Hero Classes dead in the water

[Runnen]

I always figured the Steam Tonks at the Darkmoon Faire were prototypes for a future implementation of steamtanks, balistas, catapults and meatwagons.

[Digo]

First, siege weapons were only used against static defenses, so the only time they'd really be useful in present battlegrounds would be against bunkers or the keeps in Alterac Valley. Are you really going to spend the resources to create a siege weapon to clear the blacksmith in AB or a flagroom in WSG? Somehow I doubt it.

Now, if they implement world pvp with towers or bunkers that need to be fortified, upgraded, and defended, then yeah, I could see them being more useful.


Siege warfare in DAOC worked like this:

Crafters had to build siege weapons on the spot. They purchased the materials from vendors or other crafters and carried them around out in the frontiers where the fighting took place. I'll pause here for a moment so the peanut gallery can start their emo seething about repair costs, consumables, siege weapons.

Right, moving on. When you reached the keep you wanted to siege, you create the item where you want it to be placed. They were immovable. Then, you click and take control of the siege weapon and turn your character to fire it. There really wasn't a targetting reticle, if I remember correctly. It just sort of demolished everything in its path. There was nothing funnier than watching people charging out from a keep right into firing range of an onager.

There were also battering rams that could be built anywhere and pushed up to doors. People then manned the battering ram and starting beating down the door. Of course, AEers on the other side would be blasting the shit out of them trying to destroy the ram while the attackers tried to repair it.

The doors themselves could be upgraded by paying gold. (Oh god, the horror! DAoC had repair costs, too! What were they thinking omfg?) You could also pay to have the keep guards upgraded.

Siege warfare was pretty similar to real life. Battering rams would take down the door while the defenders used AE attacks. Spellcasters would try to pick off people on the walls while defending archers and spellcasters rained death down on their attackers. Healers hung out inside the keep walls to rez people that got blasted. Stealthers would climb the walls (I so want this ability in WoW) and shank people on the walls, or in some truly awesome cases, have 10+ rogues sneak up to the keep captain NPC and assassinate him, automatically capping the entire keep.

I played a bunch of different characters in battlegrounds and have to say that this was the most fun I ever had in any MMORPG. Keep warfare was awesome.

[Runnen]

I could see Siege Weapons being very fun in a Battleground designed specifically around their use in everyday warfare. I don't think implementing the system in AV, WSG or AB would have any use beside a fun gimmick that has 99% chances to be crappy.

[Kasonic]

I don't see why everyone is burning Blizzard in effigy over this. Who here is honestly surprised about this? We haven't heard a fucking word about hero classes since open beta. If they were actually working on it, they would've been milking what's probably their biggest lure to current players for all it's worth.

It doesn't surprise me, and I don't really care, either. Talents rendered the idea of specialized classes obsolete a long time ago, and balancing these hero classes(assuming you have just two options per class) would a fucking nightmare. And that's not even thinking about balancing heroes versus current players/content or anything like that.

It was a pipe dream, nothing more. That should've been obvious quite some time ago.

[Hardcore Cracka]

I'm not really surprised about it, but it isn't like Blizzard doesn't have the resources to make it work. They are just lazy slobs.

[Digo]

Originally Posted by Hardcore Cracka

I'm not really surprised about it, but it isn't like Blizzard doesn't have the resources to make it work. They are just lazy slobs.

Right, and all the aforementioned reasons obviously have nothing to do with it. Do you fling arbitrary, sweeping statements like this about for everything? Are you bitter about something, or just obnoxious and dense?

[Lorrac]

C'mon guys, be patient - just a few more decades until WoW revenue cleans up Vivendi's debt and then you'll have hero classes, siege weapons and everything you have been promised.

[Jimb0v]

Originally Posted by Etadanik

However, you have to remember that Blizzard's creative drive died when the big bucks hit the table.

