Anyone still playing EQII?

[Lost Ranger]

I like the game and still play it but it sure does have some glaring problems that need looked at if they hope to last for years to come. The item problem being one of the biggest. I have seen some stuff that made me go "woah I want that!"... but in EQ1 when I first saw the bard epic back when I was still too young to have it I got so excited. It was something that I worked my ass off for and when I finally did get it I cant even describe the feeling. That kind of thing needs to come back to not just EQ2 but other games as well.

Some of the loot I saw in WoW was pretty neat looking but for some reason I just wasnt that excited for it. When my priest got his benediction I was happy, but I wasnt really excited.

I dont know why though... I hope that feeling comes back one day. Loot in the current MMOs seems so blah.

[FulorianC]

What the fuck? Saying Kildace's name makes him come back from the dead? Whoa.

[Zuuljin]

I dont think anyone disagree's with his points about SOE. What we're all sick and tired of its its the same shit in every fucking post. WE KNOW THEY HAVE SOME SHITTY CS AT TIMES. WE KNOW BUGS GET PATCHED IN LIVE EVEN THOUGH THEIR KNOWN ABOUT. WE KNOW HE THINKS EVERYONE HATES THEIR JOB THERE AND PASSES THIS ONTO THE PLAYERS.

Its the same shit over and over and over. Here we have a post discussing itemization, mob difficulty, graphics, etc, and he has to shit it up with the same stuff from every other EQ2 post. People are leaving the game for more then just raid bugs. Yet he seems to think thats the only problem with the game. Any time someone brings up other problems, he sticks his 2 cents about shitty devs in again.

Honestly, please tell me what insightful critisism he has told us in this thread that differes from any other EQ2 thread. And what solution or fix has he offered? He talks about nothing but the devs like he's some kind of inside man with top secret infoz.

Has he ever commented on anything involving game mechanics? Theory? Anything besides "shitty devs" making shitty graphics and shitty models? I think not. And until he does, he will be treated like the crazy broken record he is.

[Draz]

Originally Posted by Zuuljin

I dont think anyone disagree's with his points about SOE. What we're all sick and tired of its its the same shit in every fucking post. WE KNOW THEY HAVE SOME SHITTY CS AT TIMES. WE KNOW BUGS GET PATCHED IN LIVE EVEN THOUGH THEIR KNOWN ABOUT. WE KNOW HE THINKS EVERYONE HATES THEIR JOB THERE AND PASSES THIS ONTO THE PLAYERS.

Its the same shit over and over and over. Here we have a post discussing itemization, mob difficulty, graphics, etc, and he has to shit it up with the same stuff from every other EQ2 post. People are leaving the game for more then just raid bugs. Yet he seems to think thats the only problem with the game. Any time someone brings up other problems, he sticks his 2 cents about shitty devs in again.

Honestly, please tell me what insightful critisism he has told us in this thread that differes from any other EQ2 thread. And what solution or fix has he offered? He talks about nothing but the devs like he's some kind of inside man with top secret infoz.

Has he ever commented on anything involving game mechanics? Theory? Anything besides "shitty devs" making shitty graphics and shitty models? I think not. And until he does, he will be treated like the crazy broken record he is.

Yeap, thats all I was saying, except for the last part, because he has gave his opinion on how to fix stuff (I think). Its just that he says the same damn thing over and over and over again, and I among many others are tired of him fagging up every damn post with the same stuff all the damn time.

[Zuuljin]

Originally Posted by Draz

Yeap, thats all I was saying, except for the last part, because he has gave his opinion on how to fix stuff (I think). Its just that he says the same damn thing over and over and over again, and I among many others are tired of him fagging up every damn post with the same stuff all the damn time.

His opinion on fixing stuff is fire everyone and start over, or "clean house" I believe his words were. I dont really consider that an option for fixing things.

