T3 Gear Laughable in TBC.

[FoghornDeadhorn]

You can't concurrently tell us to keep raiding if it's fun and say that we should quit because of the massive expenses in doing so. It's simply bad game design to have acquiring Naxx gear be as incredibly expensive as it is and have it trivialized by stuff that is likely to take no more than heal and mana pots in the expansion. Especially with most high-end guilds only halfway through the zone -- what a blow to morale.

Again, if it were merely time spent doing something we enjoy, then so what? We get to be uber for a few months and we get to do what we enjoy to get there. Then we restart the process and have a leg up for five whopping levels. But it's so much more than that. If they knew they were going to treat loot this way they shouldn't have made this the first raid set to require fatty materials to put together, the most expensive key yet, and a really intense, expensive zone with numerous encounters that can only be beaten by the old fraternity theme song:

*CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG CHUG*

[Mist]

Regardless of ANYTHING, Tier 3 is definately going to be useful. Imagine if current level 60 5-10 man zones had the current caps when the game was released? They'd be fucking hard. With tier 3 gear, the 5-10 mans will be fucking easy.

[Angerz]

Maybe to get the level 65 blue better than dreadnaught BP, you need to beat an encounter on par of a scaled down naxx boss in a level 65 ten man dungeon. Give the causals the epic instance theyve been waiting for with just as epic rewards.

Then we will get to hear them cry as they get wiped by the boss, claim its too hard, all the while we have method of gearing apps with less than 40 people.

That would make me giggle some.

[Jubee]

Originally Posted by Cad

I can semi-agree with this.

On the one hand, the loot will be crazy if we're getting blues that are better than naxx in the first wing of hellfire citadel. It does seem a little out there.

On the other hand, there must be tangible upgrades in these dungeons or people will just skip them and race to 70 and never really get a use out of them. I'd rather trivialize your naxx loot than trivialize expansion content, bottom line.

There can be tangible upgrades in the level 65 5 mans, but why do you assume they have to be upgrades to tier 3? Why can't they be huge upgrades over, say, tier .5 or ZG shit? I honestly don't give a shit about the level 65 dungeons. When I'm not raiding, I will be power leveling to 70. I enjoy raiding the same way casuals enjoy bitching about how much leeter my gear is. I don't want to log on and see my GMotD read "Get to 70 fags! PS Naxx canceled, form HFC groups for better loot."

I'm paying out the ass to get a few more STA and DEF on my gear. While I appreciate casuals are worried about much I enjoy expansion content, Johnny Fucking Blacksmith in Hellfire Citadel shouldn't drop an axe that dominates DEoI or the Corrupted Ashbringer. Do you honestly think casuals will be pissed and deem the expansion trivial if their level 70 dungeon sword only has as much DPS as an Iblis?

[Gryzx]

Can someone explain why everyone is using level 65 instead of level 70? Think I missed something somewhere.

[Dyscord]

Originally Posted by FoghornDeadhorn
No dipshit, we're saying having some fucking 65 quest blue being better than shit we busted our asses for and spent countless gobs of gold over in Naxx is retarded.


Originally Posted by FoghornDeadhorn
Wearing T3 epics at level 70 will make you laughable? Levelling-up gear will outstrip? I'm sorry, but you should have to raid in the expansion to outdo your T3 sets. For fucks's sake you had to spend 1kg in mats to make the fucking sets, let's not factor in all the time and consumables it took, if some jackass is five-manning better gear than naxx drops as soon as he hits 70 then all the raiders just got a big, fat slap in the face.

God, I look like an idiot for continuing to argue this, but I'd look like an even bigger one if I let you think you won.

In the overall context of this argument, foghorn might have contradicted himself. But by the virtue of the quotes you posted, the quotes BY THEMSELVES do NOT contradict each other. If you are going to say someone is contradicting themselves, post the proper quotes that ALSO contradict each other.

Again, statement one. A level 65 quest item, obtained solo or in a 5 man group should not be better than naxx.

Again, statement two. A person solo or in a 5 man group should never obtain an item better than naxx.


The two statements can be ambigious yes. The first statement never specifies what happens after level 65. But the only way for those two statements to contradict each other is to add the following to statement one:

No dipshit, we're saying having some fucking 65 quest blue being better than shit we busted our asses for and spent countless gobs of gold over in Naxx is retarded. But after level 65, or around level 70, soloers or 5 man'ers should be able to obtain naxx level items

NOW they contradict.

Dis said it all. If you're going to say something and use quotes, your the proper ones. Don't post two statements that don't contradict each other without the full context of the argument included.

[Arbitrary]

Originally Posted by Dyscord

In the overall context of this argument, foghorn might have contradicted himself. But by the virtue of the quotes you posted, the quotes BY THEMSELVES do NOT contradict each other.

