World PvP preview [WoW] - Page 5

Abalieno · 07-13-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bizanich

Lets say Guild A takes a node and says bring it on. They need people to bring it on to get the PvP points.

Yes, as in every PvP game, you need enemy players to get points. It happens in DAoC, it happens in WoW. If there aren't other players, no points.

The goal of a PvP system is to be fun and provide an excuse for a fight. A context, a strong motivation. Some persistence.

Quote:

Opposing faction doesn't like Guild A, so they don't go fight Guild A to essentially give them points, they go elsewhere (or a BG if they're still around). They go to a different node where an enemy guild they like is, and they swap kills to get the points to buy stuff.

Swapping kills is another problem that should be solved elsewhere. It also already happen in WoW, so it's not something that my idea triggers that wasn't there before.

Of course you cannot add to the game a bunch of hotspots because the essence of PvP is about a convergence of players. So it's just bad to have one hotspot for each guild.

On top of that, capping an hotspot with your flag gives you a sudden burst of points. This type of reward comes from a sort of bounty pool. As people get killed around the zone, a part of their points is added to a bounty pool that keeps raising. When the hotspot switches sides, the side who capped it receives the cumulative reward.

So, if a guild is holding an hotspot from a long time, there's an incentive for the enemy faction to go there and conquer it.

Bizanich · 07-13-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abalieno

Yes, as in every PvP game, you need enemy players to get points. It happens in DAoC, it happens in WoW. If there aren't other players, no points.

The goal of a PvP system is to be fun and provide an excuse for a fight. A context, a strong motivation. Some persistence.

Swapping kills is another problem that should be solved elsewhere. It also already happen in WoW, so it's not something that my idea triggers that wasn't there before.

Of course you cannot add to the game a bunch of hotspots because the essence of PvP is about a convergence of players. So it's just bad to have one hotspot for each guild.

On top of that, capping an hotspot with your flag gives you a sudden burst of points. This type of reward comes from a sort of bounty pool. As people get killed around the zone, a part of their points is added to a bounty pool that keeps raising. When the hotspot switches sides, the side who capped it receives the cumulative reward.

So, if a guild is holding an hotspot from a long time, there's an incentive for the enemy faction to go there and conquer it.

Just Devil's Advocating it

Your system would make it much easier to cooperate then it already is, though. X-server BG's will make it a lot harder. Having a cumulative reward makes it even worse.

"Oh, hey guys. Yeah, cap it, snag the cumulative reward before your AQ raid, then we'll take it back. Have fun on C'thun!"

And you can't say "We'll solve swapping kills elsewhere." You have to deal with it head on if there are any rewards.

Zehn - Vhex · 07-13-2006, 02:59 PM

Abal, it wouldn't work. It's good in concept, but it just won't work. Play enough AB games where the alliance just does a 15 man turtle on top of the stables and unless you're stacked with mages, you're better off just not fucking bothering. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've said in Vent, "Don't bother guys, we're just feeding them honor."

So the Horde rolls up to a pvp target, sees 200 alliance milling about, says "fuck it" and just goes back to rolling pugs in BG's.

The biggest thing they could do, and I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, is to simply allow characters to defect between factions. Within half a year the population imbalance will pretty much fix itself, raid imbalance will be fixed and all the associated problems with population and paladin faggotry in PvP will be fixed. It's so goddamn simple.

Nerion · 07-13-2006, 03:32 PM

Outdoor BG != World PvP, fuck Blizz in the eye this might be enough for me to quit right here

Also, why would the buff from silithus only help you in AQ20 and not 40? That is some gayed up shit.

Bizanich · 07-13-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerion

Outdoor BG != World PvP, fuck Blizz in the eye this might be enough for me to quit right here

Also, why would the buff from silithus only help you in AQ20 and not 40? That is some gayed up shit.

Probably because the PvP'ers would've exploded even further then they are. Same reason the buff isn't helping in Naxxramas.

I dunno, the more I think about it the more I think it's impossible to have the good old days (ahaha, can't believe I'm saying that already) of WoW world PvP with instanced dungeons, BG's, the honor system, DK's, and civilians.

The best that can be done at this point is to remove DK's and civilians to encourage city raids again..besides that? Instancing actually did hurt and kill the rest.

Doing away with the honor grind, entirely, would be the other thing as people would once again go across the world and be dicks by blockading instance entrances more and just attacking everywhere (oh, the days when Chillwind Point was besieged in WPL..)...but then I don't know how you would award the armor/weapons.

Nerion · 07-13-2006, 03:54 PM

I think there is a way to have world pvp work and fix the current system: http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorp...nds-etc-2.html

Honestly, the more I play this game the more I think Blizzard is some fucking control-freak elementary school teacher who doesn't allow her children to play real football but only touch football so nobody can get hurt. I don't care what anyone says, world pvp involves the WORLD. This stupid two zone crap so everyone can do their own merry thing and be disconeccted from everyone else is retarded. One of the huge drawing features of this genre is the feeling you get of being connected to everything in the world in some sense. This is not some conspiracy bullshit, Blizzard does not want real competition because that involves winners and loser. Also they are trying to stereotype players into pvpers and pvers by completely seperating any dependency on the other. I had really high hopes for this that I could take my high end raiding gear and take over some cities and get a world buff or something exciting.