[Asmadai]

Originally Posted by Zuuljin

I dont think anyone disagree's with his points about SOE. What we're all sick and tired of its its the same shit in every fucking post. WE KNOW THEY HAVE SOME SHITTY CS AT TIMES. WE KNOW BUGS GET PATCHED IN LIVE EVEN THOUGH THEIR KNOWN ABOUT. WE KNOW HE THINKS EVERYONE HATES THEIR JOB THERE AND PASSES THIS ONTO THE PLAYERS.

Its the same shit over and over and over. Here we have a post discussing itemization, mob difficulty, graphics, etc, and he has to shit it up with the same stuff from every other EQ2 post. People are leaving the game for more then just raid bugs. Yet he seems to think thats the only problem with the game. Any time someone brings up other problems, he sticks his 2 cents about shitty devs in again.

Honestly, please tell me what insightful critisism he has told us in this thread that differes from any other EQ2 thread. And what solution or fix has he offered? He talks about nothing but the devs like he's some kind of inside man with top secret infoz.

Has he ever commented on anything involving game mechanics? Theory? Anything besides "shitty devs" making shitty graphics and shitty models? I think not. And until he does, he will be treated like the crazy broken record he is.

Thank you.

[Kildace]

Originally Posted by Zuuljin

I dont think anyone disagree's with his points about SOE. What we're all sick and tired of its its the same shit in every fucking post. WE KNOW THEY HAVE SOME SHITTY CS AT TIMES. WE KNOW BUGS GET PATCHED IN LIVE EVEN THOUGH THEIR KNOWN ABOUT. WE KNOW HE THINKS EVERYONE HATES THEIR JOB THERE AND PASSES THIS ONTO THE PLAYERS.

Its the same shit over and over and over. Here we have a post discussing itemization, mob difficulty, graphics, etc, and he has to shit it up with the same stuff from every other EQ2 post. People are leaving the game for more then just raid bugs. Yet he seems to think thats the only problem with the game. Any time someone brings up other problems, he sticks his 2 cents about shitty devs in again.

Honestly, please tell me what insightful critisism he has told us in this thread that differes from any other EQ2 thread. And what solution or fix has he offered? He talks about nothing but the devs like he's some kind of inside man with top secret infoz.

Has he ever commented on anything involving game mechanics? Theory? Anything besides "shitty devs" making shitty graphics and shitty models? I think not. And until he does, he will be treated like the crazy broken record he is.

His first post in his thread is basically quoting Genjiro and saying that everyone should read his post (something on which I actually happen to agree). Then he started getting trolled (comparing the Kel'Thuzad bug to the clusterfuck that is the EQ2 raid game *is* trolling). You can't blame him for responding.

[Asmadai]

Originally Posted by Kildace

His first post in his thread is basically quoting Genjiro and saying that everyone should read his post (something on which I actually happen to agree). Then he started getting trolled (comparing the Kel'Thuzad bug to the clusterfuck that is the EQ2 raid game *is* trolling). You can't blame him for responding.

Sorry, even when being trolled, shutting the fuck up is ALWAYS a viable option. Needless to say, his tendency to always bite when trolls do come along didn't help the situation much either.

[GrobbeeTrull]

It's in my name, mang.

[Utnayan]

Here we have a post discussing itemization, mob difficulty, graphics, etc, and he has to shit it up with the same stuff from every other EQ2 post. People are leaving the game for more then just raid bugs. Yet he seems to think thats the only problem with the game. Any time someone brings up other problems, he sticks his 2 cents about shitty devs in again.

Correction.

Here we have a post asking if anyone is playing EQ2 anymore, and it turned into why people are NOT playing EQ2 anymore. A good solid chunk of why there are the above problems as you mentioned, is they have people that 1> Do not listen. 2> Have no clue what their game entails. 3> Have about 50 people doing 60 different things, of which they do not communicate to each other, which ends up in a complete mess as they have it now. 4> A few very good people who cannot do their job because of the people under or over them either controlling the shots, or doing their own thing anyway.

That comes down to employee quality. It comes down to forcing those employees, when they shouldn't be forced anyway, to play their own game up, down, left, and right - to make sure they know the mechanics. I mean seriously Zuuljin, you said yourself how you can take off ALL YOUR ARMOR except for a sword, and still solo the same mob. For God's sake how broken is that?

