EQ2: PVP is completely broken 67+

[Jabberwhacky]

So how does the "resist factor" of skill level come into play here? Like how on Master 1 it says "30% harder to resist" and Adept 3 is (I think) "20% harder to resist."

[Faddor]

I think Kreug has pretty much beat this horse to death, but the problem really lies in all the shit casters have to deal with, aside from origami-like defense.

Mana or Resists, fuckers. Pick one.

[Schatze]

I've actually gotten dreadnaught soloing (lost it, high champ now), and not that pussy "zomg gank dude at half HP then get the hell out of dodge" typical way. And not in the low level antonica/CL clusterfuck either.

I've been successful in both solo and group PVP. Group PVP more so, but more than holding my own in solo, for the most part.

It's been culminating for a while. A couple weeks ago I started noticing that I'd be hitting for sub 1000 on every spell, if not outright resists, versus some people. Eh, I figured, must be exceptional gear, I can live with it. Then more and more people, resist, resists, 800, resists, resist. I try to debuff, they resist. I try to dispel, they resist. Oh shit I'm dead. Or even if my debuff sticks right off the bat their resists are STILL past the 80% cap. I mean christ.

The culminating point today was when a conj i've killed probably 100 of times just flat out started kicking my ass. Four pieces of gear. That increased their resists in core areas by 3000. Effectively making them immune to spells.

And do you know what the fucking KICKER is? Their pets don't follow the same resist tables as PCs. They count as NPCs for casting and for aggro (hence you can't carpet away, if you evac you get fleeing debuff, even if you don't do a hostile action, so you can't even fucking run because your movement effects are suspended) so I can't even load up my resists to somewhat counter that shit.

I mean, I literally can't do SHIT I couldn't even get manashield off which is short cast and hard to interrupt except with a direct stun/stifle. I just got hammered by all that shit. And it didn't matter when I got the jump, because it's resist, resist, resist.

I mean the same shit plays out versus every other class now who is starting to get 5k+ resists in mr/fr/cr, which there are more and more every day. Me? I still have my same old 5% fucking mitigation that I've had since level fucking 10, level fucking 40 melee can land abilities on me for fuck's sakes. Sure, I can boost my resists. I have. Wow, I can now kick the shit out of every other mage or warlock as I've always been able to do. And get my ass pounded by anyone else with some moonstone jewelery and some instance crap

FIX. THIS. SHIT. It is fucking OBVIOUS which classes are fucked in PVP, go to any newbie zone and count the conjs/necros/swash/brig/bruisers. Go to your PVP rankings page and check out how many of each class hold which titles. Go roll a fucking caster and see what it's like going against an 80% resist rate.

Fix casters. Which means eviscerating the summoners, if you've ever parsed that shit or PVP'd versus them at 70/50 you know how absolutely insane they are compared to everyone else. I'm sorry if you're a summoner, but... Cry me a fucking river. I'm not sure how far the coming tweaks go, but they don't sound like much.

Adjust resist rates such that DR kicks in for PVP earlier than it does for PVP. Before their was the dynamic where I could kick the shit out of someone fast, or they me; it came down to quick reactions, who got the jump, spell chances, and luck. Now I just die fast while pumping out resist resist resist resist 700 resist resist

GIVE casters significant itemization including disruption gear considering caster itemization in EQ2 makes the early days of WOW pale in comparison (seen more tank weapons drop than all caster gear combined, memories of EQ1 anyone?). I mean holy fucking shit how many fucking sets of weapons and armor all with insane resists do melee need (yes i know, you want to get rid of jousting so you addressed it via gear, but you dun fucked up).

Yeah, long, rambling, but after going in the right fucking direction for the most part, SOE went all schizophrenic as before and decided to go make some fucking stupid changes while leaving core issues busted.

Sigh.

[Jait]

These must be Nagafen complaints, cause I'm in the top guild on Venekor and I have yet to hear a single complaint on this issue. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but if casters *really* have it this bad, then they ought to just nerf melee dmg across the board. Because I get owned plenty at 70, and I'm in full fabled/legendary with close to 70% in each resis, as are the rest of my guild.

Based on this thread I'm struggling to figure out why we aren't dominating the server in PvP since the Qeynos folks aren't wearing any fabled yet.

/shrug

Anyone want to post a parse? I'm guessing no.

[Zuuljin]

Sounds exactly like EQ1 at the start. I'm suprised they didnt see this coming.

