Vanguard: Making the game as they go?

[Skars]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Wonder what an IP check on the two-post wonders singing the praises of Vanguard would show?

They've got nothing on notes and PMs

[Lleauaric~EW]

Wonder what an IP check on the two-post wonders singing the praises of Vanguard would show?

That they were behind the grassy knoll???????

Take off the tin foil hat

[Lost Ranger]

You know I dont really think anyone gives a fuck what some random tester in Beta has to say to you in PMs Utnayan.

I knew testers that where in EQ2 beta that said the game was awesome, and guess what? At release the game fucking sucked. I also know people that beta tested WoW that said the game was horrible and guess what? I rather enjoy it. You think throwing peoples opinions around is proving some kind of a point? Ok so you got some PMs from some people who dislike the game fair enough. Ever think there are just as many people around here in beta who are enjoying themselves and dont feel they need to justify that to you in PMs?

Vanguard wont have finished content on release?!?!?!?!?! /gasp!!!!!! *cough* oh wait a second you mean they are going to be like EVERY other MMO ever released including WoW. How dare they... grab the picket signs buddy we got work to do outside the Sigil building.

All fooling aside, seriously man just let it go. Do you honestly think Brad and co. are sitting in a conference room somewhere with your posts up on a projector discussing your comments? Wait until Sigil has an open beta or something then you can give your own personal thoughts on the subject instead of just taking shit other people say and trying to form some kind crusade with it. Let it go.

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by Neric

The funny thing is that the PM's Utnayan is quoting describe the game how it really is. Now what are you guys bitching about, the messenger or the message? If you like Utnayan or not, it doesn't change the fact that you want to play Vanguard, so you better care about what Vanguard really is.

Spite the messenger, spare the message. Typical of those who cannot accept that all may not be as it seems.

[Zorlac]

Originally Posted by Etadanik

Does every game really need to be newbie friendly in the sense of offering an endless stream of leading-by-the-hand kill X quests or is there some other, more original idea that we can come up with to make "zone hubbing" more attractive to new players? Sure, with the way the market works, it's necessary to capture a larger population than a niche, .

You answered your own question. Tigole said something like only 25% of the players have seen Ragnaros. Now, that leaves 75% out of it (And it was probably 25% of level 60s). In every game, even a casual friendly game like WoW, the "noobs", the casuals, are paying for the infrastructure. Hardcore players are using way too much bandwith and server resources. So if a game caters, at least in part, to casual players then they will be able to sustain the development cost and continuous updates of the game.

I wonder if Vanguard is marketed to EQ nostalgics (you know, when Guk was empty ... of mobs) will it have the financial strenght to live on? This game must have costed a boatload of money.

[Malakie Torsade]

Originally Posted by Etadanik

there were numerous occasions when I visited an area/instance in WoW and couldn't help but imagine how much better it would've been had it been done EQ-style, complete with nameds and camps and trains and various regulars chatting it away. I don't think that this style of gameplay is a dead-end. On the contrary, I think it's what gave early EQ its life, its soul.

Hardly. The fond times I recall from EQ most certainly have nothing to do with missing out on my preferred camp spot or dealing with trains. It's a dead mechanic... and lets be happy it's gone.

And before all the naysayers come in with their "but EQ sucked and was good only because it was first!" let me just intone the following thought: WoW has raiding, does it not? Raiding (as it exists in WoW) came from EQ, did it not? If raiding, the vision of EQ in its age, is a viable, influential concept, why not the vision of its youth?

Do you really think that waiting on lists, getting trained, and yelling at each other over OOC was part of the "Vision?" It's also important to note that it's been stated repeatedly that camping areas was not intended. Players were supposed to crawl through dungeons and see the whole thing, not plop their ass on the ground in one spot for 4 hours while cranking up their Playstation.

What, exactly, is so wrong about the "community hub" approach to dungeons, camps and all?

Because sitting in one spot is boring to most players? Can you imagine sitting down to a D&D session and the DM saying "Ok guys, going to try something different this time. We are going to walk through the dungeon to this one spot, clear it out, rest, and just keep killing the monsters that magically respawn. If you get really lucky, a named will spawn! If you get super lucky, he'll drop something worth a shit! This method will allow us more time to chit-chat and eat Doritos." (FYI, I hate analogies )

I do think they should have a few non-instanced dungeons, but most time should be spent on instanced onces. Crawling a dungeon and experiencing the zone are, to me, far more what MMO's are about as opposed to sitting in one room all night playing Visual IRC. I honestly don't understand you chatty Cathy types. Sure, I like to chat with other people while I'm playing, but I don't want to base the gameplay around it.

Sure, with the way the market works, it's necessary to capture a larger population than a niche, but to do so at the cost of losing the soul of what made EQ great, what made it unique, seems too high a price to pay.

You are really over-dramatic.

