Vanguard: Making the game as they go?

[Overgauss]

That 3ds sounds gwn.

I wonder what else it can do? Can it spawn scripted events, or quests? Dynamically 'morph' terrain to reveal an entrance or use other type graphic/spell effects to make my sword glow or rain blood? How many flags can it check? How many properties can it have?

Whats the relation between aes and 3ds if any?

NEED MORE INFOZ.

[Digits]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

What are you still doing here? Go get your shit checked.

You don't want me spending my precious time to counter your falacies, misinterpretations and plain stupidity, remember? I did it full time for a week and you ran away and hid while the big boys talked so you wouldn't get another black eye. It's probably because you have no idea how to counter facts, and require your debate opponent to be filled with as much bullshit as you are to thrive. It works like fertizile, so I guess your father was right about you after all, and that you really are a delicate flower. I'm thinking dandelion, personally.

An educated hypothesis based on what we know now, in conjunction with history of the last expansions. Usually his expansions were 6 months. I am guessing a full on release will be 12.

It's true, Vanguard and EQ are the same games after all. They're both made under the exact same circumstances, have the same design philosophy and understanding and the exact same market situation. Not only that, but they both have the exact same style of content development. This is how you're so accurately able to predict the future of Vanguard expansions, I mean really, bravo.

1> Combat Revamp - Check.
2> CR Revamp - Check.
3> Diplomacy Revamp - Check.
4> Newbie experience Revamp - Check.
5> Over 65% of the content still not finished - Check.
6> Revamping classes - Check.
7> Tradeskill revamp - Check.
8> Releasing in "Winter" banking on a year of subscriptions to actually balance all the revamps done, charging all the gamers money to finish a game because of ineptitude without ever coming clean on what they are doing to ensure box sales - Check.

1) Pretty much.

2) What CR revamp? The one you made up in your head? Oh, right, that one. Gotcha chief!

3) I guess I can give this to you, although the system that's in place now has been in place for months. The only issue here is balance to making parley difficult, no small feat, but you act as if the entire system is being gutted and re-gutted because, well, you're a troll.

4) Yes, please. I'm tired of the focus being on the post 20 game. If they had put the amount of focus on the newbie areas that WoW did, or that they did for later areas, then you'd see astromically higher beta tester numbers. You'd probably be hearing what you did from WoW, although to a lesser extent because WoW is like a sleepy kitten, everyone loves it. I know this because I've conducted a few surveys on my own with beta testers, and the one high quality newbie area is almost guarenteed to retain newbies as they level up. This is going to be less and less of an issue as they actually do work on them instead of leaving them to rot like they have been. Yes, before you troll that sentence, they are focusing on the 1-30 content in the upcoming months.

5) Nice magical number, by the way WoW, is 27 percent away from being the best game ever made. Beta 3 is coming up in the next month or two, and with it the release of the entire Kojan continent. I guess you ought to knock down that arbitrary number down to 35 percent, "chief".

6) If Blizzard released hunters into beta without stings, and then 2 months gave them the sting line is that considered a revamp? If not, then "Thanks again, chief!" The classes that are in are done with, the only "revamp" is that priest melee attacks are being put into the chain system and they are being given unique spell systems such as god worship for clerics or some such. That's the sort of shit we see now in beta, and that's been the case for...hell, months?

7) Probably, but nothings mentioned in the patch notes that I've seen in the past few months so..."Thanks again, chief".

8) I can feel yah, mizz Cleo. De bones be spillin secrets from dah futah!

I'm genuinely amazed that you are actively predicting the future of something you don't even have a realistic grasp, treating it as absolute fact, bashing the company viscerally based on your ludicrous assumptions and you are not getting banned.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Digits

.It's true, Vanguard and EQ are the same games after all. They're both made under the exact same circumstances, have the same design philosophy and understanding and the exact same market situation. Not only that, but they both have the exact same style of content development. This is how you're so accurately able to predict the future of Vanguard expansions, I mean really, bravo.

No. That's how I can predict Vanguard will be a pile of shit on release, banking on subscription revenue to finish it for a year. The expansions are a given.

1) Pretty much.

Good. It needs it. Tell the fucking public about it then.

