Vanguard: Making the game as they go? - Page 3

xilsharn · 06-04-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utnayan

They should. About half the population here of the previous IGN'ers that somehow got auth'd and the other posters that flame me instead of making points on the thread would get banned. If that meant I would have to get banned to see about half of you go, I would take one for the team just to read a decent forum about MMORPG's without the idiots trying to be the next Lum the Mad popping in.

What a martyr.

Fuvi · 06-04-2006, 02:49 PM

I should probably know better than to post on a Live Journal thread, but I've done dumber things before.

I'm guessing that Vanguard will be launched without any meaningful PvP and will have considerable lag issues which will be reduced but not removed by temporarily capping the population per server. I'm guessing that they will have one raid encounter completed at launch which will undergo a number of changes and that an early guild in the other nearly completed raid zone will be accused of cheating simply because they manage to defeat content prior to it being properly tuned.

I'm guessing that after launch Devs will continue to focus on what they consider to be priorities and ignore feedback from the community and create something like an automated grouping system that goes virtually unused while promised features like weather, hero classes and ritual spells are never implemented or even officially commented on.

I'm guessing that regardless of ample revenues that the patching cycle will become so infamously slow that a website will be launched with the primary hook of tracking exactly how long it takes between updates. I'm guessing that population imbalances, class envy in it's many forms and many other issues will also plague the game.

I'm guessing that regardless of all these things that people will enjoy playing the game and that it will have over a million subscribers in each of North America and Europe and will surpass 6 million worldwide subscribers within 18 months of launch without even adding an expansion.

Of course these are all guesses. Vanguard could instead be completely scrapped like Warcraft Adventures, have a much smaller market share and completely revamp the game within a year of launch like Everquest II, could release the Saga part of Saga of Heroes in the first expansion like SWG, could launch a fun game with massive balance issues and mostly just focus on a new expansion like City of Heroes or just about anything else.

What isn't a guess is that it's not up to anyone but myself to decide if I should spend money on an unfinished game because I either enjoy playing the unfinished version and/or wish to help finance a new motorcycle for the CEO or the completion of the game. $50 isn't a big deal to me, if a game can provide more fun than dinner, drinks and being shot down then it will be money I've spent in worse ways.

Digits · 06-04-2006, 02:54 PM

I'm glad to hear that you're all for feedback, because I'd like to submit that you are worth less than the shit that spews out of a deer when you hit it with a truck.

I commend your ability to misinterpret shit and then blow it the fuck out of proportoin.

Itzena · 06-04-2006, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuvi

I should probably know better than to post on a Live Journal thread, but I've done dumber things before.

I doubt that.

Lyenae · 06-04-2006, 03:17 PM

Sigil should just make the game they were going to/want to make.

If they fucked up market research (which is supposed to happen before game design btw, not in beta aka alpha), or don't have the development skill to react to the runaway hit that is WoW mid-alpha, then so be it.

Tons of MMO's on the horizon, I have no idea what's the obsession of having one specific MMO succeed.

Rayne · 06-04-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Tons of MMO's on the horizon, I have no idea what's the obsession of having one specific MMO succeed.

Agreed. But I wanted to touch on this particular part. A lot of fans are banking on this game to bring back a lot of the things they found enjoyable about EverQuest. A lot of them are so blinded in that hope, that they actually get extremely defensive at the mere suggestion that some feature they "think" will be in the game might not be exactly what the devs have in mind.

Hence, the beginning of a glorious flamefest.

Many see Vanguard as thier last hope for an opportunity to "relive" thier glory days from EQ. The mere suggestion that it "might not" be exactly what they expect sends them into defensive mode, and brings out rants against WoW, EQ2, or whatever other game they consider "easier than EQ".

They ONLY see this ONE game. They CAN'T see the dozens on the horizon.

FloridaGamer · 06-04-2006, 04:13 PM

Are you even IN the VG beta, Utnayan?

Sithro · 06-04-2006, 04:24 PM

A bud of mine is in beta, he said the same thing about the player population.

I honestly don't care anymore. I'm enjoying myself in EQII, so meh.

Etadanik · 06-04-2006, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Sigil should just make the game they were going to/want to make.

They were doing that. But I guess somewhere down the line reality hit and it became obvious that the game wasn't going to attract the anticipated player base. Now, if Vanguard was a small indie project, that wouldn't be a problem. But for a full-fledged title that likely cost in the millions, falling short is not an option, or at least a very-hard-to-swallow one.

I honestly wouldn't want to be in Sigil's shoes at the moment.