Honestly, I think a lot of your thoughts on this are clouded by nostalgia. Do I have vivid memories of the times I got repeatedly trained in CT, or some of the interesting conversations had in OOC? Absolutely. However, the postives from losing some of those things far, far outweigh the negatives.

[holymight]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Those days are dead. And rightfully so. Content being cockblocked by players, lists, logging in and not being able to advance your character without waiting in line for hours, and once getting in having to sink enormous amounts of time into the leveling curve. There were too many barriers to entry, and your post smells too much of nostalgia.

EQ2 dungeons are not instanced for the most part, and they do contain PH and named mobs with common and rare items. Guess what, it's much more fun than any instance in WoW. I never had problems finding an area to "camp" in all my play time. There are no lists in EQ2. There is no waiting around. Just because EQ had those side effects doesn't mean that the game can't be designed to prevent that from happening.

[Awanka]

Originally Posted by Malakie Torsade

...
Do you really think that waiting on lists, getting trained, and yelling at each other over OOC was part of the "Vision?" It's also important to note that it's been stated repeatedly that camping areas was not intended. Players were supposed to crawl through dungeons and see the whole thing, not plop their ass on the ground in one spot for 4 hours while cranking up their Playstation.
...

QFT. I have serious problems with WoW, which is the reason I've quit until the expansion is released, but one thing WoW has going for it is great content. Atmospheric and interesting dungeon designs that provide a lot of fun and challenge, and they got rid of that awful camping paradigm that reigned in EQ, and even DAOC and EQ:OA. Now if they could just make the instances a little more, you know, dynamic, so they're still interesting the 10th time I run through them. I believe that's the next big step in dungeon design. Maybe use some sort of mix and match formula like Diablo, but much more robust.

[Deris]

People are still reading this shit?


Everyone - do yourselves a favor, put Utnayan and Neric on Ignore, and the threads become amusing as you try to guess what Utnayan and Neric are circlejerk Sigil hating about now .

Give it a rest until they are confident enough to put the game into Open Beta. Right now neither of you have a fucking leg to stand on, and the tirade is hilarious, espescially since neither of you have a clue as to what SGO's direction is, or will be for the next year +, and yet you still fucking presume.

Resume the retardedry ~

[Soygen]

Originally Posted by Rayne

Spite the messenger, spare the message. Typical of those who cannot accept that all may not be as it seems.

It's thinking like this, that is just as(if not more) retarded as the blind vanboism displayed on the VG forums. Do you really think that people are hating on Utnayan because they like Vanguard?

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Soygen

It's thinking like this, that is just as(if not more) retarded as the blind vanboism displayed on the VG forums. Do you really think that people are hating on Utnayan because they like Vanguard?

You want to picture something amusing?
What if Ut's right?

Heh, doesn't it just warm the cockles of your heart imagining the aftermath of the Vanguard launch with him saying "I told you so!" over and over again?

[Deris]

Thing us Ut hasn't said a single thing revolutionary.

Not. a. One.

I could go on and on about WoW and how it has completely and utterly failed the Casual Gamer, how raids are retarded, how the entire game is warrior dependent, and how content wasn't released finished.

They're all VERY broad, and rather baseless accusations. Its like saying the fucking sky is blue.

And on top of that, just to throw salt on the wound, Utnayan and Neric like to decide what is fun for us. I don't know about you, but I had fun retrieving my corpse when I was naked from PoFear, etc yet they'd tell you it was a huge waste of time, blah blah blah.

I'll be my own judge for the game, thanks.

[Soygen]

Originally Posted by Itzena

You want to picture something amusing?
What if Ut's right?

Heh, doesn't it just warm the cockles of your heart imagining the aftermath of the Vanguard launch with him saying "I told you so!" over and over again?

I just cried a little.

Though, let's be honest. Even in Ut's doomsday predictions are only accurate on a fraction of the items he's brought up, we'll still get "I told you so!" posts. I have faith in that.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Itzena

You want to picture something amusing?
What if Ut's right?

Heh, doesn't it just warm the cockles of your heart imagining the aftermath of the Vanguard launch with him saying "I told you so!" over and over again?

Doesn't matter if he's right or not. Hell, he probably is right. The game probably does suck right now.

I just dislike him because he annoys me with his argument style, his posting style, and his obssession. I couldn't give less than a shit if Vanguard shuts down tomorrow.

[ArkturusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Deris

People are still reading this shit?


Everyone - do yourselves a favor, put Utnayan and Neric on Ignore, and the threads become amusing as you try to guess what Utnayan and Neric are circlejerk Sigil hating about now .

Give it a rest until they are confident enough to put the game into Open Beta. Right now neither of you have a fucking leg to stand on, and the tirade is hilarious, espescially since neither of you have a clue as to what SGO's direction is, or will be for the next year +, and yet you still fucking presume.

Resume the retardedry ~

You know who I AM going to start ignoring? The fucks that keep telling everyone else who to put on their ignore list. Do yourself a favor and stop reading these threads if Ut and co. bother you so damn much.