Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Gaereth]

If housing is tied to character or guild progression in some way then you are on the right track. When it just a perk, a place you can go to get things you can get in a lot of other places it is just an add on.

People want meaningful ways to progress their characters, make them individuals, to build them up with their choices. If guild or individual housing can work towards then it is something cool.

Most of our current games are damn near 100% item centric and if you took any 2 of the same level characters, stripped them nekkid, they would be damn near identical. If housing were to create something meaningful that added to your character then you are heading the right way.

[Grave]

Originally Posted by Lleauaric~EW

Stuff

I like a lot of your ideas, although I think there is room for personal housing in addition to trade buildings.

Going back to what I was saying earlier about the different instances you could choose to move in to, it would be interesting to see how player choices differed when it came to a shop rather than a personal home.

Take a certain neighborhood that is known to have a high amount of traffic. It would obviously be an attractive place, but not only to you, but other crafters as well. Players would have to decide whether it was worth it to try to compete with these established shops or place their shop in a different neighborhood and try to promote it. If a player decided they didn't want to continue running their shop, they may find their space in the neighborhood is highly sought after by other potential shopkeepers. A whole new secondary market would arise for simply selling plots of land!

Of course, the only way this would work would be to limit the auction house somehow (EQ2 did it by allowing players to drop the broker fee if they bought directly from a player, for example), but I'm not sure this is necessarily the best option. I'd have to think on it a bit to come up with alternatives. Either way, if you could get the people to come to your shop and make player-owned vendors attractive like they were back in the UO days, I think the idea of a player market is incredibly good.

[Traldan]

Originally Posted by Ukerric

A lot of people have already said part on my own take on the subject, so I'll simply summarise:

Housing is interesting the following main reasons:
- Playing house/legos/whatever, which is a small, but fun, sub-game
- Displaying your achievements
- Acting as a social hub
- Acting as a more realistic storage

The social hub function is better exemplified by the teleport. Since the Realm, housing is meaningful in that it allows people to quickly go to a central point. That's a given. So, make housing an integral part of the city. All those buildings that serve as filler? Make each have 2-3 rooms at the top floor. Nearly every building in any town should be livable. The model of ghettos outside of the main area is an artefact that stems from the fact that almost all the games that implement it had housing tacked after the fact. EQ2 had in-city housing, because it had it from the start. It devoted too much (IMHO) buildings to housing purposes, and didn't integrate housing into the "life" of the city. So, copy the old medieval feeling, and place shops and stores on ground floor, and all housing on the floors above.

"I live above the component vendor, next to the market"

Make lots more floor plans. You don't need to decorate things after all - the players will. So there's small rooms (based on a 4x5 tile base), larger rooms (vaguely L-shaped 40ish tile wide), appartments (a hundred tiles, with separating walls), luxury suites.

Add a mini real-estate market. The base price for any appartment is proportional to the number of tiles of the floor plan, plus X% per number of people who are renting an instanced copy of that appartment. A well located appartment is going to fetch a premium - and you don't have to fix the prices, the players will do that for you (and the more cash they have, the bigger the drains that they will create).

No / Nearly no furniture (NPC) vendors. You populate your appartment essentially from adventuring - you went into that old library to slay some ghost; hey that was a nice little waist-height bookshelf (which acts as a container for scholarly-themed things, adding storage to your appartment. It will look good next to the weapon rack you won with a random 100 in the bandit tower).

As already said, you make the house an integral part of your storage. Bank? There's no bank... oh you mean that small (20 slots) magic chest in your appartment, that can be accessed from remote chests.

This. I don't have much to add, this sums up my thoughts on the matter.

I thought EQ2 did housing quite nicely. I think their biggest area for improvement was in overall city usage. There was one building for the cheap housing in each of the city areas, and usually a few expensive houses. Lots of dead/useless buildings (mind, this was in Qeynos/Freeport...it has improved since then). But the house was a place to store things, decorate, craft, utilize the market. It wasn't a true 'social' area - you didn't go there to talk to a friend, for instance. But it certainly was a nice part of the game - making for more things to do when not adventuring. That, IMHO, was key.

[Sunnyd]

Ive only played EQ2 with player housing, but from what I experienced it was adequate.
Things I liked about it:
Something to do in the off time instead of standing around by the bank.
Gave meaning to all the items you make skilling up a trade skill. You could sell them on the AH or put them in your house.
It appealed to the wife. It gave her something to do to help break her into the game.
Created a niche sub culture of budding house design people. Some of the designs done in EQ2 were superb, the ingenuity of some people was astounding.
The ability to put some quest rewards on mounts and put them in your house was fantastic. Give the ability to do it with most items/armour and Id love it. I hate getting rid of some of my "treasured" items, so instead they sit in my bank taking up space. I am a pack rat and proud of it.
Having some items with a function is good. Im thinking here of the mat that ported you into the maj-dul instance.

Guild housing?
Im not really clued up as to what this would serve other then a place to hang trophies. If you could do things direct from the house, then sure a hub is a good thing, but tbh I would hate for my gaming experience to be "log in > guild house > port to instance > log off".
With the rise in popularity of guild banks, I think the need for a guild house is rapidly declining.
Give each "boss mob" a house item that everyone can loot, and they can stick their epeen items up in their own house if they so wish.

[Ngruk]

I have always loved the thought of guilds having houses, upgradeable to keeps and stuff, that could be sieged against from warring guilds.

I also thought that a guild being able to 'show off' accomplishments such as hanging Boss mob trophies for public display was very cool. Also having a tabard or some marking on the guild house that progressed with a guilds level, maybe even the building architecture would be fun and very cool.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

How about player housing? What's the best ever? Worst ever? Your dream setup for player, guild housing? Instanced? Real 'virtual' real estate? Combo?