2) What CR revamp? The one you made up in your head? Oh, right, that one. Gotcha chief!

The one you will be paying for somewhere around post retail month 4 with subscription revenue after the one they are revamping now hits the shits.

3) I guess I can give this to you, although the system that's in place now has been in place for months. The only issue here is balance to making parley difficult, no small feat, but you act as if the entire system is being gutted and re-gutted because, well, you're a troll.

It is. Dippy boy.

4) Yes, please. I'm tired of the focus being on the post 20 game. If they had put the amount of focus on the newbie areas that WoW did, or that they did for later areas, then you'd see astromically higher beta tester numbers. You'd probably be hearing what you did from WoW, although to a lesser extent because WoW is like a sleepy kitten, everyone loves it. I know this because I've conducted a few surveys on my own with beta testers, and the one high quality newbie area is almost guarenteed to retain newbies as they level up. This is going to be less and less of an issue as they actually do work on them instead of leaving them to rot like they have been. Yes, before you troll that sentence, they are focusing on the 1-30 content in the upcoming months.

"Any excuse you can think of to try and comprehend why no one is logging in besides the game fucking sucks excuse #4212."

5) Nice magical number, by the way WoW, is 27 percent away from being the best game ever made. Beta 3 is coming up in the next month or two, and with it the release of the entire Kojan continent. I guess you ought to knock down that arbitrary number down to 35 percent, "chief".

50% of content = one continent. That continent is roughly 35% complete with an enormous pile of borish game design. Adding another continent will be the other 50%. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that even when they add it, it will be 100% complete - which it won't - but I am trying to be nice. Anyway, Continent one at 50%, 35% complete, without the other continent in is 35% complete - meaning they have 65% to go.

Either way, adding another continent full of useless boring land without anything interesting isn't content. Star Wars Galaxies has 10 of those last I checked.

6) If Blizzard released hunters into beta without stings, and then 2 months gave them the sting line is that considered a revamp? If not, then "Thanks again, chief!" The classes that are in are done with, the only "revamp" is that priest melee attacks are being put into the chain system and they are being given unique spell systems such as god worship for clerics or some such. That's the sort of shit we see now in beta, and that's been the case for...hell, months?

I am talking about the class revamp that will take place in conjunction with the combat revamp because they will need to alter every fucking ability based on new mechanics. Game design 101 shithead. Welcome to 1994.

7) Probably, but nothings mentioned in the patch notes that I've seen in the past few months so..."Thanks again, chief".

Haha. Fuck, even you don't need a patch note for this one.

8) I can feel yah, mizz Cleo. De bones be spillin secrets from dah futah!

Name a time I predicted this and was wrong. I was right with SWG. I was right with Planetside. I was right with EQ2. These are all games that shipped in shit states that were rebuilt over subscription revenue. Only one of those is worth a shit today. Next stop - Vanguard zone.

I'm genuinely amazed that you are actively predicting the future of something you don't even have a realistic grasp, treating it as absolute fact, bashing the company viscerally based on your ludicrous assumptions and you are not getting banned.

It's called common sense. One shot of it and maybe I will see you make a point this century.

[Skars]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

No. That's how I can predict Vanguard will be a pile of shit on release, banking on subscription revenue to finish it for a year. The expansions are a given.

.

You heard it here first folks. Not only is Vanguard doomed, but all the expansions are piles of shit and dead in the water. Utanyan: Fair and Balanced.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Skars

You heard it here first folks. Not only is Vanguard doomed, but all the expansions are piles of shit and dead in the water. Utanyan: Fair and Balanced.

Name when McQuaid or Butler ever released a finished product.

(crickets)

[Skars]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Name when McQuaid or Butler ever released a finished product.

(crickets)

Why don't you tell me Utanyan, I'm sure you'll be happy to write 50 more frothing rants on the subject!

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Skars

Why don't you tell me Utanyan, I'm sure you'll be happy to write 50 more frothing rants on the subject!

I'll tell you.

Never.

[Skars]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

I'll tell you.

Never.

Oh boy oh boy, tell me more Mighty Sage

[holymight]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Name when McQuaid or Butler ever released a finished product.

(crickets)

Name any company that released a finished MMORPG.

