Lame warrior thread 6/06

[WarderX]

I really have a hard time finding the pattern that the dev's use to decide what to change and what to not chage. They've always been tough on little things tactical mastery- why?
Why are they such hard asses about some small things, it's such a non-issue with the usual proposed change. I just don't get it.

P.S. Every time you people talk about hunters, you get so many things wrong, I don't understand.... It's really not that confusing... Do you actually play the class? Because you obviously don't understand a lot of our skills at all.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by FuckYou

once again you play up the oh-so-hard hunter angle while downplaying the warrior side.

first off, you have to wait up to 30 seconds for intercept. second, you have to have the rage. third, as has already been mentioned, wingclip snares more than hamstring, so you can run away. fourth, there is a "dead zone" that is too far to melee your opponent yet too close to range/intercept. fifth, the whole time a fucking pet can be beating on us. sixth, unless jesus smiles on us we're not going to one or even two shot you when we do catch you, meaning the whole cycle begins anew.

your post are absurd.

Bloodrage + me shooting you = you will have rage. I've never seen a warrior not intercept me due to lack of rage. Wingclip does snare 40% while hamstring snares 50% - but how long do you think it'll take to get out of melee range with a 10% speed differential? And then how long do you think wingclip lasts.. oh yes.. hamstring lasts longer.. so GG when you finally get of melee range at 1/4 health wing clip wears off and he runs at you full speed while you're still hamstrung. Thats just fucking dumb. Nevermind that you have been taking it in the pooper the whole time because you can't outrun them while facing them.

And if you think you can maintain a 3 yard range in WoW lag with both targets moving, you are fucking dumb. He can turn the other direction and have the distance to intercept on his screen before my screen even shows he's turned. I've had priests put SW:P on me before he's even in range on my screen to shoot him, and I have alot more range than he does. Keeping range is not easy when the players aren't where your screen shows them to be.

Oh noes, my 50dps pet which is 22-23 dps on warrior armor is going to own you! Maybe if you stood there for 5 minutes?

And yes, I definitely wouldn't mind seeing protection get some major buffs - every single warrior is 31/5/15, 31/20, or 17/34 these days and it's stupid. Protection needs a reason to exist.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by FuckYou

third, as has already been mentioned, wingclip snares more than hamstring, so you can run away.

Come the fuck on man. You're grasping at straws here. It's a 10% difference. You really think we can just sprint away from you at 10% speed? The melee range of 5 yards is also a very healthy range and you fight well within that. You'll still be hacking away at us for several seconds.

fourth, there is a "dead zone" that is too far to melee your opponent yet too close to range/intercept.

During which time we can't melee or shoot you either..

fifth, the whole time a fucking pet can be beating on us.

Which is doing all of fucking 25 dps to you post-mitigation. You poor thing.

[chu]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

if your MS warriors get even close to your rogues, your rogues suck. You have a decent fury warrior? He should be well above your Ashkandi warriors.

I hate 31/5/15 warriors. they can't DPS; once vitality hits they're not as good at tanking high single target dps mobs either, they just tag along with your raid to score epics to PVP with.

If you want to DPS as a warrior instead of tank, take that up with your guild, but spare us with this "Make prot suck so I don't have to take it" nonsense

A resist talent in Fury / Arms is totally out of the question. Let's make warriors invulnerable as well?


Why would you want extra threat when not in def stance? What made you "ThinK" that?

Go die in a goddamn car fire. Putting a vitality talent will sooner or later make it required. THe key difference between your druid analogy is that a resto druid still has a fucking role in pvp and it probably does it even better in that spec. A protection warrior is absolutely useless in pvp.

edit: The vitality talent that was shortly there at the 20 point mark would have crippled warriors in pvp. It would be either 300hp or 5% crit. A much better choice would be to fix the talent and make it +30% hp.

That way its required for pve but its also good enough to offset the loss of 5% crit in pvp.

