New VG vid

[Tuco]

For UI: MMOs need to start leaning back toward alerting the player what's going on in game by showing them it going on ingame, rather than showing them in the UI.

As a priest in WoW, and a modder that adds any new critical boss mob info to a UI(We're on the cutting edge of content and I have a new boss mod up within minutes of finding out what he does/combat log etc), I really do think the blizzard UI is too powerful and too critical. I have to look at 40 bars to heal my raid, I'm alerted with big noisy letters anytime something happens, and now I have little bars on my screen that count down to new abilities like Locust Swarm or Shout from Razuvious.

They need to get rid of a lot of stuff I can do, and force players to look ingame to find information.

[Lleauaric~EW]

Originally Posted by Neric

Lol, how ridiculous! I wonder where he was located when he designed the old UIs which were certainly "good enough".

Somebody call Pavlov... his dog is loose again.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Lleauaric~EW

Somebody call Pavlov... his dog is loose again.

While it is rather questionable if TKing could improve on his artwork by moving to San Diego, you should certainly give it a try.

[holymight]

Originally Posted by Neric

While it is rather questionable if TKing could improve on his artwork by moving to San Diego, you should certainly give it a try.

It's not about "improving his artwork" because good UI design has nothing to do with artwork. It's about being in the same time zone as the rest of the team. It's about being able to sit down at the same table with print-outs of designs and being able to discuss them, in person. It's about being able to demo his interface designs, in person. It is about being able to explain something to a programmer or artists that need a quick question answered, in person. It's about being able to respond timely to requests from the team.

Doing something as major as the entire UI for a MMO without actually being in the same room as everybody else is stupid and ineffective.

[Neric]

You mean like the days when he was in the same timezone and discussed things with the SoE team while he designed his EQ UIs?

[Eomer]

I think people complaining that VG's UI is too close to WoW's need a reality check. Every shoot em up, pure action FPS has virtually the same UI with different window dressing. No one's accusing Crytek of ripping id off. Most similar RTS's have pretty much identical UI's and ways of controlling units and mapping hotkeys, yet no one's giving EA shit for ripping off Blizzard.

The fact of the matter is, if the gameplay of two games are quite similar, the UI is going to require similar functionality and features, and chances are the UI from one game to the next is going to look pretty familiar.

[Dynalisia]

Originally Posted by Neric

You mean like the days when he was in the same timezone and discussed things with the SoE team while he designed his EQ UIs?

Having to design the basic UI for a new game during development is quite a bit diffirent from grafting your own unique graphics onto an UI that already exists and has been in use for some time, despite of how much apparant support SOE gave him.

[Lweniel]

Originally Posted by Dynalisia

Having to design the basic UI for a new game during development is quite a bit diffirent from grafting your own unique graphics onto an UI that already exists and has been in use for some time, despite of how much apparant support SOE gave him.

I never liked his stuff anyway. Far too much high frequency fiddly bits. Ironicly I replaced all my EQ1 spell icons with Warcraft ability icons, because they were really recognisable with iconic images, and good colour use.

[Chaid]

Originally Posted by Esmo

Currently that do not plan on that kind of functionality. Brad dislikes the amount of flexibility WoW's UI provides. Basically - he wants less sandbox and more theme park influenced design for the UI. About all Sigil wants people to be able to do is change parameters/settings - no addons at all.

If Brad continues to ignore features that players want/demand, his sandbox is going to be quite lonely. He needs to look at this from a fresh perspective, not the same one he used when deciding to make people stare at spellbooks for 35 levels.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Dynalisia

Having to design the basic UI for a new game during development is quite a bit diffirent from grafting your own unique graphics onto an UI that already exists and has been in use for some time, despite of how much apparant support SOE gave him.

Fact is that artists cannot be replaced, that's what art is all about. So if you want TKing UIs and he doesn't want to move to SD, you need to outsource the job. That's the simple and most obvious solution. Working on UIs can be outsourced easily. That's what all the custom UIs are about after all.

This is just another example of "do you want the man or the principle". Funny, but this problem occurs everywhere from guilds to RL. Usually guildleaders, producers, bosses etc. decide in favor of the principle because they fear to set a precedent and in 99% of the cases that decision is wrong. These people don't know what the word "exception" stands for and when to use it. In fact knowing when and where to make an exception divides the good decision maker from the bad one.

Exceptions have to be made to solve a conflict of principles. Here the principles of equal treatment of employees and the quality of the product collide. In order to solve it they have to decide what is more important and that is the quality of the product. If the product sucks, nobody will buy it and the company is doomed. So they better make the product as good as possible or all of their glorious principles go down the drain.

Sounds simple? It sure is, when you think about it...it is applied logic in it's purest form.

The point is that whenever you make an exception you have to explain exactly why you did so and people won't complain.

P.S.: Personally I didn't use TKings UIs. I prefer the simple approach without any fancy decoration, but that's a matter of taste of course.

[Gnome Eater]

I am very grateful that you are not in charge of designing an MMORPG Neric, because wanting to play arm-chair quarterback you lack any idea on how to run a company or design a MMORPG. The same is also true for the vast majority of the people who post here, the difference is people here are for the most part intelligent enough to know this and thus offer their opinion as that, instead of trying to pass it off as some greater truth and sounding like a total moron.

About the WoW UI - it is nice and allows someone to be lazy, but it is far too powerful and I defently wish that some mods like decursive or emergency monitors were removed. It makes certain tasks way too trivial, and forces developers to make encounters assuming players use certain tools.

[kcxiv]

Didnt seem that bad, since its recorded and on fucking youtube. They have poor video quality there no matter what. I though WoW was going o be cool from video's i seen of it, then i played it n realized it was a piece of shit.


some people will like it, some wont. Long as i can't solo my way to max level with any class, i probalby will like it. I like grouping aspect of mmo's anyways. If i didnt, i would be playing console 1 player games.


Still cant really say shit til your behind the wheel playing.

[holymight]

Originally Posted by Neric

Fact is that artists cannot be replaced, that's what art is all about. So if you want TKing UIs and he doesn't want to move to SD, you need to outsource the job. That's the simple and most obvious solution. Working on UIs can be outsourced easily. That's what all the custom UIs are about after all.

Good UI design does not require an artist, nor is it an art in the classical sense. You're talking about things you don't understand.

[FohMD]

Originally Posted by holymight

Good UI design does not require an artist, nor is it an art in the classical sense. You're talking about things you don't understand.

Neric? Never...

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

I am very grateful that you are not in charge of designing an MMORPG Neric, because wanting to play arm-chair quarterback you lack any idea on how to run a company or design a MMORPG. The same is also true for the vast majority of the people who post here, the difference is people here are for the most part intelligent enough to know this and thus offer their opinion as that, instead of trying to pass it off as some greater truth and sounding like a total moron.

I told about the logic behind finding a solution to a conflict of interests. If you don't understand or don't want to accept it, that's your problem. Honestly, I can't waste another 20 minutes to explain it over and over again. Either you accept that or you don't...

Originally Posted by holymight

Good UI design does not require an artist, nor is it an art in the classical sense. You're talking about things you don't understand.

You are talking about the practical aspects of UIs, but that's way off for this subject. TKing UIs are mainly known for their stylish graphics and in this case, yes it does require an artist.

http://p206.ezboard.com/fmaximus9478...icID=407.topic