Lame warrior thread 6/06

[ex-genj]

In the hopes that we get an actual review this time I thought I'd crap this little beauty out.

Rend/improved rend: this skill has completely passed the game by, an artifact of summer 04 which has no use in pve at all and one use in pvp, to prevent rogues from getting away in 1v1 situations and the situations where its useful for that is incredibly rare, like once a month rare. Completely revamp this skill and its talent - battle stance is already the weakest stance by far and could use a powerful unique ability. At a bare minimum double the total damage and reduce the duration in half but even that won't do much.

Tactical mastery: the amount of backpeddling and tough-guy "don't wanna cave in" BS from the CMs regarding this talent is pathetic. To even consider that IAE, innervate or hurricane ( ) is more of a core class ability than TM is ludicrous. This is the original must have talent, every single build INCLUDING full prot has TM, 99% of them 5/5. For fucks sake make this skill latent or trainable and give warriors 51 talent points instead of 46 already. A solid replacement would be a 3 or 5 point +hit % talent, something that is sorely needed.

Tclap/improved tclap: see rend. A terrible relic of a skill that has no (and never did) value or use in this game at all. Needs a complete rework of what it does to make it cool and useful, hell its got a good animation already, can we ever see it? Unbelievably this talent was "improved" to being less rage (HAHAHAHA) from being more damage - both of which are completely useless on this 4 second cooldown skill. Could potentially be a nice addition to balancing out battle stance like rend.

Anger management: will this skill ever be fixed?

Sweeping strikes: not sure if this has surpassed MS as the most nerfed skill ever but the latest one has literally pushed it passed the brink of usefulness. Compare this to its fury tree counterpart death wish - it is now utterly not worth while using in normal pvp situations as 30 rage doesn't just come out of nowhere and now does very little. Easy solution: make it cost 10 rage like deathwish, and it will be a decent situational pvp skill.

Imp intercept: I'll just come out and say it, this talent is simply too good. Its a 3 sec stun that is 30 sec w/o talent, the 2 point talent drops it to 20 sec, and the ubiquitous 4 piece set bonus is a ludicrously good -5 sec to intercept as well. Make the base skill 25 sec, the 2 point talent -2/-5, and make nerf the 4 piece bonus to something less insanely overpowered/necessary.

Slam/imp slam: ...any guesses what I'm gonna say here? Third base warrior skill of virtually zero use at all - no other class is littered with these artifacts of garbage. Revamp this into a cool 2h fury war skill, make the the talent good, etc etc.

Imp pummel/imp whirlwind: wru? a straight 2 point talent deep in fury that reduces the cd on both by 1/2 seconds would be terrific for certain builds/pvp.

Imp disarm/shield wall: woefully underpowered, making both of these 1 point for an additional 5 seconds MIGHT make this worth picking up.

Imp sunder/1h spec: woefully underpowered/useless to get

Imp shield bash: virtually zero use in raid situations which is the only reason people go deep prot anyways. Revamp.

Vitality/+resist talent in prot: please don't put this in and make prot tanks necessary. Its already lame enough with the flaskoholics.

[Kolle]

warriors won't get much sympathy as long as they continue raping anything and everything in pvp on top of being the lead pve dps. i know prot wars have more room to whine, but it's not as if other classes are completely replacing warriors as the main tank.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by ex-genj

Vitality/+resist talent in prot: please don't put this in and make prot tanks necessary. Its already lame enough with the flaskoholics.

please let me tank with a PVP build, we warriors are special, so we deserve special treatment. go spec restoration, druid bitch!

[Zarcath]

Make Rend based on amount of rage used.

We still use Thunder Clap on some bosses.

Pummel is pretty overpowered in it's original form.

Vitality should stay in Prot, though resists could make sense in the fury tree, maybe we only get boosted resists while in beserker stance.

Also I've been thinking, Defiance in protection only works in def stance, while the threat glove enchant works in any stance. I'm thinking that threat enchant > defiance.

The only reason why warriors SEEM to rape is because of the armor/weapons we get. You give any other class the same items and they'd rape too. It's just our combination of armor/def/avoidance + weapons. Don't make us have shitty abilities because our equipment is good.

[dak]

please let me tank with a PVP build, we warriors are special, so we deserve special treatment. go spec restoration, druid bitch!

To their credit PVP build warrior DPS's like a rogue. Our two weilding asscandies are in top 10 all the time, often top 5.

Moonkin or Feral druids DPS like...smite priests? Don't think I've ever seen a druid in top 10 dps and they have tried hard in my guild.

Seriously though, fuck intercept. Being able to completely negate the range disadvantage casters get every 20 seconds is lame as hell. Especially with tendon rip.

