1.11 PTR Patch Notes

[Samus Aran]

Originally Posted by Makata

Where's the hunter bow/gun? Where's the rogue sword? Where's the 1h mace/axe for pal/shm? There are precisely 3 weapons you can get from BGs worth a shit .. a rogue dagger, a war/pal/shm 2h, and a caster staff. Sword rogues get NOTHING. Hunters get NOTHING (unless you actually want to call a BSH clone worthwhile). 1h/shield or dw war/shm/pal get NOTHING. Fuck .. even the caster staff isn't that awesome. It's biggest attraction is crit and stamina. Pretty mediocre for priests, druids, and warlocks.

For being in an "uber pvp guild" you sure don't know jack shit about the rewards. Caster 1her out of AB as well.

edit. and the mindfang/tome of shadow force is very good for a warlock, as is the ironbark staff

[Tuco]

1. Interserver BGs.
2. Interfaction BGs.
3. Ladder based on win/loss ratio that determines rewards and who you're placed with in a BG .

Thankyou.

[Torrid]

Originally Posted by Sancus

Please explain where our mythical burst dps is? Our dps is not higher than hunters or rogues before we run out of mana. If you're saying AOE burst dps, sure, but AOE is a gimmick, it is not generally useful.

AoE is a class defining ability and the reason (other than handing out water) you don't replace every mage with a hunter or rogue.

You seem to think the only content in the game is the content you raid. I use AoE spells all the time outside of raid instances. I solo AoEd to level up (as a fire mage at that), I AoE to farm gold, I AoE in PvP a ton, I AoE in 5 man groups, I AoE every third pull in ZG.

Originally Posted by Sancus

That's fine, and I agree with you, spirit is a wasted stat on these sets. But I frankly don't care that much about scrub gear for scrub guilds and players. If I was the itemization designer, I would care, but I'm not, so what the fuck ever, this is not my problem.

If you had paid attention, you would have noticed the original complaint was about spirit on ZG rewards/pre-BWL gear.

Originally Posted by Sancus

If you really care about optimizing yourself for about 2% of the gameplay out of 2 major raid instances, be my guest. I will continue to express my desire for gear useful in the other 98% of raids

You're the one asking to be "optimized" for the FEW encounters in the game that mages run out of mana on, at the cost of doing less damage to EVERYTHING else.

Originally Posted by Sancus

Regardless, Mages are 98% single target dps with 2% aoe

Not in the content you choose to not partake in.

Originally Posted by Sancus

Those people can get the PvP gear and use it in PvP. That's what it's for, after all, and the new upgraded stuff is better than Netherwind for PvP stat for stat. This is not, in any way, shape, or form, a sensible argument that PvE gear should be well-designed for PvP.

PvP rewards were dog shit until 1.11. Further, the epic rewards are rank 12+. Also, my PvP argument was one bullet point of several. Actually netherwind is rather good for PvP, the complaint was the shitton of spirit on pre-bwl mage gear.

Originally Posted by Sancus

It should not be, and will never be, and wishing for it to be is just being retarded because you gear to beat the hardest challenges where you obtain that gear. No sane raider wants their gear to be great for PvP. They want it to be great for PvE, and if it happens to be good for PvP(as all our gear is), then that's pretty cool, but not the point. Talk to tanks or healers, who gear up with gear that they practically can't use at all in PvP. We have a pretty sweet deal being single purpose, and whining about it is fucking stupid.

I don't see rogues, hunters, or warlocks switching out their gear to PvP. Nor do they have to worry about getting insta-killed by a hunter with a green weapon.

Originally Posted by Sancus

Finally, this seals my utter bafflement. Why the fuck do you care about AOE so much and think our general-use sets should gear directly for it and nothing else when you only care about two dungeons where there are only two aoe situations, both easy, in the entire fucking instances? Oh gee, I forgot about Onyxia whelps, easily taken care of by a single mage in greens, CLEARLY MAGE GEAR SHOULD BE FOR AOE BURST.

Again, that was one of several reasons to lighten up on the spirit. Not JUST AoEing. Further, YOU are suggesting we should load up on spirit for a select few encounters in the game.

[theawddone]

Anyone been onto test server yet and seen what you gain from being exalted with AD?

[chaos]

Originally Posted by Tuco

1. Interserver BGs.
2. Interfaction BGs.
3. Ladder based on win/loss ratio that determines rewards and who you're placed with in a BG .

Thankyou.

In the context of this game how the hell are you supposed to explain interfaction BGs?

[Moontayle]

Originally Posted by chaos

In the context of this game how the hell are you supposed to explain interfaction BGs?

Psssshhh. Like there's an actual war going on.

[chaos]

so... even if that were true, it translates to same faction PVP how? There are some guys i'd like to kill irl on the horde side sure, but it's an uneeded change, Once you ahve your cross faction BGs and an actual ranking system, you have on demand PVP that is actually worth a shit. Fucking up the concept behind this entire series of games for... idk a few different BG encounters... doesn't really seem worth it.

[Northerner]

You want an explanation? Hell man, that's easy. Wargames! Interfaction BGs that are actually training grounds for the upcoming war against the space pirates or whatever. It isn't like the present ones give the illusion of real conflict anyhow and besides, the present trend is towards cooperation between factions.