It isn't going to change until they find the people that should not be developing these games, and replace them with people that want to learn the systems, want to make positive changes, are willing to put forth the effort to understand the concepts and mechanics before doing so, and then making it happen while communicating with each other.

As it stands right now, you have about 60 ego's all clashing trying to come up with the newest game concepts for EQ2, regardless of game mechanics, trying to prove themselves so they can advance in the company without addressing why the game isn't fun to begin with and completely ignoring valid and legitimate concerns. It's why nothing gets fixed, and it's why less and less are subscribing and putting up with it.

Some of you people can discuss this until the cows come home. It isn't going to do any good until you change out the people responsible for you bitching about it in the first place - who continue to ignore those concerns even as the ship sinks - for their own personal vestment in the company.

They need to be more team conductive, and it shouldn't have to be forced. Until you fix those basic game development tactics, SOE will continue to shuttle out mediocre at best titles.

Edit: And, Zuuljin, you want me to give solid theories for game design that would improve EQ2? Why? So I can sound just like a broken record (Again) when it comes to you guys who complain about the same things I would discuss? Itemization, raid content, art direction, animations, armor actually DOING SOMETHING, carrots to chase... Christ, we are talking fundmental concepts of MMORPG's that SHOULDN'T need to be taught to people designing the game in the first place. Which is why I DO harp on the fact that their needs to be employee shifts within SOE because some of these people haven't the slightest clue as to what they are doing - but even worse - have the ego to think they do know when they don't, and never listen to crucial feedback explaining the basics of MMORPG design. Right now it's like watching a freshman high school quarter back (This forum) teaching Peyton Manning (SOE) how to throw a football. it just shouldn't need to be done, but in this case, Peyton doesn't know how to even hold the damn thing.

[Onte]

You said, months ago, that you weren't going to shit up anymore EQ2 threads, so stop shitting up this one. In fact, I almost didn't post my earlier reply on page 2 or 3 because I knew you were going to use anything anyone said about the game as ammunition to promote your insanity. Get out of the thread. No one in this thread WANTS to debate you with concise points.

[Utnayan]

Look here, if you want to sit here and bitch about what needs to be changed for the next 5 years while never going to the source of why it isn't, then I can assure you these EQ2 threads will shit on themselves.

If you want the real reasons behind why the game isn't getting fixed the way it should, then read what I write. Until then, bitching about it here, or anywhere else, isn't going to do you one damn bit of good until you change the people at the source who will listen to what you have to say.

And the reason why I came to this thread in the first place is because Genjiro hit the nail on the head perfectly as to why things are not getting done. Do you want to see things changed? Or do you just want to sit here and bitch about it while anyone who explains why things are not getting changed are flat out ignored, or they are "fagging up an EQ2 thread"

[Spyryt]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

...I mean seriously Zuuljin, you said yourself how you can take off ALL YOUR ARMOR except for a sword, and still solo the same mob. For God's sake how broken is that?

Can someone clarify this idea? I mean, as a melee, I can go kill a grey con naked or equipped but that isn't surprising to me. Same thing with a green solo mob. But I need my equip to kill anything that matters. A green heroic could easily kill me if I was naked but I easily kill him with my equipment. Same thing with a yellow solo mob. A tough named (green caster or blue anything) heroic can kill me 50% of the time fully equipped in all legendary level gear plus almost all master spells and if I was naked that would be 100%. I need some context here because people that make these statements, and people that quote them, just look like they are glossing over reality to try and make a point.

Originally Posted by Utnayan

...Itemization, raid content, art direction, animations, armor actually DOING SOMETHING, carrots to chase...

I will agree with you on "carrots to chase" but the rest is all so subjective, or just wrong (see "armor actuallly doing something"), that you lose me (well, to be accurate you lost me when you said these things the first 10 times, not this 50th or whatever time). Raid content is there and bitched about anyway in every game by people that either want it easier, harder, more of it, less of it, etc. Art is so subjective I don't understand how you can state it is a problem. I love their art style/direction/whatever and many others do, too. I hate, for example, cartoony, final fantasy III on the SNES, WoW art.

