T3 Gear Laughable in TBC. - Page 3

Cad · 07-26-2006, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spentmotiff

I think you all are missing the major point of TBC: it is moving away from large raids as an endgame. While I am sure they will still be there, from what I've read the majority of the content is based on smaller raids (10-20 people) and group content.

While I'm sure that the Tier 3 gear will still be considered "epic" for a good chunk of TBC, once you hit level 70 I'm guessing a good chunk of the "epic" gear for that level will be found in instances that require fewer members and less guild progression then it currently is now.

I would attribute this directly to the insane number of casual vs. raider posts on the General board, and the responses that came from these discussions.

And it would obviously be a huge slap in the face of that intention if the best gear at level 70 was from level 60 raids rather than level 70 content.

It won't come from raw ilvl I don't think, it'll be from monkeying with the item formula.

Chaid · 07-26-2006, 09:01 AM

With Tseric giving a ballpark of 4Q2006 for TBC's release, I find it difficult to believe that Naxxrammus gear would have so little impact for level 70 raids. Why spend all that development time and effort for content that's going to be a ghost town in 5 months time?

I think Eyonix is full of shit. I'm going to find full replacement gear for my Naxxrammus loot in TBC 5-10 man dungeons before I step foot in level 70 raiding content? Yeah, right.

Dyscord · 07-26-2006, 09:01 AM

I honestly hope they don't move to a 10 man saved instance as the main way to gear up over 40 man raiding. Lets face it, guilds of 50-60 people have some dead weight. At least 15 or so players who simply aren't very good. Then there are only 15 or so REALLY good players. Now you have everyone pairing off into 10 man groups or so to go do content.

The ciques and drama resulting from excluding people is going to be intense.

In a 40 man, we drag these shit bags along just because. In a 10 man though... sorry dude, you ain't coming.

Cad · 07-26-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyscord

I honestly hope they don't move to a 10 man saved instance as the main way to gear up over 40 man raiding. Lets face it, guilds of 50-60 people have some dead weight. At least 15 or so players who simply aren't very good. Then there are only 15 or so REALLY good players. Now you have everyone pairing off into 10 man groups or so to go do content.

The ciques and drama resulting from excluding people is going to be intense.

In a 40 man, we drag these shit bags along just because. In a 10 man though... sorry dude, you ain't coming.

You're actually calling it a positive that you drag stupid people along to 40-mans because you need 40 people?

Holy fucking shit I think I've seen it all...

l0z · 07-26-2006, 09:08 AM

Raise your hand if you replaced your Planar armor with the various pieces of Tolan's/Donal's/Deepwater/Mrylokar etc. armor in Kunark. You were replacing raid gear with single group gear. Yes, two pieces did come from raid targets, but the point stands - base AC value & added effects made the armor more desirable.

In Velious, though there was no level cap increase, single group players could get armor better than the Kunark raid set via Kael & dwarven armor quests.

Offhand, I'd guess that high level (67+) blues in TBC will be of roughly the same power as T2ish armor, though probably not exactly the same, and the level 70 stuff will be comparable, but maybe slightly worse than T3. But that's just an initial guess. I haven't played since Feb '05, so I'm not going to claim omnipotence here.

spentmotiff · 07-26-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyscord

I honestly hope they don't move to a 10 man saved instance as the main way to gear up over 40 man raiding. Lets face it, guilds of 50-60 people have some dead weight. At least 15 or so players who simply aren't very good. Then there are only 15 or so REALLY good players. Now you have everyone pairing off into 10 man groups or so to go do content.

The ciques and drama resulting from excluding people is going to be intense.

In a 40 man, we drag these shit bags along just because. In a 10 man though... sorry dude, you ain't coming.

I think they are going to cave in to the "casuals" in the Casual vs. Raider content issue for one main reason: WoW was based from the ground up to be "casual" from 1-59 and then once you hit 60, bam! raid content to really progress. Now, Blizzard has added in content since then to cater to a more casual environment (PvP, upgrading dungeon sets, etc.) but out of the gates, this was the case.

This was also the main gripe that most people had about WoW: how it was 2 different games, casual from 1-59 and hardcore raider from 60 on.