And magic users always get the shaft because their overpowered vs melee on equal footing. Where melee have to whittle down your hp, a caster is just BOOM dead. PvP in EQ1 when Ice comet came out was rediculous. Wizards were fucking snipers, who would hide in the tree's (literally, gg levitate) and just 1 shot nuke people to death. Even if it didnt kill you, you had about 5 seconds to find where it came from before he would finish you off with some other spell.

[AladainAF]

Originally Posted by Schatze

Until 70. In KOS gear often has 400-800 of several resists. A ton of 70s, more and more every day, are running around with capped 80% mitigation for the major resists, and they sacrifice nothing to do this.

The really high end fabled T7 has that, sure. But, in order to cap at 80% mit on resists assume your 70 and the person your fighting is 70, you need to have I believe over 5600 to FR/CR. With that said, 5600 FR does not mean you will resist 80% all of the time. It is entirely possible for you to get a poor roll and take a nice hit of damage, as my guildie has done, landing a crit ice nova for 10,200 on another level 70 in the competing high end guild on vox.

My ice nova, free handed, does a whopping 800-1500 damage on someone with my frost debuff. Both adept 3.

Whats your intelligence at?

My master 1 ball of lava is lucky to break 800. Fusion? HAH. Always resisted

Our guild wizard with Fusion Master I has on numerous times 1-shotted 2 people, one time he managed to get 3, hitting them for over 8,000 each. I dunno, I don't see this.

What is PVP at 70 like? Here's a fight versus conjuror. He sicks his silencing pet on me. I'm silenced. He sicks some other pet, forget the name on me, I'm now stunned, then he swarms me. His DPS? 1600. Yes, 1600 DPS.

Hi, let me tell you a fight vs. a necro. He fears me. I fall off the KOS isle and die. Fight over.

I could go on and on, but if you're 70, you're going to be seeing this. If you're not, you won't have experienced this.

Try being a 70 templar someday. Can't do shit. If I get jumped all I can do is reactive myself and run. You at least have a chance as you can do some damage. I cant do shit, even though divine resist is usually low -- my nukes still do pathetic damage in pvp.

Honestly this is the most fundamentally flawed PVP mechanic ever. Warlocks and wizards are screwed in PVP while swash/brig/bruiser/summoners dominate with ease.

Man, I dunno, I don't see it. Then again, I dont go out on my own, nor do my guildies. We usually at least travel in packs of 2-3 people. I think your beef is more than 1 class pvps better than you.. So what ? It happens. As a templar, I will never kill anyone on a 1v1 PvP.

non-bruisers/swashes/conjs/necros are shelving their toons and rolling these classes. Do not look at the lower level game, look at 70, look at the classes with the highest titles, go try to fucking kill even the crappiest player who has an 80% resist rate. This is completely screwed.

80% isnt 80% every time.

edit: I'd like to point out versus people in non-KOS instance gear it is fine. But I'm not even talking raid gear. Just run of the mill sanctum of scale palace of the awakened halls of fate crap will pretty much turn anyone invincible versus casters. And we have no similar mechanism to increase either our defense or our offense to compensate to any similar degree.

Man what gear outta sanctum are you getting that makes you break 5600 resists? Here is my profile: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/e...erId=361935121

I have a lot of T7 legendary, and I dont see any of my resists anywhere near 5600, and I have 346 wisdom. Our guild wizard has gear over scaleborn level, but look at his resists -- http://eq2players.station.sony.com/e...erId=359339121

I wanna know where this gear is heh

[Schatze]

You really aren't understanding this, it doesn't take fucking fabled gear to get maxed resists, it takes moonstone jewelery and some HOF/POA/SOS/BSS legendary loot. I can max my primary resists with shit from the broker.

And since wizards and warlocks are on both sides, and necros are balanced by conjs, and swash by brig, etc., it's not a "faction versus faction thing". It's about players becoming effectively immune to primary magic users, that primary magic users have absolutely shit itemization, that while "realm versus realm" things are fairly balanced, the whole fucking dynamic is based on a flawed premise.

Or are you honestly stating that you think that as a magic caster, your opponent can effectively become immune to you, the most fragile class in game, while you have no recourse?

edit: this was my second response to aladain, since he already replied, leaving the first:

--

Originally Posted by AladainAF

The really high end fabled T7 has that, sure. But, in order to cap at 80% mit on resists assume your 70 and the person your fighting is 70, you need to have I believe over 5600 to FR/CR. With that said, 5600 FR does not mean you will resist 80% all of the time. It is entirely possible for you to get a poor roll and take a nice hit of damage, as my guildie has done, landing a crit ice nova for 10,200 on another level 70 in the competing high end guild on vox.