Maybe I'm too big of an optimist, but call shenanigans here. Most of my favorite content in WoW has come post release. Not to mention, Blizzards creative drive in the rest of their games has always been top notch. I don't think the money on the table effects their drive sustantially.

There sure are a lot of people on these boards who bitch about the quality of Blizzard games. I'm no fan boy, but I certainly have a hard time pointing out a lot of major flaws with Blizzard's design cycle.

Just to make an analogy to my life, I'm a patent attorney, and just because I'm making a ton of money now doesn't mean that I think my work product can be awful now. I'm always striving to produce top notch product.

[Arbitrary]

Originally Posted by Jimb0v

Just to make an analogy to my life, I'm a patent attorney, and just because I'm making a ton of money now doesn't mean that I think my work product can be awful now. I'm always striving to produce top notch product.

I don't think you are looking at it the right way. It would be more like if you options were to stay the course or go out and try new things, take some risks, etc.

You stay the course and collect your cash. Duh.

[Deris]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

I don't think you are looking at it the right way. It would be more like if you options were to stay the course or go out and try new things, take some risks, etc.

You stay the course and collect your cash. Duh.

Give this guy a dollar.

Blizz won't try anything revolutionary regarding pvp - its the same old hashed crap we've seen before, and anything new they do put out, is rather dull (BGs anyone!?).

[Digo]

Alright, reality check time for the cool kids at home who love being anti-whatever's popular or successful, despite reality.

Things WoW has improved since release (in spite of monumental success and billions in creativity-destroying revenue!):

# New raid instances that continually improve raiding as we know it. I shouldn't have to elaborate on this. If you don't understand why, I have to question what you're doing on this messageboard.

# New talent tree revamps to prevent pigeon-holing of classes and ensure class diversity. The most obvious example: druids receiving innervate as a trainable skill.

# Weather effects. However nitpicky you are, you have to admit these are very cool.

# Dressing room system. Admit it. You love this feature.

# Improved the UI. Raid targetting. Multi-BG queues. Battlemasters.

# Dungeon 2 sets and revamps for non-raiders. These are well-implemented additions to the game that don't fuck up current itemization or grossly mudflate it (which would happen if you added a new 5-man instance with ilvl 75 blues, and if you don't add new gear that allows them to progress, what's the point of a new instance?). It's the missing stepping stone into 20-man raids for players that otherwise wouldn't have a prayer in ZG. You tell me how easy ZG is for someone in full blues with no raid experience.

# Linked auction houses and flightpaths.

# Scourge invasion. Rewards that are useful for everyone from me to Timmycasual. Darkmoon Faire.


I guess if you want to insist they haven't added any good new content or features then you are entitled to your opinion. Just be sure to send me a postcard from fantasy land.

edit: "Revolutionary PVP?" Just what is this revolutionary system you've envisioned that will revitalize the genre and bring in millions of new subscriptions? They admitted the honor system is fucked and it's being overhauled in the expansion. Do you really think they can just whip up a new system in a couple weeks?

[Etadanik]

Not a single one of those features shows any indication of "revolutionary" change, and you don't have to be a anti-anything to see that. But you'd have to be a serious fanboy to consider something like improved UI, class balancing, and linked AHs as a sign that Blizzard still has its "creative" edge.

[Arbitrary]

Originally Posted by Etadanik

Not a single one of those features shows any indication of "revolutionary" change, and you don't have to be a anti-anything to see that. But you'd have to be a serious fanboy to consider something like improved UI, class balancing, and linked AHs as a sign that Blizzard still has its "creative" edge.

Just to continue the circle jerk, yeah. What he said.

Not one of those things is at all risky or innovative or differant or contain a mechanic that sets WoW apart. Aside from talent revamps none of those are decisions that risk being unpopular. They are all safe moves.

Stay the course.

[Itzena]

Maybe you should be playing 'revolutionary' games like SW:G, Shadowbane, Horizons, Dark & Light, et al.

[Etadanik]

Name one "revolutionary" game backed by the same amount resources as WoW.