What the fuck are you even arguing? You were here right? You read all the posts? Cad doesn't need to post the entirety and establish the context and do all the legwork for you because you didn't read the complete thread and there for are behind on the point he is trying to make to Foghorn (and not to you).

[holydevil]

I fully agree that in TBC you should have to raid to get better than T3. Casuals I think will be more likely to get raid gear anyways from the old zones. Instead of needed 35 for ragnaros casuals will probably be able to down him with 20 at level 70. The level cap increase kind of implies that better gear will be easier to get in the old world. I don't think that people should be able to get equiv gear without the equiv work that others put into it.

[holydevil]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

What the fuck are you even arguing? You were here right? You read all the posts? Cad doesn't need to post the entirety and establish the context and do all the legwork for you because you didn't read the complete thread and there for are behind on the point he is trying to make to Foghorn (and not to you).

joined 2005 and you have 2005 posts...time to celebrate?

[Northerner]

All I can really say is that gold drops are going to have to increase exponentially as well. Timmy is not going to be thrilled with 40gp repairs unless he can make that kind of money hunting level 65s in an open field somewhere.

It's interesting and potentially a great chance to devalue the gold piece and temporarily put farmers out of business. Assuming that we are going to move to a Nethercanite, Impressive Mana Potion and Quintessence of Air economy, a lot of hoarded materials will be worth almost nothing. Done intelligently you can assure that the new mats are available in more limited or at least more controlled quantities, if indeed you want to put Quuliao the hunter out of business. The gold though is always the rub. If it doesn't scale upwards then we'll be fondly thinking back to the repairs on T3 as the good old days.

[dak]

So, items from Kel'Thuzad, righthand man of the Arthas will be newbie gear with TBC?

He is up there in the lore...

After this I guess it would go Arthas, Lich King, Kil'jaeden, Zombie Sargeras in terms of fat loot progression?

[Dyscord]

Maybe Arthas didn't send Kel'th with very good supplies. The T3 armor we wear is actually just the shit that other fighters wore when they assaulted Naxx. Its not really the lich king's stuff.

I seriously doubt we 'kill' kel'thuzad. Only way to do that is to destroy his phylacrity (sp?). If anything, we just send him packing back to Northrend to a very pissed off Lich King. Naxx isn't so much about killing kel'th anyway. Its more about fighting Naxx itself, a giant bastion, a fortress of the scourge, belching out endless horrors and cementing the Lich King's presence in Azeroth.

[Mist]

I still doubt you will be replacing Kel'Thuzad items until at the minimum very rare Kharazan drops, and Kharazan is gonna be tough if you don't have tier 3 or equivalent.

[Ukerric]

Originally Posted by Gryzx

Can someone explain why everyone is using level 65 instead of level 70? Think I missed something somewhere.

The part where Eyonix says "levelling gear will...". Levelling gear implies gear that you acquire while levelling, so it's before you even hit the level 70 dungeons. He's essentially saying that BRD/LBRS-type gear is going to be better than Naxxaramas.

Which is odd. Extremely odd. Having 5-man gear at 65, let alone 70 that is better than current raiding stuff implies that the difficulty for those people is greater than current raid zones.

And then, you clash straight on with Tigole's interview at E3, where he said that he expected people at 70 to raid Ragnaros... with about 15 people. Not 5, but about 15. That doesn't implies that you gain so much power by 70 that going to MC is the equivalent of getting to Scarlet Monastery (which is also an Eyonix quote) to see it for old time's sakes.

Besides, as people have remarked, that means that essentially, not only all of the dungeon content we have is useless, but every single raid is also... a waste of time. It's then real hard to justify producing a Naxxaramas, which is a zone that less than 5% of your playerbase will be able to enjoy before TBC arrives, and have it becomes completely obsolete and unused a month after that.

That was an excuse advanced to the horde of casuals clamoring for group-level content in basic game. Raiders were coming out and saying, but, after the expansion arrives, you will be able to enjoy those zones, with the advantage of levels. If that vanishes, then all the justification for massive efforts at very high-end raiding instead of producing a new group dungeon vanishes: all are now supposedly becoming equally obsolete.

Your 5-man group instance is going to produce infinitely better gear than something that still requires 15 people to kill? Am I the only one to find this odd? Granted, these days, Blizzard doesn't seem to understand one inch of their game, and have zero strategic vision (lore blunders and cheap-ass class crossover). But still.

If Eyonix's pronouncements are true, then be afraid. Be very afraid. Because that means the inmates have broken out, taken over the asylum, and no one has any idea of what they really do.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Mist-Warsong

and Kharazan is gonna be tough if you don't have tier 3 or equivalent.

By equivalent, you mean TBC blues?

It'd be a not very funny joke if you needed 40-man raid gear to run the 10-man stuff in the expansion.