No, 80% resist means on top of the 60% blanket PVP reduction I get on my spells I get another 80% reduction tacked on. I'm not sure how it works exactly, but my spells will do less damage on average and I will have higher resists on average. I've hit with big ice novas, so? Not everyone has gone the high resist route. In fact, up until a few weeks ago, none did. Now I am finding more and more, and I doubt things will change soon. Although to be honest every Q wizard I've run into solo has sucked balls, but if you're lynx or karma there're a couple I rarely see solo so shrug. I sure as fuck hope you're not talking about gimps like Finwick though.

[note: i haven't even seen Wravenn in like a month anywhere, and I PVP quite regularly]

And yes, there're still a bunch of people running around without maxed resists. They're still pretty rare. But 2 weeks ago there were a couple, now there're about 8 or 10.

Whats your intelligence at?

Capped.

Our guild wizard with Fusion Master I has on numerous times 1-shotted 2 people, one time he managed to get 3, hitting them for over 8,000 each. I dunno, I don't see this.

As have I. Fusion is an extremely limited group spell though, and extremely easy to resist. You're not getting it. There is no problem versus people with average resists. Plus if your opponents are getting fusioned they suck :P

Hi, let me tell you a fight vs. a necro. He fears me. I fall off the KOS isle and die. Fight over.

Try a conj. I'm not arguing one side is advantaged over another, hell, you're Qeynos, to be quite frank we absolutely own you unless you have 2x or more our numbers (not all the time, of course). I think you'll agree, PVP wise, Qeynos hasn't been doing so well recently at 70. Although to be honest I have not seen Wravenn or flipt around at all, but other Karma I have.

But I'm talking about warlocks and wizards, which both sides have.

Try being a 70 templar someday. Can't do shit. If I get jumped all I can do is reactive myself and run. You at least have a chance as you can do some damage. I cant do shit, even though divine resist is usually low -- my nukes still do pathetic damage in pvp.

Is a templar's only role in life to do damage?

Man, I dunno, I don't see it. Then again, I dont go out on my own, nor do my guildies. We usually at least travel in packs of 2-3 people. I think your beef is more than 1 class pvps better than you.. So what ? It happens. As a templar, I will never kill anyone on a 1v1 PvP.

Solo PVP has it's place. So does group PVP. The only difference is, in group PVP, the opponents are likely to have more resist buffs.

80% isnt 80% every time.

No, 80% is 80%.

Man what gear outta sanctum are you getting that makes you break 5600 resists? Here is my profile: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/e...erId=361935121

I was just naming off KOS shit. More BSS, HOF, POA. Or broker search moonstone. I made an alt to check out Qeynos broker, have you done the same for freeport? You've got pages and pages of shit with good stats and resists. I'm assuming you didn't choose your gear for resists though

I have a lot of T7 legendary, and I dont see any of my resists anywhere near 5600, and I have 346 wisdom. Our guild wizard has gear over scaleborn level, but look at his resists -- http://eq2players.station.sony.com/e...erId=359339121

I wanna know where this gear is heh

HOF, devourer, POA, and go do a search for "moonstone" on the broker. In fact, your resists are not that great. You are probably not gearing for maxed resists. Again, you aren't understanding the point.

Against someone with "normal" resists, most people running around, I do fine. I win, I lose. But there're a number of people who are cappign resists, and as each side gets into KOS raid shit, it'll only keep on happening, as prices drop, as better gear goes on the broker, as they add in more resists and stats to moonstone jewelery, as the good shit goes on the vender etc.

And it will affect the wizards and warlocks of BOTH sides. It's not a Q V F issue. Although the whole "can mitigate 80% of a caster's damage while a caster will never be able to mitigate more than 5% of 90% of the other classes' is a big one.

edit the 2nd: it is ESPECIALLY bad against all the people who exploited faction up to 50k who have access to the PVP gear with insane resists. I'm sure you know individuals on both sides who did this.

[James]

Originally Posted by Jovec

Eh? Naked casters owning while you are rooted/snared, etc? One death and your weapon was looted and you were SOL?

Load of shit. Any PvPer worth his weight in salt carried around 20 bags of egg shaped pumice. Yes, they broke the inventory for that shit. Those of us whom were good with them, the pumice slingers as it were, were never, ever rooted. Or snared, dotted (for the most part), etc, etc, you name it. I PvPed on both a warrior and an enchanter in mostly full gear, and the only two times I can recall losing anything of value was when I got zoneline ganked in a situation I had no control over.