Itzena · 06-04-2006, 04:56 PM

Something for Sigil to read, perhaps?

Laerazi · 06-04-2006, 05:06 PM

Glad to see the developers are focusing feedback now, thanks for the info.

Lyenae · 06-04-2006, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etadanik

They were doing that. But I guess somewhere down the line reality hit and it became obvious that the game wasn't going to attract the anticipated player base. .

I wouldn't call it reality, I'd call it doubt.

Itzena · 06-04-2006, 05:21 PM

I don't know - when your lead designer and game guru says that there's not enough people still playing beta from the thousands invited, it's a pretty good sign that something is wrong somewhere.

Brash · 06-04-2006, 05:32 PM

Sigil needs to stop with the fucking help farmer joe or shopkeep fagalot gather x and focus on solid class specific quests. If I’m a rogue I want quests to find my rogue brotherhood(which should be well hidden in new targ or something). Rise up in the ranks(something beyond just levels and gear). Gather rogue shit. Slice some throats to make my trainer happy. Fuck, I want to kill the mayor of happytown if I could. That should be 80% of the quests right there.

All poison making should be quest driven as well. Make us earn that poison recipe to dip our blades into. Also, poisons should mostly be for procing dmg/debuffs off our daggers not fucking one shot shit. If you made a fucking complex tradskill out of it you fucked up.

Also, less attacks that feel like spells. I hear there is a problem there, heh. If I press and attack button my character better damn well make and cool animation and mean something. Exploiting weaknesses should be 100% visually recognized on the mobs themselves. Fuck you if you think I’m going to look at a reaction bar or for tiny icons all day. And too much button smashing will make most people find another game.

Vanguard needs some fucking markets. Give me a place to sell my shit while I shoot the bull with other vendors. Where are all the arenas? How about a coliseum with gladiatorial fights? Doesn’t EQ2 have this shit? How about something like Roman Carnaval horse racing that I can bet on? Put some fucking life into your game. Even a small town can have some form of market and gambling. If I was a high level player in Vanguard I would be pissed off I have no place to show off my fancy gear. None of this is too hard with the talent sigil has put together.

With today’s scripting tech you can’t have mobs raiding towns and strongholds? Wouldn’t that make vanguard seem more alive and engaging? From the screenshots it looks like vanguard is looking plenty good enough. If I was brad I would light a fire under the programmers(I hear the game runs choppy even with sound off on a good machine. Heh) and content devs(zzzzzzz boring game) or replace them now before it’s too late. Or is it bad leadership and focus on what is truly fun?

But then again I’m not in beta so what the hell do I know. Sorry for the crazy rant. I’m really quite insane you know? Back to the SS forum with me!

Agraza · 06-04-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Also, list 3 reasons why high level players should interact with low level players.

I haven't been inspired by previous vertical dependence. I also haven't noticed the give and take that would signify interdependence. I don't see why there is any effort being applied here. Has this ever been a positive? Has it ever been truly interdependent? I'm curious. I would probably ask the same question of my subscribers were I in their position because I can't see it.

I can't fathom how to manifest it so that it fills a niche rather than creates one unless we're assuming TLC is present. I should expect that TLC is somehow present in VG, but it hasn't been spoken of much, if at all. TLC then creates the niche, but TLC is another arbitrary negative from my perspective. It limits everyone, but is targeted at a minority group of abusers.

I'd certainly like to see it work, but I haven't witnessed any acceptable foundation for either TLC or vertical interdependence.

06-04-2006, 02:54 PM	#33 (permalink)
Digits The good news is that you're still alive. The bad news is that that's the good news. Also, you have no legs. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 'Merica, land of the free. Posts: 1,268 +1 Internets	I'm glad to hear that you're all for feedback, because I'd like to submit that you are worth less than the shit that spews out of a deer when you hit it with a truck. I commend your ability to misinterpret shit and then blow it the fuck out of proportoin. __________________ Hatcher No one cares where

06-04-2006, 04:56 PM	#40 (permalink)
Itzena SOS-dan #76564674 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Near a big fucking castle, the UK Posts: 7,158 -25 Internets	Something for Sigil to read, perhaps? __________________

06-04-2006, 05:21 PM	#43 (permalink)
Itzena SOS-dan #76564674 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Near a big fucking castle, the UK Posts: 7,158 -25 Internets	I don't know - when your lead designer and game guru says that there's not enough people still playing beta from the thousands invited, it's a pretty good sign that something is wrong somewhere. __________________