(crickets)

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by holymight

Name any company that released a finished MMORPG.

(crickets)

Hey Holymight, just in time.

THIS man is NO idiot. He's a wack and a laugh, but he's no dummy. I've checked his articles and I find nothing in them that's disputable, but you can judge for yourself. He also writes for http://www.gamasutra.com/ and is a member of GameDev.net where I originally found him because I'm also a member. It's the only online reference I can find for you at the moment, but it works and covers it all.

As for your question, Buscaglia answers it here.

Specifically this portion: "Fortunately for the developer the expansion pack that they were successful in obtaining did not relate to any of the original work that the artist had done for the company. Because if it had, since none of this was "work for hire" (more on the "work for hire" concept in the next article) the artist would have had sufficient intellectual property rights to, at minimum, putt his work out of the project. The only thing that saved the developer's bacon was the fact that the publishing contract they acquired had absolutely nothing to do with the demo they had made."

My memory is fuzzy on whether they claimed to be getting paid or not, but IF they were not "getting paid", then it is not "work for hire", you see? Of course there could have been another agreement in effect. I never said there couldn't be. It was an educated speculation of ONE possibility, heavily persuaded from Beta leaks that claimed Vanguard was a bore with very few invitees participating. Perhaps Holymight can enlighten you further since he seems to have the inside scoop.

Other interesting articles that reiterate known law and common legal practices can be found in this section.

Pay further attention here for an even clearer understanding of how lawyers operate.

I think you will find these articles state basically the same things already discussed. I dare say, ANYONE who knows the basics in that field, would have had the same questions cross their minds. I have no doubt. Unless they are completely stupid.

This also brings up another point though. If the higher level game is a bit more fun and keeps people intrigued, and isn't just another run of the mill excuse as to why people are not logging in - the people behind that fun content are long gone. It was most likely designed by the above forementioned three people that got the hell out of there (and I do not blame them). The new content design was revolved around the beginners. You know, the people hired whose game design experience was playing River raid and Yars Revenge, and dedicating themsleves to MMORPG's because of Star Wars Galaxies.

I cannot wait to see what great treats they have in store for the raid game that was probably scrapped after Capozzi left because they wouldn't be able to understand any of the concepts or intricate details behind Burke and Capozzi's designs. Instead, maybe Vanguard players will be rewarded with an empty land mass and a bridge to blow up collectively as a group while collecting fuel cans across riverbeds to do so.

[Digits]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

No. That's how I can predict Vanguard will be a pile of shit on release, banking on subscription revenue to finish it for a year. The expansions are a given.

Really, I can't argue with this, Vanguard is going to have unfinished content that will be patched in at a later date. Just like Blizzard did with every single raid zone, including MC and Onyxia which were in terribly bugged states though mostly complete, Dire Maul, Silithus, the entire fucking honor system, battlegrounds and every other thing they added.

But wait, according to you that shit was free content that no one can complain about!

Shut the fuck up you hypocrite.

Good. It needs it. Tell the fucking public about it then.

"Hey, guys, our combat in beta has had the underlying mechanics reworked. It's basically the same thing, but it's now a smoother curve for 'x' feature!"

Shit goes through beta for a reason, good god you really a child. The point has only been beaten into your skull a thousand times over by people who have a semblance of a clue.

"The one you will be paying for somewhere around post retail month 4 with subscription revenue after the one they are revamping now hits the shits.

From now on I'm going to respond this sort of lunacy by simply stating 'Utnayan's Law'. It's going to be our version of Godwin's law, except it applies to people who predict the future and think that makes them absolutely correct.

"Any excuse you can think of to try and comprehend why no one is logging in besides the game fucking sucks excuse #4212."

Everyone I know who has gone through Rindol fields has stuck with the game as far as I know, whereas people who go through other areas don't. Rindol is head and shoulders above the other newbie grounds. It's common sense, maybe if you get a moment of sanity I'll see you in this century sometime (lolz!).

50% of content = one continent. That continent is roughly 35% complete with an enormous pile of borish game design. Adding another continent will be the other 50%. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that even when they add it, it will be 100% complete - which it won't - but I am trying to be nice. Anyway, Continent one at 50%, 35% complete, without the other continent in is 35% complete - meaning they have 65% to go.