Also don't forget about Mortal Strike debuff. -50% to healing is THE most powerful pvp debuff in the game. It just widens the gap between insane weapon itemization and paltry +heal gains with new content.

As a warlock I'd trade CoEX, CoR, CoW, CoD for a debuff that works like mortal strike in a heart beat.

[Kolle]

I've always been an advocate of having classes fill their group/raid roll while speccing anyway they like. Some classes do get this luxury and others don't. The innervate change does help. They still need to do it for the rest.

Warriors aren't too scary before they get a bunch of epics, this is true. I don't understand why they don't change the way that works. Make warriors stronger on their own without the top gear and somehow tone down how much gear benefits them.

[Quineloe]

if your MS warriors get even close to your rogues, your rogues suck. You have a decent fury warrior? He should be well above your Ashkandi warriors.

I hate 31/5/15 warriors. they can't DPS; once vitality hits they're not as good at tanking high single target dps mobs either, they just tag along with your raid to score epics to PVP with.

If you want to DPS as a warrior instead of tank, take that up with your guild, but spare us with this "Make prot suck so I don't have to take it" nonsense

A resist talent in Fury / Arms is totally out of the question. Let's make warriors invulnerable as well?

Also I've been thinking, Defiance in protection only works in def stance, while the threat glove enchant works in any stance. I'm thinking that threat enchant > defiance.

Why would you want extra threat when not in def stance? What made you "ThinK" that?

[bunnehs]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

if your MS warriors get even close to your rogues, your rogues suck. You have a decent fury warrior? He should be well above your Ashkandi warriors.

While I agree that rogues should easily beat out MS warriors, not every warrior with a sick 2h is MS. 2h fury is nearly as capable of out-dps'in rogues in single target encounters as DW fury, and 2h fury can easily eclipse that damage in multi target situations (generally only trash clearing, however).

Most of what the OP said is spot-on. Rend is only useful in pve if you want to piss off your warlocks by knocking off curses. Thunderclap is nice if you don't have a Thunderfury, otherwise it's worthless. Both talents are absolutely horrible, and only Imp. Rend is taken because it's a prereq.

[Pren]

Battle stance's powerful, unique ability is called Overpower, which we all call overpowered, because it is. Hey, that cloth caster with a 4% chance to dodge (meanwhile, the warrior is running around with 12% dodge and 10% parry, or the rogue 25% dodge 11% parry) fucking had the audacity to dodge a hamstring? Crit him for 1500 for it.

And rend? Should do twice as much damage, half as fast, for a total of 400% as much dps? Are you fucking stupid? 400 dot damage in 10 seconds for 10 rage?

It's not mitigated by armor, for 30 rage that's 1200 damage, which is a shitload of guaranteed damage for 30 rage. It's also more fucking dot damage than moonfire does. It's bad enough that deep wounds is already a better DoT than moonfire, this suggestion is retarded.

Slam is real powerful for undergeared two handed warriors. Unfortunately if you buff it it'll be too good. Right now it's retarded that it has a 1.0 cast time improved, but warrior global cooldown is 1.5 (so all it does is make it easier to get a slam off uninterrupted, or on a moving target...or limited pvp application because of that.)

Pummel is already sick, you don't even need it half the time against healers because of mortal strike, or the insane damage fury warriors put out. Whirlwind is equally sick.




Tactical mastery should be a core ability. No question. The only guess i have is that they feel that 5/31/15 builds will be too good of tanks or something, with flurry and enrage and defiance combined with deathwish and the ability to switch stances. But tactical mastery is just an ignorant throwback. Course, feral charge should be a core druid ability too, since it pretty much eliminates balance builds from being viable.

Improved shield wall and disarm are really bad, yeah. Maybe improved disarm should make your disarm go through disarm immunity.

21+ point prot talent that lets mocking blow and challenging shout work in pvp.

[Cadrid]

ARMS TREE
Underpowered Talents
The following is a list of talents that are underpowered, or do not scale effectively.

Improved Hamstring: It's placement in the tree does not reflect it's current power.

Improved Heroic Strike: Could use a secondary function to make it worthwhile.

Improved Rend: Currently is ONLY taken to get to Impale. Not worth the talent points, otherwise.

Tactical Mastery: A needed talent for any Warrior build to work effectively. Needs to be reworked/have an equivalent talent put in other trees.

Deep Wounds: Sucks up far too many debuff slots with multiple Deep Wounds warriors.

Two-Handed Weapon Spec: Talent point cost is too high/the bonus is too small for it's cost.


Tweakable Talents
The following is a list of talents that could use some minor tweaking in their strength or functionality.

Weapon Specializations: Axe/Sword specs are more powerful than Mace/Polearm, especially considering Polearm's awkward placement.