In the end though, write up whatever explanation tickles your fancy. The storyline and lore is there to facilitate fun and should never get in the way of it.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by zdonovan

For being in an "uber pvp guild" you sure don't know jack shit about the rewards. Caster 1her out of AB as well.

So you're somehow gonna be using the 2h and the 1h from AB at the same time? Oh-fucking-kay .. you get a choice of caster items from AB. Whoop de fucking do. It's still ilvl 65 and there exists far better in BWL.

[DJk_zero]

Imagine that, epics that require 40 people being better then epics requiring you to do nothing but play 18 hours a day steamrolling newbies.

OH THE HORROR

[Moontayle]

Meh. The Rep items are a different ballgame than the Rank items. Speaking as someone who's highest rank will probably cap out at 10 (though I plan on making a good effort towards 11), those items are decent enough even if they don't compare to items out of MC and especially BWL.

You can be a trained monkey and get the rep items with enough time on your plate. Hell, even if you only manage to get 50 rep an hour by getting 3-timed by Steamroll groups, it's entirely possible to reach Exalted. You'll want to cut your eyes out with a rusty shiv by the time it's done but it's possible. And you don't need to ruin your life to get there.

So basically, the Rank items should be the ones that truly matter in the course of things for PvP. Those require a heck of a lot more commitment and for HWL/GM usually you'll get less than a couple dozen per faction, per year. Joe Schmoe could spend his entire PvP life at Rank 5 and reap the rewards from Exalted WSG. Rep items should be somewhat lacking, though still viable for those of us with lives to live.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by DJk_zero

Imagine that, epics that require 40 people being better then epics requiring you to do nothing but play 18 hours a day steamrolling newbies.

OH THE HORROR

You know, you have a semi-valid point. However here's the problem .. we can't get better. We can't get better weapons, we can't get better armor, we can't get better anything. Pre-1.11 12/13 armor is really not that great, and r14 weapons don't really count as most people who hit 14 go fairly casual w/ pvp, do other things, etc, whereas you get to use that loot for the next big step.

It would be fine if the stuff was ilvl65 and there there was some way to then get the ilvl72 upgrade, then the ilvl80 one. But there isn't. All we have to work with is a decent 6 piece set that the vast majority of people don't have, and a couple mediocre odds and ends. If you are 3x exalted rank 11 .. your gear is pretty much crap.

That is why these things need an upgrade. Blizzard has shown no intention of making pvp rep rewards anything but a grind so putting ilvl 80 epics there would be stupid, but at the same time if we don't get those items, we are totally fucking outclassed by the pve'ers.

The fact you spend a couple hours a week in a room with 39 other people doesn't automatically give you the right to dominate me in gear. I easily put in more time and we have just as much teamwork and cooperation, and there's really no reason whatsoever than ilvl88+ shit shouldn't be available to us in some way.

[Kolle]

yeah getting lots of pve epics is really hard, hardly anyone has been able to do it

[theawddone]

I don't see how it's fair to invest your time once and continually get your armor upgraded, even if you don't play. It'd be like them upgrading your tier1 armor to tier2 every once and awhile, or upgrading the stats, because you already "put the time investment" to get the items.

Originally Posted by Kolle

yeah getting lots of pve epics is really hard, hardly anyone has been able to do it

FYI: not sure what server you're on, but HWL has never meant skill, ever.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Kolle

yeah getting lots of pve epics is really hard, hardly anyone has been able to do it

Okay cool, nice to see you admit it at least. To stay competative in pvp, in your opinion, I should have to pve just as much as people who only pve. Furthermore, since the loot is better, I won't actually even need any of the pvp loots and I should just go for HWL for shits n giggles. You can't even just put forth a little time either. We can do MC pretty well, we've killed Rags a bunch, but it just doesn't compare to the guilds blasting through AQ40.

Originally Posted by theawddone

I don't see how it's fair to invest your time once and continually get your armor upgraded, even if you don't play. It'd be like them upgrading your tier1 armor to tier2 every once and awhile, or upgrading the stats, because you already "put the time investment" to get the items.

Well first of all, when you got your tier 1 all that was required was you clear MC. The difficulty of mc bosses doesn't change. It actually gets easier over time as knowledge and gear increase. But getting rank 14 doesn't ever get easier. They have taken steps to make the grind itself easier but the time you choose to do it is irrelevant.

And besides, we get the point. For some reason I guess you'd be jealous if pvp'ers (you know, all like 1% on the server who have hit rank 12+ compared to 10%+ who has killed rags) got free upgrades. Fine. But there is no alternative. This isn't us saying "we refuse to do BWL. We want our MC gear upgraded to BWL quality so we don't have to do it" .. this is us saying "There is no fucking BWL for us to go to, yet we have to fight players with the equivalent difficulty of BWL."

There is no way for us to progress loot wise. Look, you can't do AQ40 and rank 14. You just can't. PvE loot gets better over time by means of new content with upgrades. But there has not been a pvp upgrade since the fucking rank rewards were put in the game. We have no way to earn our upgrades. What about that do you not understand? Show me a way to earn my new pvp set.