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06-04-2006, 02:49 PM	#32 (permalink)
Fuvi Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 80 -1 Internets	I should probably know better than to post on a Live Journal thread, but I've done dumber things before. I'm guessing that Vanguard will be launched without any meaningful PvP and will have considerable lag issues which will be reduced but not removed by temporarily capping the population per server. I'm guessing that they will have one raid encounter completed at launch which will undergo a number of changes and that an early guild in the other nearly completed raid zone will be accused of cheating simply because they manage to defeat content prior to it being properly tuned. I'm guessing that after launch Devs will continue to focus on what they consider to be priorities and ignore feedback from the community and create something like an automated grouping system that goes virtually unused while promised features like weather, hero classes and ritual spells are never implemented or even officially commented on. I'm guessing that regardless of ample revenues that the patching cycle will become so infamously slow that a website will be launched with the primary hook of tracking exactly how long it takes between updates. I'm guessing that population imbalances, class envy in it's many forms and many other issues will also plague the game. I'm guessing that regardless of all these things that people will enjoy playing the game and that it will have over a million subscribers in each of North America and Europe and will surpass 6 million worldwide subscribers within 18 months of launch without even adding an expansion. Of course these are all guesses. Vanguard could instead be completely scrapped like Warcraft Adventures, have a much smaller market share and completely revamp the game within a year of launch like Everquest II, could release the Saga part of Saga of Heroes in the first expansion like SWG, could launch a fun game with massive balance issues and mostly just focus on a new expansion like City of Heroes or just about anything else. What isn't a guess is that it's not up to anyone but myself to decide if I should spend money on an unfinished game because I either enjoy playing the unfinished version and/or wish to help finance a new motorcycle for the CEO or the completion of the game. $50 isn't a big deal to me, if a game can provide more fun than dinner, drinks and being shot down then it will be money I've spent in worse ways.

06-04-2006, 03:17 PM	#35 (permalink)
Lyenae Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,664 -103 Internets	Sigil should just make the game they were going to/want to make. If they fucked up market research (which is supposed to happen before game design btw, not in beta aka alpha), or don't have the development skill to react to the runaway hit that is WoW mid-alpha, then so be it. Tons of MMO's on the horizon, I have no idea what's the obsession of having one specific MMO succeed.

06-04-2006, 04:13 PM	#37 (permalink)
FloridaGamer Retard Rehabilitation Program Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 105 +0 Internets	Are you even IN the VG beta, Utnayan?

06-04-2006, 05:06 PM	#41 (permalink)
Laerazi Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 1,288 -2 Internets	Glad to see the developers are focusing feedback now, thanks for the info.

06-04-2006, 05:32 PM	#44 (permalink)
Brash Banned Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 415 +0 Internets	Sigil needs to stop with the fucking help farmer joe or shopkeep fagalot gather x and focus on solid class specific quests. If I’m a rogue I want quests to find my rogue brotherhood(which should be well hidden in new targ or something). Rise up in the ranks(something beyond just levels and gear). Gather rogue shit. Slice some throats to make my trainer happy. Fuck, I want to kill the mayor of happytown if I could. That should be 80% of the quests right there. All poison making should be quest driven as well. Make us earn that poison recipe to dip our blades into. Also, poisons should mostly be for procing dmg/debuffs off our daggers not fucking one shot shit. If you made a fucking complex tradskill out of it you fucked up. Also, less attacks that feel like spells. I hear there is a problem there, heh. If I press and attack button my character better damn well make and cool animation and mean something. Exploiting weaknesses should be 100% visually recognized on the mobs themselves. Fuck you if you think I’m going to look at a reaction bar or for tiny icons all day. And too much button smashing will make most people find another game. Vanguard needs some fucking markets. Give me a place to sell my shit while I shoot the bull with other vendors. Where are all the arenas? How about a coliseum with gladiatorial fights? Doesn’t EQ2 have this shit? How about something like Roman Carnaval horse racing that I can bet on? Put some fucking life into your game. Even a small town can have some form of market and gambling. If I was a high level player in Vanguard I would be pissed off I have no place to show off my fancy gear. None of this is too hard with the talent sigil has put together. With today’s scripting tech you can’t have mobs raiding towns and strongholds? Wouldn’t that make vanguard seem more alive and engaging? From the screenshots it looks like vanguard is looking plenty good enough. If I was brad I would light a fire under the programmers(I hear the game runs choppy even with sound off on a good machine. Heh) and content devs(zzzzzzz boring game) or replace them now before it’s too late. Or is it bad leadership and focus on what is truly fun? But then again I’m not in beta so what the hell do I know. Sorry for the crazy rant. I’m really quite insane you know? Back to the SS forum with me!