Lame warrior thread 6/06

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Bizanich

What the fuck.

I didn't go crazy on Makata, despite his suggestions being retarded and a massive buff and ignored his obvious pvp inadequacy, but this is even better.

If a Hunter cannot beat an equivalent tier warrior in a 1 on 1 they need to put a gun to their head and pull the trigger.

You may not have played the game in a while, I'll cut you some slack. Back when traps didn't diminish (they only last 15 seconds anyways) and scatter shot wasn't linked to the trap diminishing returns, this was true. I could defeat my guilds warriors without taking a single hit, or at most 1 or 2 at the end. To be fair, this was a relatively long duel, 60-90 seconds due to hp and armor.

Fast forward to today, where scatter shot and freezing traps are on the same diminishing returns, and you will not be able to keep range in most cases. With the weapons most warriors have you will be dead in melee range very quickly. It's not the same as it used to be, and warriors are very dangerous now.

[Dyvim]

Oh no, warriors might be able to beat rogues and hunters in a duel! QUICK, NERF INTERCEPT AND OVERPOWER SO THIS IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE!!!!!

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Dyvim

Oh no, warriors might be able to beat rogues and hunters in a duel! QUICK, NERF INTERCEPT AND OVERPOWER SO THIS IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE!!!!!

I plainly said I don't care about losing to warriors. They aren't my targets. Given how badly hunters can rape several other classes, it's okay that someone can give us a serious asskicking. The thing is for a class that is supposedly limited by being in melee range warriors sure have alot of ways to maintain it and get it back when they lose it.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Cad

I plainly said I don't care about losing to warriors. They aren't my targets. Given how badly hunters can rape several other classes, it's okay that someone can give us a serious asskicking. The thing is for a class that is supposedly limited by being in melee range warriors sure have alot of ways to maintain it and get it back when they lose it.

As opposed to your solution, we get one shot at it and were fucked otherwise. Good solution.

[Algol Devilstar]

Originally Posted by Bizanich

What the fuck.

I didn't go crazy on Makata, despite his suggestions being retarded and a massive buff and ignored his obvious pvp inadequacy, but this is even better.

If a Hunter cannot beat an equivalent tier warrior in a 1 on 1 they need to put a gun to their head and pull the trigger.

I agree.

[PatrickStar]

Last week a co-worker of mine started WoW. He used to come by my desk and make sarcastic comments when he would see I had WoW related stuff on my monitor. So anyways he asked me for some tips on his how to handle talents since his warrior can get them now.

To get back at him I told him most warriors leveling up go the protection tree.

How fucked up does a talent tree have to be that I can use that as a way to mess with someone?

[Bizanich]

Originally Posted by Cad

Fast forward to today, where scatter shot and freezing traps are on the same diminishing returns, and you will not be able to keep range in most cases. With the weapons most warriors have you will be dead in melee range very quickly. It's not the same as it used to be, and warriors are very dangerous now.

Oh, I know it's not a 100% win rate now like it used to be versus Warriors, but it's all gear now. If you're not winning, get better weapons.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Dis

As opposed to your solution, we get one shot at it and were fucked otherwise. Good solution.

Sounds familiar. If I get hamstrung, it's gg. I have to kite perfectly in low lag and have my trap in the right spot to suck up the intercept. You have to mash intercept while pointing your character in my general direction while holding "forward". These are not equal-skill situations.

Put scatter and freezing traps back on separate diminishing returns sections, and I won't complain about intercept because I'll be able to handle it. The thing about kiting classes against melee is either you win flawlessly (like a mage vs. warrior, they can handle everything you can throw at them) or you lose like a complete noob (mage who burned blink at the wrong time). There's a very fine line between the kiting class becoming God and the kiting class being a waste of space. It can easily go the wrong way and hunters become unkillable - thats not what I want. If I had some way to get hamstring off of me that didn't involve a 5 minute cooldown, the fight would be crazy and actual kiting. As it is it's "can I trap him through the intercept, then kill him before intercept is up again? if so, win, if not, lose." period.