In my opinion (see that qualifier? maybe you just assume we know everything is "in your opinion" but it doesnt come across in your posts....you seem to state facts about subjective matters and that immediately offends people), the problems with EQ2 are true distinction between good and great gear along with the short life-span of gear (part of your "carrots") and system spec demands to see the impressive graphics (very much tied to art and slightly to your animation problem).

[Asmadai]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

As it stands right now, you have about 60 ego's all clashing trying to come up with the newest game concepts for EQ2, regardless of game mechanics, trying to prove themselves so they can advance in the company without addressing why the game isn't fun to begin with and completely ignoring valid and legitimate concerns. It's why nothing gets fixed, and it's why less and less are subscribing and putting up with it.

And as it stands right now, we have 1 huge ego clashing trying to tell everyone that he knows how an MMO should and shouldn't be run, regardless of people telling him they don't give a shit, trying to prove himself so they can advance at Message Board without addressing why he is a walking contradiction and completely ignoring valid and legitimate posts towards this. It's why he never shuts up, and why more and more are adding him to ignore rather than putting up with it.

Originally Posted by Utnayan

If you want the real reasons behind why the game isn't getting fixed the way it should, then read what I write. Until then, bitching about it here, or anywhere else, isn't going to do you one damn bit of good until you change the people at the source who will listen to what you have to say.

Seriously, as much as you tell people to go back and read what you've wrote, you'd do a DAMN fine job to take a page out of your own book. Your mouth is no longer required.

Utnayan, please. Shut up. There. I said please.

[Utnayan]

Welcome to a message forum. Where people talk about games, the companies, and they may bitch, several times, over and over.

If you are going to bitch at me, bitch at the same people bringing up the same concerns that they have brought up over and over again too, but seem to not care about actually getting them resolved to enjoy a game further.

Answers to things staring people right in the face get continually ignored.

Are you here to bitch fruitlessly? Or do you want to have answers as to why EQ2 subs are continuing to dwindle, as well as every other SOE published game at the moment? I stated my opinion. State yours.

If you are hear to bitch fruitlessly, just throw me on ignore and fucking be done with it. You, on the other hand, cannot do that - considering earlier in this thread you were googling my name for Christ sake to see where else I posted. You are so obsessed with me, it's borderline fucking freakish.

If anyone shits up these threads, it's people like you.

Edit: Here are some good points of what was made in previous posts over looked or out right flatly ignored because they brought to light what is actually wrong with this game, and why the people behind it need to be changed out.

You have the lies...

The official poster child race of Everquest, the frogluks. You know, those things we were told were in the fucking game from release and were waiting to be found. This was posted by the developers not once or twice, but numerous times. Aside from that, I specifically sent a /tell to one of the devs we tested with and asked if they were in game for sure, and was told yes, which was a straight up lie. Batphone indeed... So, for the next couple months after the lackluster release of The Bloodline Chronicles, which was a giant failure on many levels, we had a couple very dedicated hardcore guildmates looking for the hidden frogluks. They spent money getting the books of lore (which actually were really interesting reads, if only you guys had put clues in there for quests and such....but I digress), and searching night and day through zones like the Feerott and Cazic Thule for any sort of clues. What a slap in the face it was to them to find out through an email to me, that the devs want us to test the upcoming frogluk expansion pack which would make the frogluks a playable race. Evidenced by the current thread about WoW lore going on, I can only guess that a lot of developers underestimate what kind of interest their playerbase takes in the history of their world. Aside from the powergaming dork inside of me (and most of you), I do enjoy sitting down and reading game lore, it makes the world feel more alive and adds a lot of continuity and life to a bunch of boring pixels. Anyways, I hope you developers start using things like this in the future. Back on track though....

You have a lead dev that doesn't even know how to play the game...