Granted I've both raided and recently (due to time constaints) have been more casual so I don't care either way, but I would bet this is going to a major factor in progression from here on out.

Not that I see raiding option going away in the TBC, but I definitely see the gear balance between raiding vs. non-raiding content being much much closer then it is now.

Murr · 07-26-2006, 09:14 AM

I wasn't expecting T3 to vastly outstrip blues from the lv65-70 instances, but I was expecting to at least wear the majority of it through 70. As previously stated, why are we raiding Naxx and turning in a fairly large amount of raw materials/gold for armor if we'd be retarded for wearing it over greens from lv65 shit?

Tolanin · 07-26-2006, 09:16 AM

im sure eyonix is just full of it... they wont break the item formula for the expansion that would be retarded.

The only realistic option i see for t3 being outclassed quickly is if its not retroactively given sockets and the new blues are.

Oh and lol if you think the raid game wont still provide the biggest and best of everything in TBC, 5 man and solo content makes up prolly 90 percent of the current game, but the raid game destroys it for gear because its harder... that wont change, wake up.

Samflam · 07-26-2006, 09:26 AM

Quote:

In Velious, though there was no level cap increase, single group players could get armor better than the Kunark raid set via Kael & dwarven armor quests.

But you still had to raid to get these Velious armor peices, for the most part.

Soygen · 07-26-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samflam

But you still had to raid to get these Velious armor peices, for the most part.

/nod When Velious came out, people were not single grouping Kael Arena and Temple of Veeshan trash mobs. I would say that Kunark was the only expansion where single groups were replacing end game loot from the previous "expansion".

l0z · 07-26-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soygen

/nod When Velious came out, people were not single grouping Kael Arena and Temple of Veeshan trash mobs. I would say that Kunark was the only expansion where single groups were replacing end game loot from the previous "expansion".

Not immediately, but within a month or two. Obviously not ToV trash mobs, I don't recall anyone single grouping anything other than HoT trash mobs until after the launch of SoL.

Brand · 07-26-2006, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quineloe

not korean, in korean MMORPGs you fight incredibly gimp monsters for hours and wonder why the fuck this is so boring.

EQ was a Korean game?

Froofy-D · 07-26-2006, 09:36 AM

Hmm I think it is generally acknowledged that Vanilla EQ -> Kunark was totally fubar with respect to mudflation. Walking 10 feet inside Karnors and getting upgrades off trash mobs to Fear/Hate armor was bad design, but back then mudflation wasnt even in most people's vocabulary.

If it is truly the case that TBC 5-man quest blues >= T3 then is there really a point of raiding again until the expansion? Aq40 and Naxx are huge time sinks and money sinks so why bother when you can just get better 5 man gear in a few months.

Kodylan · 07-26-2006, 09:37 AM

I think he's hinting that stuff like Kharazhan epics will kick the shit out of Naxx gear. He worded it oddly, but he said at level 70 it won't be considered endgame gear. Well duh, there will be new raid zones with much better loot at level 70.

Kasonic · 07-26-2006, 09:38 AM

Using the Head slot for a rough comparison:

Tier 3 Epic Set(Roughly ILvl 88-91) = ItemValue of 155-161
Tier 2 Epic Set(ILvl 76) = ItemValue of 136
Tier 1 Epic Set(ILvl 66) = ItemValue of 119
Requires Level 68 Green(ILvl 73) = ItemValue of 79
Requires Level 70 Blue (ILvl 75) = ItemValue of 102

Either they're completely scrapping their formula or rules for item levels or Eyonix is a liar.

Will people be doing MC at level 70? Most likely not. AQ, Naxx? Fuck yes.