Can anyone read this rambling mish mash of half assed assumptions melding with insane statistics without thinking you're a disgrace to these once great boards? The answer is no. You don't know a fucking thing about the Vanguard beta, go ahead, you can admit it. Bullshit statistics with no basis in reality don't fly with me, so why don't you just say 'I hereby declare that the beta content of Vanguard is nowhere near completion. So sayeth Utnayan.' It would be just as factual, and accomplish the exact same thing.

Either way, adding another continent full of useless boring land without anything interesting isn't content. Star Wars Galaxies has 10 of those last I checked.

You compare to VG to SWG why? I did too, by the way, but then I actually played the game. Lolz, talk about coincidences!

I am talking about the class revamp that will take place in conjunction with the combat revamp because they will need to alter every fucking ability based on new mechanics. Game design 101 shithead. Welcome to 1994.

Uh, no they won't. Seriously, the fact that you keep spewing shit like this out is as dishonest as you try to make every gaming company but Blizzard appear. You don't know what you're talking about, why won't you let that rock of knowledge settle in the storm of absurdity encased in your skull?

Name a time I predicted this and was wrong. I was right with SWG. I was right with Planetside. I was right with EQ2. These are all games that shipped in shit states that were rebuilt over subscription revenue. Only one of those is worth a shit today. Next stop - Vanguard zone.

Wow! You predicted SWG and Planetside were going to be bad games? You didn't think EQ2 was ready for release? Sweet merciful Jesus, you must be the son of Moses! Lead me to the promised land!

Wait, I forgot, I barely paid attention to EQ2 and PS and I knew they weren't great games. I knew SWG was going to suck when I tested in beta. Anyone who fucking played these games with open eyes realized they were doomed, except for EQ2 which I thought was only an average game at release. Do you really think you were the only one saying that? That you were there, standing alone against the horde of Sony profit-mongers and it was you who alerted the public to their imminent doom.

Seeing as how you and I both predicted the same things with those game, along with the majority of people who tested them, that must mean all of us are absolutely right with our varying opinions of Vanguard. How did the universe not explode yet? The very fabric of existence is being pulled in a thousand different directions!

In short: Get off your high horse, faggot, and stop thinking you're the saviour of the masses. Maybe if you didn't act like a self righteous tool at all possible times you wouldn't be treated like shit by everyone who doesn't live in your message box.

It's called common sense. One shot of it and maybe I will see you make a point this century.

Common sense to you is predicting the future so I think I'll pass on your version of it.

[holymight]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Hey Holymight, just in time.

I stand by my point, he is a fucking idiot. I just read the whole article he refers to and I don't see how it relates to Vanguard at all.

The article talks about an inexperienced start-up without money trying to get funding from a publisher. One of the artists walked out because he thought he owned shares in the company, but didn't. The initial demo they had to create required pro bono work so he pulled his assets that he created from the demo but it didn't affect the final product. That about covers it right?

Somehow I don't think Vanguard ever had trouble finding funding or ever had their employees doing pro bono work. Even if they started doing pro bono work the day they got their first paycheck it was no longer pro bono and the work belonged to the company.

Edit: WTF. Why am I even arguing with Utnayans imaginary friends. There is just no way to win.

[Skars]

Originally Posted by holymight

Edit: WTF. Why am I even arguing with Utnayans imaginary friends. There is just no way to win.

Haha it took you that long to work it out You can't win vs notes, voices in head and fortune telling.

[Duppin]

The ironic part in all of this?

I wasn't interested in Vanguard at all before. Now, I'm curious about it.

Brad, Smed, whoever, if you're reading this: go back through my posts, you'll see I deserve a beta key!

I want to be able to see, for myself, whether Utnayan's COMPLETELY full of shit, or just mostly.

PM plz~

[Digits]

Originally Posted by Skars

Haha it took you that long to work it out You can't win vs notes, voices in head and fortune telling.

The problem with letting him run free like this place was with own mental ward is:

A) He really is annoying.

B) Some poor soul who still thinks this place is the end all to be all for MMO discussion might read a long, well enough structured paragraph with no one countering it and think that it's accurate.

I'm thinking of the children, you see.