T3 Gear Laughable in TBC.

[Fratley]

The only way this would work is if AQ40/Naxx caliber gear was required to be efficient at all at leveling to 70. That way, you use T3 to get to lvl 63, where you can get bcT1, use that to get to lvl 67, where you can get bcT2 which you use to max level. Meanwhile, Little Timmy can't fight past the mobs on the other side of the portal. That's just about the only way it would work.

However, this is Blizzard. Little Timmy will be given an entire set of T5 as soon as he logs on along with a letter from Blizzard in his mailbox apologizing for making him log on for more than 5 minutes a day to collect his shiny new free armor.

I'm sorry if you think you Itemized incorrectly, Blizzard, but making two entire years of raiding pointless is not the way to fix it.

Same goes for Alliance Shaman / Horde Paladins. This must be the cheapest way of fixing faction imbalance I have ever seen.

[Samflam]

Blizzard claims that Paladin and Shaman won't be the classes we know them as come level 70. I'm having a hard time believing that they have a plan laid out at all. It certainly feels like they just caved in and make a snap decision on this.
But then again, it might explain why the shaman community has been completely ignored ever since 1.11 (fuck you Eyonix, by the way.)
Oh well, no point in speculating till the expansion is out and I can see first hand.

[Cad]

They need to start the beta already so we can see a complete list of features/changes.

BTW does anyone know how you get into the beta besides the leveling contest stuff? Does having a release day account matter to them? I was also in closed beta since the SM-patch days.

[Sancus]

Karazhan is supposed to be the 10-man in the style of current raid instances, that is, extremely difficult bosses with a lockout timer and saved instance system as existing 20 and 40-mans.

That said, if you can get significant upgrades to T3 ANYWHERE outside 10+ man end-game level 70 instances, I certainly won't be playing the Expansion.

[Felonius]

Originally Posted by Cad

They need to start the beta already so we can see a complete list of features/changes.

BTW does anyone know how you get into the beta besides the leveling contest stuff? Does having a release day account matter to them? I was also in closed beta since the SM-patch days.

I doubt it, I was in alpha 1 (human phase) and haven't heard a word yet on beta.

[Tuco]

I'm willing to bet that Kharazan will be as difficult to currently non-epic'd players as Strath/scholo was back when we all hit 60 (5 man). Certainly doable, but not easy.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it'd be as difficult as 5man BRD at level 55 with standard level 55 gear.

In other words, T3 players will blow through Kharazan as quickly as we all blew through AQ20, and will be on farm status before it even starts.

Sure, I could be eating my words once we start seeing beta infoz, but so will anyone else who makes detailed assumptions about the expansion.

[Samflam]

Still going to be pretty cool to have your special L33T 10 man team for it.
Also, a good source of guild drama=P

[Cad]

The only way karazhan makes sense as a "difficult, epic 10-man" is if it's a level playing field for everyone.

Here's how I see them laying it out. By the time you're "geared" for Karazhan, you'll either be in full TBC gear acquired via outlands quests and 5-10mans with no lockouts, or you'll be in T3 and can skip all that. These should be relatively equal in power level.

Karazhan will be the "Tier 1" raid instance, giving the first real taste of TBC epic loot. You will gear up here for the 20 and 40-mans added with TBC.

Based on the "success" of Karazhan, they will decide how to scale future raid content. Whether it be more 10-mans because it was immensely popular - or back to the 40-man routine because the use rate wasn't much higher than the 40-man stuff they made previously.

If I were Blizzard, thats what I'd do. Don't flame me based on me not knowing what Blizz is going to do - obviously I have no idea. Just tossing my opinion out as to how it would work if I were in charge.

[Tuco]

It seems like a good route to take.

I was actually thinking they would use Karazhan to equip people to T3 gear, and then the next 20 man raid would be where everyone would be at an equal play level.

[Sancus]

You don't need equal itemlevel gear for there to be a "levelling playing field". It would be easily possible to outdo existing T3 by simply designing the gear better for a lot of classes, even at a lower itemlevel.