07-26-2006, 09:08 AM	#35 (permalink)
l0z Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Solusek Ro Posts: 374 +2 Internets	Raise your hand if you replaced your Planar armor with the various pieces of Tolan's/Donal's/Deepwater/Mrylokar etc. armor in Kunark. You were replacing raid gear with single group gear. Yes, two pieces did come from raid targets, but the point stands - base AC value & added effects made the armor more desirable. In Velious, though there was no level cap increase, single group players could get armor better than the Kunark raid set via Kael & dwarven armor quests. Offhand, I'd guess that high level (67+) blues in TBC will be of roughly the same power as T2ish armor, though probably not exactly the same, and the level 70 stuff will be comparable, but maybe slightly worse than T3. But that's just an initial guess. I haven't played since Feb '05, so I'm not going to claim omnipotence here. __________________ -N

07-26-2006, 09:14 AM	#37 (permalink)
Murr Token Gnome Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,076 +16 Internets	I wasn't expecting T3 to vastly outstrip blues from the lv65-70 instances, but I was expecting to at least wear the majority of it through 70. As previously stated, why are we raiding Naxx and turning in a fairly large amount of raw materials/gold for armor if we'd be retarded for wearing it over greens from lv65 shit? __________________ rogue \| mage

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07-26-2006, 09:01 AM	#32 (permalink)
Chaid I'm your huckleberry. Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hotlanta Posts: 591 -1 Internets	With Tseric giving a ballpark of 4Q2006 for TBC's release, I find it difficult to believe that Naxxrammus gear would have so little impact for level 70 raids. Why spend all that development time and effort for content that's going to be a ghost town in 5 months time? I think Eyonix is full of shit. I'm going to find full replacement gear for my Naxxrammus loot in TBC 5-10 man dungeons before I step foot in level 70 raiding content? Yeah, right.

07-26-2006, 09:01 AM	#33 (permalink)
Dyscord Harvey Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Command Carrier Posts: 2,163 +34 Internets	I honestly hope they don't move to a 10 man saved instance as the main way to gear up over 40 man raiding. Lets face it, guilds of 50-60 people have some dead weight. At least 15 or so players who simply aren't very good. Then there are only 15 or so REALLY good players. Now you have everyone pairing off into 10 man groups or so to go do content. The ciques and drama resulting from excluding people is going to be intense. In a 40 man, we drag these shit bags along just because. In a 10 man though... sorry dude, you ain't coming.

07-26-2006, 09:16 AM	#38 (permalink)
Tolanin h8 Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,325 -34 Internets	im sure eyonix is just full of it... they wont break the item formula for the expansion that would be retarded. The only realistic option i see for t3 being outclassed quickly is if its not retroactively given sockets and the new blues are. Oh and lol if you think the raid game wont still provide the biggest and best of everything in TBC, 5 man and solo content makes up prolly 90 percent of the current game, but the raid game destroys it for gear because its harder... that wont change, wake up.

07-26-2006, 09:36 AM	#43 (permalink)
Froofy-D upper management material Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,188 +17 Internets	Hmm I think it is generally acknowledged that Vanilla EQ -> Kunark was totally fubar with respect to mudflation. Walking 10 feet inside Karnors and getting upgrades off trash mobs to Fear/Hate armor was bad design, but back then mudflation wasnt even in most people's vocabulary. If it is truly the case that TBC 5-man quest blues >= T3 then is there really a point of raiding again until the expansion? Aq40 and Naxx are huge time sinks and money sinks so why bother when you can just get better 5 man gear in a few months.

07-26-2006, 09:37 AM	#44 (permalink)
Kodylan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,255 -1 Internets	I think he's hinting that stuff like Kharazhan epics will kick the shit out of Naxx gear. He worded it oddly, but he said at level 70 it won't be considered endgame gear. Well duh, there will be new raid zones with much better loot at level 70.

07-26-2006, 09:38 AM	#45 (permalink)
Kasonic dumb Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,627 +1 Internets	Using the Head slot for a rough comparison: Tier 3 Epic Set(Roughly ILvl 88-91) = ItemValue of 155-161 Tier 2 Epic Set(ILvl 76) = ItemValue of 136 Tier 1 Epic Set(ILvl 66) = ItemValue of 119 Requires Level 68 Green(ILvl 73) = ItemValue of 79 Requires Level 70 Blue (ILvl 75) = ItemValue of 102 Either they're completely scrapping their formula or rules for item levels or Eyonix is a liar. Will people be doing MC at level 70? Most likely not. AQ, Naxx? Fuck yes.