I could go on for days about how awesome EQ PvP was pre-kunark, really, but that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't expect EQ2 PvP to be worth it after 2 expansions at all. Have fun!

[AladainAF]

Originally Posted by Jait

These must be Nagafen complaints, cause I'm in the top guild on Venekor and I have yet to hear a single complaint on this issue. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but if casters *really* have it this bad, then they ought to just nerf melee dmg across the board. Because I get owned plenty at 70, and I'm in full fabled/legendary with close to 70% in each resis, as are the rest of my guild.

Based on this thread I'm struggling to figure out why we aren't dominating the server in PvP since the Qeynos folks aren't wearing any fabled yet.

/shrug

Anyone want to post a parse? I'm guessing no.

I'm in the top guild on Vox (Qeynos is winning there by a long shot) and I havent heard any complaints either. I also cant find hardly any moonstone jewerly at all. The only moonstone that I know about either has stats, and zero resists, or have barely any stats and 938 to just two resists. I have a stellar PVP record (154 kills, 7 deaths), but am not close to 80% resists except to divine (oh joy?)

[Schatze]

And the FP side is hardly as geared as the Qeynos side, see broker, see profiles (although we still kick your ass). Two, you and your wizard friend are not major PVP'rs, in fact none of the major PVP'rs on FP side on Vox have recalled seeing you two for a long time. If you have 100~ kills you are not a PVP'r, you're PVE'ing on a PVP server. I'm only middling active in PVP and I've got 1400 kills.

Honestly, get your friend here and we can maybe then discuss it, I can find someone with 6k in each resist and see how he does with that.

edit: the moonstone jewelery for resists exist for neck, wrist, ring, earring, maybe others, it gives pairs of 939/939 resists e.g. you can get elemental, pestilence, arcane, go check the FP broker if you don't believe me.

But it's hardly necessary... Just broke 5.5k FR, 4.3 CR, 3.8 MR and my gear is mediocre at best, and that's without my resist gear on (although it's not my raid gear either per se)

[Zuuljin]

Originally Posted by James

Load of shit. Any PvPer worth his weight in salt carried around 20 bags of egg shaped pumice. Yes, they broke the inventory for that shit. Those of us whom were good with them, the pumice slingers as it were, were never, ever rooted. Or snared, dotted (for the most part), etc, etc, you name it. I PvPed on both a warrior and an enchanter in mostly full gear, and the only two times I can recall losing anything of value was when I got zoneline ganked in a situation I had no control over.

I could go on for days about how awesome EQ PvP was pre-kunark, really, but that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't expect EQ2 PvP to be worth it after 2 expansions at all. Have fun!

iirc they removed pumice stones after everyone found out how valuable they were in pvp. Then it was back to naked ganking.

I will agree though that PvP in the early days was great. Id say even up through Velious. After that the items got a little crazy and so did the PvP. =\

[Heavens_Myst]

Hehe pumice stones got nerfed hard for many reasons... they were basically overpowered.

first they went from pillage enchanment to nullify magic... then they added like a 3sec cast time.

i used to abuse those so bad. the best was to go to bbm or fp, use it on the guard that was being kited, then snare/root the kiter, or pumice then snare/root (to remove shit like reso or mr). nuke them a couple of times maybe, and then let them die to the guards for EXP

unless you knew they were wearing something valuable, and i mean worth more than a damn piece of jewelry. smr, GEBs, fbss, rubi bp.. etc

fun times indeed. worst was getting ganked by 2-3 wizards before you even loaded up a zone though! ohh i how i feared porting into sro or lava

[Quel]

Originally Posted by Schatze

FIX THIS SHIT.

Um, no.

EQ2 is a PvE game, hell it didn't even ship with any sort of PvP. PvP was added as an afterthought for the people that are in to that sort of thing. I am not against PvP in general, I did it in WoW and would do it in EQ2 if it was balanced for it. Any balancing they do in PvP is going to fuck up the vast majority of people that could care less about it. Sure they could come up with a separate rules for PvP but it’s much easier to just make global changes, and we all know how SoE likes to take the path of least resistance.

There are way too many classes to balance everything evenly for PvP. Especially when you factor in how quickly they add new content. It’s time that could be spent on keeping the game interesting for the majority.

[Quineloe]

People playing EQ2 are already running around with a huge "FUCK ME" Sign, so I don't understand your point.

[Hebbin]

Shadowbane is still alive and free to play. If you didn't look at the initial ruleset on the EQ2 pvp servers and go wtf, it's your own fault for choosing to pvp in a non-pvp game.