinity Engine and every MMO I played. Hell MUD's didn't have graphics at all for a long time. I try to empathize with this arguement, but I keep coming back to the same thing....

"OMG I wont play Baldurs Gate, my character can't dance and flirt!" Christ, what's next? The Text-bubbles above our head dont give a good enough "cybor feel"? I'm sure these are valid complaints for the 12-year old girls playing MMOs today. But hardcore gamers should stick to what makes games tick and use nothing but /em

Seriously, think about what you all are arguing about. Then go put on your dress, stick a flower in your hair and hit the town.

[Zuuljin]

Here's a funny thing that I noticed about EQ1, EQ2 and other first person shooters while playing. And it really is quite annoying, so perhaps Gallenite or anyone else can offer some insight?

Basically it has to do with mouse sensitivity. In EQ1 (played it last night to check out the new expansion), when the game bogs down with lots to render, and your FPS dips, your mouse sensitivity gets higher, and if you turn and look at something that has low poly counts, and high FPS, then your mouse sens is low.

EQ2 is completely opposite. If your in a well performing area, the mouse turns fast, but when the game gets bogged down, you turn slow.

Last, in any FPS, the mouse sens is equal whether your lagging or running at 100fps.

Whats the deal?

[Utnayan]

I may be wrong on this one but I was under the assumption that happened because it was a non hardware mouse cursor. Rob Pardo talked about it at length one time at GDC I thought or somewhere else. I remember Pardo talking about why the gameplay didn't feel right with the mouse, and how the cursor would lag with the game. I think he was talking about Warcraft 3, but it could apply to EQ2.

I could be totally off base though.

[Andric d'Regor]

Originally Posted by Aldarion_Shard

So everyone who is saying EQ2 has bad animations, rather than animations that are not to their tastes, is fundamentally retarded? Thats rather antagonistic of you.

Aside from the rampant inconsistency (i.e. people who criticize WoW's "art" are mocked, while people who criticize EQ2's art are applauded), you are basing this all on a false assumption: that art is entirely subjective.

Art is *largely* subjective. Some prefer Monet over Van Gogh. This is subjective, and both opinions are valid. But differences in talent exist as well. Not every art comparison can be reduced down to just "we have a difference in tastes". WoW art contains some objectively bad elements -- huge 80's style shoulderpads, ridiculously angular low-polygon models, oversized weapons that would be impossible to lift, absurdly neon-bright colors that steel armor could never actually be stained.

These are bad design decisions. You like the effect, I hate it, and both are valid opinions. But the elements decsribed above are objectively bad -- they just dont bother you.

I want to point out that many of the 'artists' on games have no artistic control - they are following a design and predefined style not their thier own so while the graphic and stylistic direction may be to someones preference I feel that calling it 'art' is way to much of an overstatement. Quite honestly if the graphical workers at wow & soe swapped places overnight I doubt there woudl be any serious difereence - its about design and management of that design and both sets of folks are professionals in a job.
This isnt directed at this post in particular, but its as good as any to make the point with.

[Cantatus]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

What specific animations is it in EQ2 that most people hate? I'll admit, some of them do look atrocious, but for the most part i'd say the majority of the animations are well done. (Are SOGA animations better/worse/same as the regular model animations?) I've been using SOGA models for mostly ever race except Ogres, so I'm not sure if the older models are the reasons for most of the animation gripes or no.

I think most emotes are done well. Even though the /dance emote looks like someone was simultaneously struck by lightning while standing on a frying pan and having a seizure, it's still a fluid and smooth animation. It seems to be more the everyday animations that could use a tweak here or there, like the running. Frogloks moving backwards looks fairly dumb too.

Originally Posted by Laerazi

For example, all 100+ of EQ2's motion-captured emotes look like complete and utter shit. They were done by a real person, but it doesn't mean they look good.

With motion captured animations, you MUST make every part of them lifelike; if ANY part looks the slightest bit "fake" it's going to ruin the illusion.

I'm fairly certain Cryptic has said in the past that most of their animations are motion-captured as well. That gives you a good contrast in what motion-capture can accomplish.

[Araxen]

I'll tell you what. The PC animations and models is what keeps me from resubsribing to EQ. The Original EQ Character models blow the doors off any models that come after that. The models just look right in the way they behave and such. The new models don't have that and it is ugly, lazy, and out of place to me.

The same can be said for EQ2 models and Vanguard models. I don't understand why some companies can churn out awesome looking character models/animations like Blizzard/Mythic/Guild Wars, etc.. but SOE/Sigil can't do it if their lives depended on it.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to animate humans.

[Laerazi]

The PC animations and models is what keeps me from resubsribing to EQ. The Original EQ Character models blow the doors off any models that come after that. The models just look right in the way they behave and such. The new models don't have that and it is ugly, lazy, and out of place to me.

Why not just turn on the old models then?

[Araxen]

Mounts and such..