Olio · 07-13-2006, 04:04 PM

I'm not seeing any reason to defend either resource.

Hebbin · 07-13-2006, 04:17 PM

I don't pvp in WoW. Then again, my bicycle didn't come with training wheels, a helmet, elbowpads, mouthguard, and cup.

I will also be the first to admit that UO, Shadowbane, and Sullon Zek style pvp isn't for everyone. Once you get hooked on it though, you can never go back.

Hardcore Cracka · 07-13-2006, 04:28 PM

Yeah, this is just watered down flavorless bullshit, and everyone knows it. I'm pretty happy that I cancelled my account long ago, right when I knew that C'Thun was an artificial wall.

Araxen · 07-13-2006, 05:54 PM

WoW PVP needs a system like DAOC's. You could call them Faction points(DAOC calls them Realm Points) in WoW and have Ranks with a set amount of Faction points to achieve that rank.

100 Faction Points = Grunt = Whatever gear or pvp skills you get a grunt
1000 Faction Points = Tool = Whatever gear or pvp skills you get at grunt
10,000 Faction points = etc = etc, etc ,etc.....

You don't compete against anybody with the bastardise pvp ladder crap system they have now. You could also put in PVP only skills that only work in PVP and offer them as a reward for so many Faction Points. This would make PVP much more enjoyable for everyone than it is now.

I like that they have wise up to World PVP a little. World PVP is just so much more fun than the "wait in line" pvp system they have now with the bg's.

Zierain · 07-13-2006, 05:59 PM

I've always agreed, keep it simple.

The linear system would be best.

I think it would take a bit of retooling for the set amount of honor to reach each rank though.

I could see like

5000-> Rank2
25000 -> Rank3
60000-> Rank4
140000-> Rank 5

Etc, and just kinda exponentially grow, I know I've heard of people getting 1 million + honor in a week, soo

rank14 would be around 15-16million. Still would take time. A long time, just you didnt have to do it all in 1 run that you played 24/7 to be #1 =/

Olio · 07-13-2006, 06:03 PM

We've been over the linear pvp points system before. They should have done it that way just so they could add new ranks with gear rather than keep handing the GMs gear for life as the rest of the game mudflates along. What are they going to do when the expansion hits? Hand the rank 13s the best gear in the game on the day it opens? Seems unlikely.

It's a big change and I wouldn't expect to see it in until Expansion time reguardless. You'd have to work it so you didn't piss of the current rank 12s when you rolled out the change.

Olio

Linus · 07-13-2006, 07:11 PM

I think the biggest issue with Blizzard and PvP is that they're trying to be all things to all PvPers, and in the process, really pleasing none of them.

Blizz just needs to bite the bullet, say "This is the way we do things, this is the direction we're going, and we're not going to change it, so if you don't like it, go elsewhere." But they won't do that, and we end up with the current state of PvP...

Jabberwhacky · 07-13-2006, 07:42 PM

It seems to me like Blizzard is saying "this is the way we do things" in that they give us shitty PvP. They aren't "saying" it but we all "get it" from choices like this EPIC WORLD WINNER-TAKE-AZEROTH PVP!!!!

Cad · 07-13-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zierain

I've always agreed, keep it simple.

The linear system would be best.

I think it would take a bit of retooling for the set amount of honor to reach each rank though.

I could see like

5000-> Rank2
25000 -> Rank3
60000-> Rank4
140000-> Rank 5

Etc, and just kinda exponentially grow, I know I've heard of people getting 1 million + honor in a week, soo

rank14 would be around 15-16million. Still would take time. A long time, just you didnt have to do it all in 1 run that you played 24/7 to be #1 =/

15-16 million is out of hand. For a single player playing a few hours a day 5 days a week, you can make perhaps 150k honor for 20-25 hours investment if you win 50-60% of your games.

That'd be like 100 weeks or almost 2 years to hit rank 14 at that rate. Perhaps 4-5 million is more in line.

07-13-2006, 03:32 PM	#64 (permalink)
Nerion likes to hear himself talk Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 424	Outdoor BG != World PvP, fuck Blizz in the eye this might be enough for me to quit right here Also, why would the buff from silithus only help you in AQ20 and not 40? That is some gayed up shit. Last edited by Nerion; 07-13-2006 at 03:36 PM..