There is still a great deal of waste in T3, at least for casters.

Of course, I don't believe in an equal playing field at all. It's a pipe dream that simply doesn't exist. People say they want it because it's cute and "nice". But in actuality, nobody wants an equal playing field, everyone wants to be the most powerful and they want to do it with the least amount of time and effort possible, because being powerful is fun.

Being equal, "balanced", "reasonable", "appropriate" is not fun.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Tuco

It seems like a good route to take.

I was actually thinking they would use Karazhan to equip people to T3 gear, and then the next 20 man raid would be where everyone would be at an equal play level.

Depends on how serious they are about making small-group content I guess. 20 man is certainly better than 40 man as far as group size, but IMO 10-15 is more or less ideal for me. I'd rather they have a very serious Tier 1 instance that is 10-man, make this the "gateway" raid like MC is for old-world. This will give everyone a taste of it, and they can get feedback and usage numbers based on this. Then the content they add post-expac release can take this feedback into account.

If you make Karazhan a noob-stomp for people already in T3 gear, the feedback from the old-world raiders will be that it was a waste of an instance and can they please not waste time making trivial shit like this for noob casuals again. If they make it require T3-level gear to complete and have the expac-content pre-Karazhan give that gear, everyone will be level and it would be appropriate difficulty level for old-world raiders and small-group folks alike.

[Tuco]

Which casters have a lot of waste? I know the priest set only has int/spi/sta/+healing/+mana regen.

Certainly I could say, "Well, change all int/spi/sta to +healing/mana" and I'd probably want that set more, but I don't think that's the best choice to do.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Sancus

You don't need equal itemlevel gear for there to be a "levelling playing field". It would be easily possible to outdo existing T3 by simply designing the gear better for a lot of classes, even at a lower itemlevel.

There is still a great deal of waste in T3, at least for casters.

Of course, I don't believe in an equal playing field at all. It's a pipe dream that simply doesn't exist. People say they want it because it's cute and "nice". But in actuality, nobody wants an equal playing field, everyone wants to be the most powerful and they want to do it with the least amount of time and effort possible, because being powerful is fun.

Being equal, "balanced", "reasonable", "appropriate" is not fun.

You level the playing field for content in TBC or the content will be wasted for somebody. If the playing field is not leveled, most of the initial raids will be a joke for people in naxx gear, and you will D/E most of the loot. Is that what you want?

Alternatively if naxx-quality gear is obtainable in some fashion in Outland (whether it be via socketed blues or epic quests within the 5-10 mans) then they can design the opening raids to tune for that level gear - and everyone can use the content.

More people using the content > your e-peen.

[Sancus]

Originally Posted by Tuco

Which casters have a lot of waste? I know the priest set only has int/spi/sta/+healing/+mana regen.

Certainly I could say, "Well, change all int/spi/sta to +healing/mana" and I'd probably want that set more, but I don't think that's the best choice to do.

The mage set has Int as it's singular highest stat when Int is the worst stat available to a mage, and the cost of spiking it is extreme compared to what you could do if you dropped it some.

For example, over the 8pc set you could add 24 damage, 23 spirit, and switch the 4spellhit/4crit to 3spellhit/6crit and remain at roughly the same itemlevel for a cost of a mere 27 int.

Given that we now know that pallies will be available to Horde, I would be inclined to ditch that Spirit for an additional 15 or 20 damage, making the resulting set at least 20% more powerful damage-wise than the existing one at effectively no real loss.

Originally Posted by Cad

Some stuff I dont even bother to read anymore

Silly casual, epics are for raiders.

[Tuco]

Alternatively if naxx-quality gear is obtainable in some fashion in Outland (whether it be via socketed blues or epic quests within the 5-10 mans) then they can design the opening raids to tune for that level gear - and everyone can use the content.

More people using the content > your e-peen.

And make every old-world dungeon unused.