Useless Talents
The following is a list of talents that are deemed worthless and a complete waste of talent points.

Improved Thunderclap: In the same boat as Improved Heroic Strike and Improved Sunder Armor, except it's Rage cost makes this talent even more laughable.


FURY TREE
Underpowered Talents

Blood Craze: Does not stack if the Warrior is hit by multiple crits, reducing it's effectiveness.


Tweakable Talents

Improved Slam: It's power does not reflect it's position in the tree.


Desired Talents:

Precision: Warriors miss far too often with their offhand and have no way of preventing this aside from stacking up on +hit% gear.

Improved Whirlwind: An increase to the Whirlwind radius while keeping the maximum number of targets the same.


PROTECTION TREE
Underpowered Talents

Anticipation: Even post-Defense nerf, paying 5 talent points for 10 Defense is far too great a price to pay.

Iron Will: While good for Orc Warriors (since it ups their stun resist to 40%) Iron Will is another minor bonus for far too high a cost.

Improved Sunder Armor: Protection-specced Warriors are, typically, vying for a tanking role. This makes Rage generation a very small issue, since they typically take a ton of damage, and the 3 Rage saved on Improved Sunder another large waste of points.

One-Handed Weapon Specialization: I may sound like a broken record, but once again: the price is far greater than the benefit.


Useless Talents

Improved Shield Block (past 1 point): Spending any more than 1 point in this talent is an absolute waste as the 1 second of extra block time is almost never needed.

Improved Disarm: The use for this skill is incredibly situational to start with, with the introduction of Disarm immunity gear making it all-the-more useless.


Tweakable Talents

Improved Bloodrage: The damage reduction makes it less likely to get a Warrior killed when he uses Bloodrage while tanking. It's just a little bland in what it does.

Last Stand: Great in concept, bad in use. Losing those hitpoints aftewards can get a tank killed quite easily.

Improved Shield Bash: Being able to Silence an enemy for 3 seconds is nice for Pre-MC instances and PvP, but after that it is very rare a mob is silenceable. An added function to make Shield Bash more viable in the End Game would be appreciated.

Improved Taunt: Having a shorter cooldown on Taunt can make the difference between a living squishy or a dead one, but the power of the talent seems very weak for a mid-tree talent.

Concussion Blow: This talent is decent, especially post-MC where mobs aren't all stun-immune, but it doesn't make sense as a pre-req for Shield Slam.


Desired Talents

Increased Health Pool: Vitality is in-the-works, but we're just reaffirming that this is a talent we truly desire.

Spell Resistances: Some method of mitigating incoming spell damage through a form other than stacking up resist gear.

Mitigating Damage on Allies: A skill that allows Protection-specced Warriors to guard an ally and lessen the amount of damage they take.

Shield Discipline: With the more recent focus on Blocking as a means of damage mitigation, a re-emergence of Shield Discipline (in a modified form, perhaps) would be welcome.

[Zarcath]

Originally Posted by dak

To their credit PVP build warrior DPS's like a rogue. Our two weilding asscandies are in top 10 all the time, often top 5.

Just because they're using askhandi's doesn't mean they're MS. Askhandi Fury wars out-dps my dual wielding.

[Quineloe]

The true protection problem is that it has far too many 5 point talents. If Vitality really comes as a 5 point talent, Protection will be the most expensive tree in the entire game. Especially stupid that warlocks get the very same talent, except Tier1 and 15% instead of 5.

My solutions to protection are pretty simple.
1. Defiance gives 3 instead of 2 points per rank.
2. Iron will gives +10% resist per rank, 3 ranks
3. 1H spec gives 3%/rank, moved to level 2 so you can actually level up on protection, using 1h+shield
4. IBS is reduced to two ranks, each rank increasing the block charges by 1.
5. Vitality comes as a 3 rank talent, increasing hp by 3/6/10%.
6. New level 6 talent would be spell protection, 4% less spell damage per point, 5/5 = 20%. Totally unaccessable for a DPS PVP warrior.

[Clericnon2boxed]

Will there be no new talents with TBC ?

Deep wounds, should probably stack somehow?, its decent with a big bad 2h in PVP. (it's Prereq are of course wasted points atm)

Polearm spec should be just added to Axe. I'd like to see some dagger love too.

Anyhow dont fuck with intercept.

[Vagoo]

Tclap/improved tclap: see rend. A terrible relic of a skill that has no (and never did) value or use in this game at all.

err... reducing boss mob melee output by 10% is useless? funny take on that.

[Fendryl]

Improved Taunt - 50% Chance per point for your Taunt ability to work against PvP targets, also reduces the cooldown of your Taunt ability by 1 sec

Wow, PvP group usefulness for a protection tank - who'd a thunk?