[Bizanich]

Cad, Makata. Please, delete your hunters or go buy a cable modem (Lag..lol). Patrick had a really funny post about messing with a coworker via protection talents and I missed it because I was bleeding from the eyeballs after your posts showing you're inept at PvP. Both of you.

As for the thread.....

I'm not against vitality so long as they make Protection PvP viable at the same time it goes in. I really don't want to be shoehorned into a talent tree.

And before people go "haha, druid", Druids still serve a role in PvP as a healer. I <3 healing druids.

A protection spec warrior, currently? They have a use against paladins in 1 vs 1's, otherwise the warrior should log off and play an alt. It's not the same.

[xar]

Leave it to the wonder retards to turn this into another "my class Vs the world" thread. Fuck off and let people discuss the actual topic, getting warrior talents unfucked. No one cares about warrior vs hunter duel balance, morons.


Protection needs a benefit in PvE. Currently you sacrafice all of your pvp ability for virtually zero benefit to tanking, with very very few exceptions. One of a couple things needs to happen here.

Now, in a perfect world (my world) we'd hop into the time machine back to beta. Just to be clear here, I've been a protection warrior since phase 2. I've spent a great deal of this time spec'd to be MS. Why? Because MS since the dawn of time has accounted for roughly 50% of warrior damage (this is prior to fury being jebus). Now, this idea would not work out today, because as I just mentioned, fury is jebus. However, let's pretend we're back in beta where fury was useful for about 2 weeks of exploitation and there after disregarded more so than protection is currently.

Where am I going with all of this? It's simple. You make MS a base warrior ability. You then add a 31 arms talent that adds a minor damage increase and the -heal% debuff to MS. Either that, or you make heroic strike an instant attack ability linked to MS, without the debuff. What do you get now? Well specing 31 points in arms doesn't suddenly DOUBLE your dps. You can now go for protection, and not worry about having zero use outside of your 2% benefit to tanking above the DPS warriors who are doubling your damage output and still tanking just as well (with better aggro generation). At the same time, specing arms or an imaginary fury tree would offer a nice bonus to your damage, without accounting for basically all of it.

Now in today's game, this wouldn't quite work out. Giving fury spec'd warriors MS would be quite a disaster, but like I said, this would be in a perfect world where dev's didn't fuck warriors from the get-go.

The other solution. FUCK dps warriors. Make protection damn near REQUIRED to tank any meaningful boss mob. At LEAST to the point of where you're honestly doing yourself a diservice by not having a prot tank. Fuck you and fuck your have your fury cake and eat it too attitude. Is it really that unfair? How many guilds roll with all shadow priests or elemental shaman? Feral druids? ect ect. It's all you retarded DPS warriors who make it impossible for those of us who WANT TO TANK to have a decent means of upgrading our tanking. Instead I go MS build with 15 in prot, so I'm just barely gay enough to still be shitty in PvP, and gain 98% of the usefulness out of protection in the first 16 points spent. The other 2% would be conc blow for 2 fights in AQ if you're horde. Good fucking game. It's also not as if this would make DPS warriors completely void of any tanking, we're seeing more and more offtanking needed in zones like AQ. When it comes down to numero uno badass mob though, GTFO with your fury bullshit, we want a real tank. That is how it SHOULD be.

I'm sick of the tree I've WANTED to use since I started playing being a total piece of shit. Get your shit together and stop cattering to whiney faggots who can't fathom not being able to do everything at the same time.

Possibly the dumbest piece of shit ever would be shield slam as a 31pt talent. Are you fucking kidding me? Yea, that's just why I went protection. So I can DAMAGE STUFF WITH MY SHIELD. Put down the 8 foot hooka and let the opium haze clear from your brain.

Now for a fucking start, go back and take SHIELD DISCIPLINE, the saving grace for prot that was removed in favor of a DPS talent that still ensures prot wars are fucking garbage at BOTH dps and tanking. You had a good thing going. Shield disc should double the block value on your shield, it should also add a % (based off your actual block %) chance to deflect SPELL damage. This could work any number of ways to err on the side of balance, but the concept is the same. Throw another little perk in there, like maybe your next shield slam after using discpline will act as a cleave, or a gimic % proc triggered off blocks. Anything.