So, since we only have 20, he is there as a paladin and tells us he will *help* us in the encounter. We really dont like this asshole, but whatever, I put him in a raidgroup. We pull, kill the adds, and about 20 seconds into the fight...he fucking pulls agro off our main tank. Now, apparently he had his damage set to some sort of high dev level (or so he tells us), and he dies like twice and we keep combat rezzing his dumb ass (and laughing hysterically in ventrilo this entire time). Not only does he pull agro, but you know when you play with some total (I hate this word) newb player who runs around like a chicken with their head cut off when they have agro? Well that was this guy. So, picture this giant flaming statue chasing this dev around, us chasing him trying to keep his sorry ass alive, and all the while we can barely play because we are laughing so hard in ventrilo. One of the true highlights to my mmo career. He also gives insightfully detailed explanations while he's tuning this encounter that since he turned the damage up, that our healers will need to heal more. No fucking way??! And to think after all these years I was playing blindfolded before I saw the light of this principle you learn 10 minutes into your first mmo.

You have a lead dev that doesn't know about somwething that has been overpowered and ignored for months...

So here we are in our copy/pasted asstastic gear, crappy spells, and this guy keeps telling me that my guild is going to get its ass kicked by his little pet raid zone and how impossible it will be for our raid of 20 instead of full raid of 24. He is quite shocked when we start stomping the living shit out of all the mobs, and he makes a brilliant discovery. He now for the first time sees that our troubadors are stacking their stamina buffs, the low medium and high level version of the same spell. He even tries to imply we are exploiting, right in front of his dumb ass. Ok, hello mr out of touch with reality devguy, if you had ever opened the forums ONCE to your own fucking game you would see countless threads in every dirge and troubador forum about how overpowered this was, posts which dated back to release. This guy had NO clue this was even possible, and he is a lead developer? The rest of the population of bards and raiders sure as hell knew about it. If this doesn't show you how those developers had no feel for the pulse of their own game, I don't know what would. Being guilded with someone like Tigole and Pardo for years (in LoS), I can guaran-fucking-tee you that those guys would know very quickly if something like this was unbalancing game content, not SIX goddamn months down the road. Ugh, this guy was the epitome of everything wrong in EQ2 all congealed and rolled into a mass of carbon based life. So, where were we?

You have a lead dev that didn't take the time to even make sure a major bug was tested out of the game...

Fast forward a month and a half later. Frogluk expansion is released. Guess what happens the first night to most every major guild in the game. Remember that bug I told you about with collision detection? The one I pointed out to Mr lead dev guy in tells and in email? Well it went fucking live, and we all get fucked and locked out of the instance when we all experience this first-hand live.

Another example of the above...

To me, this signals a bigtime hands-off approach in EQ2 that differed with WoW, and was a major failure of EQ2 at least when I played. Venekor was their pre-release baby you saw in all the promo vids for the game. We found the exploit early on when he was unkillable, that you could pull him to spots where he basically turned off and stopped doing anything...just sat there and died. Instead of cheesedicking him like this, and trust me the temptation was there, I pulled my guild out and tried getting it fixed through proper channels. Killing shit that way to me means you have no skills, so I opted for the high road. Considering this mob was bugged and had an AoE that hit for like 9k in the early days, he was absolutely unkillable without exploiting, which the guild who killed him first used. The devs knew nothing about this, or even acknowledged the problem, or attempted to fix it for months....with their poster raid dragon. Maybe these internal issues were all fixed down the road, but like the guy quoting Pardo pointed out, after you keep releasing buggy shit time after time it doesn't matter, you already get a reputation for that and people will move to something else.

So when people ask what can be done to improve EQ2, my answer is you will need to change out key employees and get new blood in that actualy care about, and understand the fundamentals, of not only MMORPG's but EQ2, keep up to date on the game, the major problems, how to change it, why to change it, and get some management in there that can get it done right.

If you don't want to hear the correct answer, then quit asking the fucking question or bitching fruitlessly like your airing out your grievances without caring if you see anything get changed or not. Whether you like it or not, or whether some of the trolls here work for SOE or not, this is the answer staring down everyone in the face.

For starters, maybe everyone here should print out 5 copies of what Pardo stated in his speech and mail it to random SOE employees.