1. Have instanced & cheap houses for individuals.
2. Have non-instanced and difficult to get halls for guilds.
3. Make guild-halls give rewards based upon the method of which those upgrades are gained.
4. If a guild gained guild hall upgrades through PVE Raiding, give them bonuses for PVE raiding.
5. If a guild gained a guild hall upgrades through PVPing, give them bonuses for PVP.
6. Make it possible for a guild to be elite and gain a guild hall by being elite, either through dominating a bunch of other guilds or by progressing far in PVE content.
7. Make it also possible for a guild to just be able to raise ridiculous amounts of money and buy their own guild hall ala Shadowbane.
8. Make PVP-based guild halls able to be attacked somehow, while PVE-based guild halls are not.
9. Base the PVP-boost guild hall's ability based upon the number of other guildhalls that guild has taken over, as well as the length of time that guild hall has been held.

I would like to see guild halls take the form of a home for a guild, a presentation of their prowess, and a boon to the ability of the guild.

Or, you could just take the easy route and make guild halls another money sink, forcing my ass to stop PVPing and go kill elves just so I can PVP.

[Tyen]

It would be cool to enslave NPCs to guard/populate your guild's building. That way it can help fend off attackers while most of the guild is away from the building or logged out sleeping.

[Tuco]

Slavery would be quite possibly the best MMO feature I've seen. Tyen could build a city with his guild mates, then as the city grows it has an NPC population living there.

Then Tyen talks shit to me on the forums and I come down with my brethern and pillage his city, taking his NPC population as slaves. Sell some of them, and force the others to work as guards, mercenaries, farmers etc. Shit that would work great in AoC.

[Gaereth]

That kind of brings in the guild as an institution rather than a social convenience. I would love to have guilds and guild halls be more meaningful, be the holders of the power. For instance, if you have to get keyed that is something that comes from the guild. If the guild is keyed then you are keyed, if you leave the guild then you lose that key.

Being a member gives a lot of perks rather than just the ability to raid the content the guild is up to. You get better prices in some places and perhaps worse ones in others due to the guilds 'faction'. Hell, perhaps choosing a guild becomes a very important choice because you get that political faction from it that influences everything from where you raid to who is trying to kill you.

You start tying stuff like that in with guild halls and then you have something meaningful.

[Zhakran]

I'd suggest as an addendum to player housing have gambling in the game world.

Casinos perhaps where you could actually play with other players in game, with either games specific to your world, or real world betting games. Let players be able to host these games in their own in game homes as well, and gamble on the in game currency in whatever amounts they want to.

When you factor in the secondary market, you could take a pretty decent chunk of business from onlike betting sites if the games were fun and people actually enjoyed whatever form of gambling you wanted to institute.

[Pinski]

Originally Posted by Zhakran

I'd suggest as an addendum to player housing have gambling in the game world.

Casinos perhaps where you could actually play with other players in game, with either games specific to your world, or real world betting games. Let players be able to host these games in their own in game homes as well, and gamble on the in game currency in whatever amounts they want to.

When you factor in the secondary market, you could take a pretty decent chunk of business from onlike betting sites if the games were fun and people actually enjoyed whatever form of gambling you wanted to institute.

And it would also be highly illegal.

[Zhakran]

really? because according to every EULA in existence the data has no real world value whatsoever and is the sole property of the company that makes the game.

If you're betting real money, it would be illegal. Legally speaking though, WoW currency does not have any value. Games of chance are only illegal if they involve wagering currency.

[Ukerric]

Originally Posted by Zhakran

If you're betting real money, it would be illegal. Legally speaking though, WoW currency does not have any value. Games of chance are only illegal if they involve wagering currency.

And you think this is going to stop legislators becoming very interested in this... how?

[Blitzspear]

I’ve never liked player housing in MMO’s, I’ve always felt it was pointless fluff that appealed mostly to female gamers. But Guild keeps have potential, and depending on what rule set the server has they should offer varied benefits.

Although, more than the benefits, a Guild Keep should represent the guild and its roster. If a guild has a certain amount of clerics at max level, the Keep should have a minor chapel on the grounds with the ability to resurrect and summon a PC corpse. If enough Wizards in the guild, the Keep would have an arcane tower, with portals inside to all major cities and so on with the rest of the classes. Raid caps would mean that no guild would be able to get all the special buildings just from those in the raid roster. To get all, the guild would have to make up the numbers with friends and family, who have no interest in raiding, or alt characters.

Keeps have to be in the world as well, not glossed over in instances where no one will ever see them. They should be a big bill board advertisement for guilds, situated in levelling zones, giving benefit and added resources for new players questing through the area. Insignias used in Guild tabards should be incorporated into large banners to throw across the walls, and on flags flapping above the walls. Trophies should be on display from guild accomplishments, as you progress through PVE raid tiers your keep vendors get special items to sell not available anywhere else in the world to help fund raiding progress.

I also think hiring NPC’s would be cool too, to put on main doors, or patrolling above the walls, just to help defend the Guild Keep during off peak hours if on a PVP server. Could possibly associate the defending NPC’s with the PVP accomplishments of the guild players, how high they are in the rankings, or how many confirmed kills they have combined. Keeps have huge potential, not even started on the pokemon pets segment...

[Drave]

Originally Posted by Tuco

Slavery would be quite possibly the best MMO feature I've seen. Tyen could build a city with his guild mates, then as the city grows it has an NPC population living there.

Then Tyen talks shit to me on the forums and I come down with my brethern and pillage his city, taking his NPC population as slaves. Sell some of them, and force the others to work as guards, mercenaries, farmers etc. Shit that would work great in AoC.

©2008 Tuco, Inc.