Now, you take this, add vitality, put current shield slam in the place of whatever piece of shit talent you want to (plenty to chose from), make a few 5pt talents into 3pt talents, and you have yourself a well rounded, decent tree with a solid ~20% benefit to tankability.

Or just keep going like your going and remove prot from the god damn game.

[chaos]

I like the cut of xar's jib.

[Deris]

Originally Posted by Bizanich

I'm not against vitality so long as they make Protection PvP viable at the same time it goes in. I really don't want to be shoehorned into a talent tree.

And before people go "haha, druid", Druids still serve a role in PvP as a healer. I <3 healing druids.

A protection spec warrior, currently? They have a use against paladins in 1 vs 1's, otherwise the warrior should log off and play an alt. It's not the same.

I log off and pvp on my rogue because currently my disc/holy priest is pretty damn useless in any pvp that matters.

Yeah I can smite pug retards for an amazing 500 damage every 2s at 33 yards. Then two people focus fire me and I get rocked. Hooray.

[Dyvim]

It's also not as if this would make DPS warriors completely void of any tanking, we're seeing more and more offtanking needed in zones like AQ. When it comes down to numero uno badass mob though, GTFO with your fury bullshit, we want a real tank. That is how it SHOULD be.

A-fucking-men.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by xar

Lots of good points

Good post, may I add a resist talent in your suggestion box. Being able to use tank gear instead of resist gear would be a protection talent imo.

[Wodin]

When it comes down to numero uno badass mob though, GTFO with your fury bullshit, we want a real tank. That is how it SHOULD be.

That's how it already is, though. Protection tanks generate more threat and need less healing than non-Prot tanks, and it makes a difference in the performance of the raid as a whole. Healers have more mana, DPS classes can push harder, and as a result things die faster.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Wodin

That's how it already is, though. Protection tanks generate more threat and need less healing than non-Prot tanks, and it makes a difference in the performance of the raid as a whole. Healers have more mana, DPS classes can push harder, and as a result things die faster.

Uhh Wodin, Fury/Prot (with no TM) generates more threat and has as much damage mitigation as a full 31 protection warrior does. Not to mention when I am not MTing a mob I can DPS by switching my gear around. I would love to see one of our 31 Prot tanks out DPS me.

My build 0/32/19. Flurry is a godsend for weapons like Spineshatter. Improved Taunt, Last Stand, Defiance, Imp Blood rage, Imp Shield Block, Toughness. Past that what else is there in Protection I need?

Note: I used to have 33 in Prot w/ Tact Mastery

[Dyvim]

Originally Posted by Wodin

That's how it already is, though. Protection tanks generate more threat and need less healing than non-Prot tanks, and it makes a difference in the performance of the raid as a whole. Healers have more mana, DPS classes can push harder, and as a result things die faster.

Sure, it makes a difference. What I'd like is for it to not even be possible without 31 prot.

[Bizanich]

Originally Posted by Deris

I log off and pvp on my rogue because currently my disc/holy priest is pretty damn useless in any pvp that matters.

Yeah I can smite pug retards for an amazing 500 damage every 2s at 33 yards. Then two people focus fire me and I get rocked. Hooray.

People focus fire any caster 'cept some warlocks and they drop, that's not a talent issue. You just don't like being a squishie

You're still a helluva lot more useful to a PvP group then a protection warrior, you can't argue that. You can still cause your group to win.

[xar]

Originally Posted by Wodin

That's how it already is, though. Protection tanks generate more threat and need less healing than non-Prot tanks, and it makes a difference in the performance of the raid as a whole. Healers have more mana, DPS classes can push harder, and as a result things die faster.

10% more white damage aggro, that's it. Name one other benefit in damage mitigation or aggro generation that you gain from going past 16 points in protection.