07-13-2006, 04:28 PM	#69 (permalink)
Hardcore Cracka Majestik Moose Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,614	Yeah, this is just watered down flavorless bullshit, and everyone knows it. I'm pretty happy that I cancelled my account long ago, right when I knew that C'Thun was an artificial wall. __________________

07-13-2006, 05:54 PM	#70 (permalink)
Araxen A Bearded Gnome Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Near Chicago, IL Posts: 4,863	WoW PVP needs a system like DAOC's. You could call them Faction points(DAOC calls them Realm Points) in WoW and have Ranks with a set amount of Faction points to achieve that rank. 100 Faction Points = Grunt = Whatever gear or pvp skills you get a grunt 1000 Faction Points = Tool = Whatever gear or pvp skills you get at grunt 10,000 Faction points = etc = etc, etc ,etc..... You don't compete against anybody with the bastardise pvp ladder crap system they have now. You could also put in PVP only skills that only work in PVP and offer them as a reward for so many Faction Points. This would make PVP much more enjoyable for everyone than it is now. I like that they have wise up to World PVP a little. World PVP is just so much more fun than the "wait in line" pvp system they have now with the bg's. __________________ PSN: Araxen http://www.last.fm/user/araxen The Best FAQ on the Internet: The Official God FAQ

07-13-2006, 05:59 PM	#71 (permalink)
Zierain Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Here Posts: 307 +1 Internets	I've always agreed, keep it simple. The linear system would be best. I think it would take a bit of retooling for the set amount of honor to reach each rank though. I could see like 5000-> Rank2 25000 -> Rank3 60000-> Rank4 140000-> Rank 5 Etc, and just kinda exponentially grow, I know I've heard of people getting 1 million + honor in a week, soo rank14 would be around 15-16million. Still would take time. A long time, just you didnt have to do it all in 1 run that you played 24/7 to be #1 =/ __________________ Sersly - Ner'Zhul

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07-13-2006, 02:59 PM	#63 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,705 +165 Internets	Abal, it wouldn't work. It's good in concept, but it just won't work. Play enough AB games where the alliance just does a 15 man turtle on top of the stables and unless you're stacked with mages, you're better off just not fucking bothering. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've said in Vent, "Don't bother guys, we're just feeding them honor." So the Horde rolls up to a pvp target, sees 200 alliance milling about, says "fuck it" and just goes back to rolling pugs in BG's. The biggest thing they could do, and I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, is to simply allow characters to defect between factions. Within half a year the population imbalance will pretty much fix itself, raid imbalance will be fixed and all the associated problems with population and paladin faggotry in PvP will be fixed. It's so goddamn simple.

07-13-2006, 03:54 PM	#66 (permalink)
Nerion likes to hear himself talk Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 424	I think there is a way to have world pvp work and fix the current system: http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorp...nds-etc-2.html Honestly, the more I play this game the more I think Blizzard is some fucking control-freak elementary school teacher who doesn't allow her children to play real football but only touch football so nobody can get hurt. I don't care what anyone says, world pvp involves the WORLD. This stupid two zone crap so everyone can do their own merry thing and be disconeccted from everyone else is retarded. One of the huge drawing features of this genre is the feeling you get of being connected to everything in the world in some sense. This is not some conspiracy bullshit, Blizzard does not want real competition because that involves winners and loser. Also they are trying to stereotype players into pvpers and pvers by completely seperating any dependency on the other. I had really high hopes for this that I could take my high end raiding gear and take over some cities and get a world buff or something exciting.

07-13-2006, 04:04 PM	#67 (permalink)
Olio Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 388 -2 Internets	I'm not seeing any reason to defend either resource.

07-13-2006, 04:17 PM	#68 (permalink)
Hebbin Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 59 +0 Internets	I don't pvp in WoW. Then again, my bicycle didn't come with training wheels, a helmet, elbowpads, mouthguard, and cup. I will also be the first to admit that UO, Shadowbane, and Sullon Zek style pvp isn't for everyone. Once you get hooked on it though, you can never go back.

07-13-2006, 06:03 PM	#72 (permalink)
Olio Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 388 -2 Internets	We've been over the linear pvp points system before. They should have done it that way just so they could add new ranks with gear rather than keep handing the GMs gear for life as the rest of the game mudflates along. What are they going to do when the expansion hits? Hand the rank 13s the best gear in the game on the day it opens? Seems unlikely. It's a big change and I wouldn't expect to see it in until Expansion time reguardless. You'd have to work it so you didn't piss of the current rank 12s when you rolled out the change. Olio

07-13-2006, 07:11 PM	#73 (permalink)
Linus had the chance to ask the world to dance Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Midlothian Posts: 244 +1 Internets	I think the biggest issue with Blizzard and PvP is that they're trying to be all things to all PvPers, and in the process, really pleasing none of them. Blizz just needs to bite the bullet, say "This is the way we do things, this is the direction we're going, and we're not going to change it, so if you don't like it, go elsewhere." But they won't do that, and we end up with the current state of PvP...

07-13-2006, 07:42 PM	#74 (permalink)
Jabberwhacky Walker told me I have AIDS Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Busan Posts: 3,325	It seems to me like Blizzard is saying "this is the way we do things" in that they give us shitty PvP. They aren't "saying" it but we all "get it" from choices like this EPIC WORLD WINNER-TAKE-AZEROTH PVP!!!!