[Dis]

My proposed changes to warrior tree:

TM is an innate talent so that when you change stances you maintain 10 rage. Simple enough without giving us the full benefit of the Tact Mastery talent.

Arms Tree:

- Bump up the damage done by Improved Rend

- Take out Improved Thunderclap: I am not saying thunderclap is useless, I am saying the talent is.

- Imp Tact Mastery - retain 15/20/25 rage when switchings stances

- Replace with a talent called Precision: 3 pt Talent that allows 1/2/3% to hit

I would say change the way weapon spec works, but since Blizzard has finally come to their sense with talent cost decay I am not so much in favor of this idea.

- Lower the rage cost of Sweeping Strikes.


Fury Tree:

IMO it is the only tree which has pretty much 1 through 31 good talents. Only thing I would suggest is increasing the heal effect from Bloodthirst.


Protection tree:

- Iron Will - Changed to a 1pt talent that allows a player to break fear, stun, charm spell (1pt talent) 5 minute cooldown

- Last stand needs to be on a 4 minute cooldown

- Remove Imp Disarm - useless

- Change Imp Sunder armor - improves threat by 1/2/3/4/5%

- Remove Imp Shield bash and replace 1h weapon spec

- Imp shield wall - 1pt talent that reduces the cooldown of shield wall to every 15 minutes, still shares cooldown with reck, and ret. (IE cooldown for others resets to 30 even if shieldwall is used every 15 min)

- Add Vitality - duh

- Add Chromatic Armor - 5pt talent that will give .2/.4/.6/.8/1 pt of resist for every level.

- Shield Slam - add 100% chance to silence, and 50% chance to remove buff

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Cad

First off, your pet puts them in combat as soon as you click "attack" so do so well out of range.

You sure? It sure doesn't put me in combat when I click attack and rogues can certainly stealth when my bat is on his way ..

feign/trap

I can't isolate it .. but this very often doesn't work for me. My pet is always on passive and I always pull him off before feigning. At first I thought it was due to having a bleed effect but I've done it successfully with that up too. Pretty sure it's a confirmed bug and being fixed on PTR, but at least 1/3 of the time if not more feign/trap doesn't work.

Edit: I'll admit I've had the pleasure of playing the 2 classes that have difficulty with well geared warriors for different reasons. I really don't get where some of you get the idea a hunter should auto-win vs warrior. Perhaps in fantasy land where I can put you in combat at precisely 41 yards away with a trap already down and scattershot and trinket up. I got no problems being weak vs warriors because against cloth and leather classes I can usually do well. I simply don't get why you get such good measures to keep a close range (you'd raise hell if you couldn't as its the only way you can deal damage) but both of our ways of getting 8+ yards are linked on the same DR and you probably think that's a good idea. Please explain why cheap shot and kidney aren't on the same DR when they are both a stun .. yet a disorienting 4 second close range shot is on the same DR as a trap?

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Cad

Sounds familiar. If I get hamstrung, it's gg. I have to kite perfectly in low lag and have my trap in the right spot to suck up the intercept. You have to mash intercept while pointing your character in my general direction while holding "forward". These are not equal-skill situations.

Put scatter and freezing traps back on separate diminishing returns sections, and I won't complain about intercept because I'll be able to handle it. The thing about kiting classes against melee is either you win flawlessly (like a mage vs. warrior, they can handle everything you can throw at them) or you lose like a complete noob (mage who burned blink at the wrong time). There's a very fine line between the kiting class becoming God and the kiting class being a waste of space. It can easily go the wrong way and hunters become unkillable - thats not what I want. If I had some way to get hamstring off of me that didn't involve a 5 minute cooldown, the fight would be crazy and actual kiting. As it is it's "can I trap him through the intercept, then kill him before intercept is up again? if so, win, if not, lose." period.

Not going to get into symantics with you, but a good hunter will keep a warrior at bay even with intercept/hamstring/int shout. Not to mention certain hunter builds can offset a fury warrior imp intercept. (which is a certain warrior build)

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Makata

You sure? It sure doesn't put me in combat when I click attack and rogues can certainly stealth when my bat is on his way ..

Yep. And yes rogues can stealth if they do it fast enough, but your pet will still go and hit them. It's hilarious to watch, infuriating for them though. Shouldn't be an issue since you should mark rogues at max range anyway.

Originally Posted by Makata

I can't isolate it .. but this very often doesn't work for me. My pet is always on passive and I always pull him off before feigning. At first I thought it was due to having a bleed effect but I've done it successfully with that up too. Pretty sure it's a confirmed bug and being fixed on PTR, but at least 1/3 of the time if not more feign/trap doesn't work.

Yea, I have it macro'd and it still doesn't work sometimes. Just depends on whats going on if you get out of combat long enough for the trap to light up. It's hit and miss.

Originally Posted by Dis

Not going to get into symantics with you, but a good hunter will keep a warrior at bay even with intercept/hamstring/int shout. Not to mention certain hunter builds can offset a fury warrior imp intercept. (which is a certain warrior build)

I've often thought of trying the scatter/intimidation build, along with a boar for maximum stuns. Should be interesting.

Completely useless for raiding though, and I just pvp for fun so /shrug. I'd love to hear what hunter builds you think offset a 15s cooldown intercept.

[FuckYou]

Sounds familiar. If I get hamstrung, it's gg. I have to kite perfectly in low lag and have my trap in the right spot to suck up the intercept. You have to mash intercept while pointing your character in my general direction while holding "forward". These are not equal-skill situations.

once again you play up the oh-so-hard hunter angle while downplaying the warrior side.

first off, you have to wait up to 30 seconds for intercept. second, you have to have the rage. third, as has already been mentioned, wingclip snares more than hamstring, so you can run away. fourth, there is a "dead zone" that is too far to melee your opponent yet too close to range/intercept. fifth, the whole time a fucking pet can be beating on us. sixth, unless jesus smiles on us we're not going to one or even two shot you when we do catch you, meaning the whole cycle begins anew.

your post are absurd.

[Bizanich]

Originally Posted by Makata

You sure? It sure doesn't put me in combat when I click attack and rogues can certainly stealth when my bat is on his way ..

You didn't know this?

Yeah, major pain in the ass. Soon as I see a Hunter at range I know I'm going to have to intercept, at which point he either FD/traps or scattershots me and continues laying in the damage.

Oh, and can't forget concussion shot. I love that shit.

[chaos]

Originally Posted by Cad

Sounds familiar. If I get hamstrung, it's gg. I have to kite perfectly in low lag and have my trap in the right spot to suck up the intercept. You have to mash intercept while pointing your character in my general direction while holding "forward". These are not equal-skill situations.

Put scatter and freezing traps back on separate diminishing returns sections, and I won't complain about intercept because I'll be able to handle it. The thing about kiting classes against melee is either you win flawlessly (like a mage vs. warrior, they can handle everything you can throw at them) or you lose like a complete noob (mage who burned blink at the wrong time). There's a very fine line between the kiting class becoming God and the kiting class being a waste of space. It can easily go the wrong way and hunters become unkillable - thats not what I want. If I had some way to get hamstring off of me that didn't involve a 5 minute cooldown, the fight would be crazy and actual kiting. As it is it's "can I trap him through the intercept, then kill him before intercept is up again? if so, win, if not, lose." period.

I dont think anyone really cares if you complain about intercept, because you're bad at this game. If you can't beat an equal geared warrior most of the time, then you are just bad. Nothing that practice won't fix. But turning hunters into gods (moreso than now) probably isn't the answer. Just a hunch. Warriors have one effective snare (a second with talents costing the same rage and being far less effective) and intercept every 30 seconds. That's it. You make it sound as if warriors have a slew of snares/intercepts available to them, and it isn't true.

More to the point of the thread, protection should get vitality, it should be high tier, and it should be 10% for 5 points. The new shield slam changes are nice since they buffed them. I'd like to see some form of Shield Discipline come back, that talent was a good protection talent, right now we have a lot of trash. Imp Shield Wall should separate the timer and bring it down to 15-20 minute reuse, that would make the talent worth getting.