1.11 PTR Patch Notes

[Plaeroma]

Originally Posted by Shaod

THAT SAID

Anyone comparing the amount of effort it takes to raid with the amount of effort it takes to get rank 14 is just wrong. I dont care how liberal you are or how many manhours (lol?) you work it out to be, no raid content exists in WoW, and no raid content I've ever done since the start of EQ upto GoD requires anywhere close to the grind that rank14s go through.

QFT. People really need to understand this. I honestly feel sorry for the people who think they can casually rank up to any worthwhile gear.

[Bizanich]

Originally Posted by Plaeroma

QFT. People really need to understand this. I honestly feel sorry for the people who think they can casually rank up to any worthwhile gear.

They don't want to understand it, they view it as a crime for the PvP progression to even exist.

[Scaffa]

It still kills me that they are on a pve server though.

rofl

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Scaffa

I feel sorry for you Makata. If you have to PvP that much, i'm sure you're not working to agreed caps per week....meaning half those "man hours" invested could've been avoided after a 30 minute conversation.

Oh we have caps. And in my bracket it still takes a whole lot of time. I could potentially get all my honor on Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon but it can be risky .. get involved in a B team and honor doesn't always flow in. I'll still be playing Monday even though I've been grinding it pretty hard this week.

Originally Posted by DiscW

The honor system is fucked in so many ways theres no possible way to have balanced rewards. By adding these items in you either screw over old gms by forcing them to do the entire grind again, or just give them free stuff for doing nothing. Lose/Lose.

Why is upgrading their items bad? They already did the work for them. Remember when t2 was upgraded? Should you have had to re-acquire the items or should they have just boosted what you had? Please, tell me. What could possibly be the harm of allowing someone .. who has devoted months and months and months of their life to hitting r14 .. to get items that are actually, I don't know, useful? The HWL staff is barely better than the AB one, not gigantically better than *random blue/epic mainhand* + AV offhand, etc. Honestly the only shining beacons of awesomeness at r14 atm are daggers and swords for rogues as they're really slow and 2h's for warriors.

Originally Posted by Sabyn

Makata: fuck Blackrock PvP.

Has a horde guild on Aggramar even killed nef?

Don't think so but I really don't keep up on the pve stuff. I know we haven't, yet we have to fight against 812,000 alliance who have and people bitch that we actually want gear to compare.

[ex-genj]

since no else mentioned it new warsong exalted rewards:

http://static.curse-gaming.com/nimag...ng_rewards.jpg

http://static.curse-gaming.com/nimag...eggings4az.jpg

gee whats wrong with this picture?

[Sabyn]

Originally Posted by Makata

Don't think so but I really don't keep up on the pve stuff. I know we haven't, yet we have to fight against 812,000 alliance who have and people bitch that we actually want gear to compare.

Then why not do PvE for gear then, since you keep bitching about doing pvp for it. And at least you guys don't have to worry about any real competition in the BGs. I don't think there is any deceent alliance group that pvps (decent as in they are a consistent pvp group with any sort of decent gear).

[Digo]

Just glancing at those numbers, they look to be about ilvl 66 or so -- the rough equivalent of tier 1 loot in MC. So anyone who can spend the time to grind to exalted in WSG can get some tier 1 equivalent gear, narrowing (but far from closing) the massive gap between raiders and non-raiders in PVP. Doesn't seem game breaking to me.

ed: oh duh, no warrior-specific legs

[Sancus]

Remember when t2 was upgraded?

T2 was never upgraded, y'know, just the ridiculously bad design was changed. PvP armor has had very good(to a disgusting level, actually, *on some pieces*) min/maxed design from day 1. The changes actually fix some of the broken rule-breaking items, though, which is interesting.

Originally Posted by Torrid

FUCK SPIRIT. I DON'T WANT SPIRIT BLIZZARD. I DON'T WANT IT FOR PVE OR PVP.

I will never understand this blatant idiocy. Why, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, do people keep saying this pure bullshit? You DO WANT SPIRIT FOR FUCK'S SAKES. Unless you're playing ezmode alliance, in which case I understand to some extent, even though you're still wrong,(but judgement of wisdom needs to be removed completely because it's retarded) you need that fucking mana regen for all the hard encounters in the game desperately. Even if you are playing Alliance, unless you want to rely on pots for half the encounters in the game, it's still more useful than 1/3 or less its amount in +dmg. Twin Emps(less so now, but when learning it), C'thun, even Ouro to an extent? There's a *reason* that raiding mages spec into Arcane and it's not for fucking PoM, it's for Clearcast and Arcane Meditation, because without those two things you will suffer a lot of mana problems.

And this also begs the question, WHY THE FUCK DO YOU HATE SPIRIT BUT LOVE INTELLECT? On every single raid fight in the game. Every. Single. Fucking. Raid. Fight. In. The. Goddamn. Game, Spirit provides *more mana per point* than Intellect does for a mage. There's a reason that we get Evocation and Mage Armor and both depend directly on Spirit. If we had no spirit, I bet you'd be surprised when your Evocation fills up 1/3 of your fucking mana pool because you have tons of utterly useless Int.

The goddamn Frostfire stats are a huge amount of intellect, a slightly lesser amount of Stamina, and about 60 spirit. What the fuck do you think you're going to get, by the itemization formula, for removing that spirit? 20 damage if you're lucky. That's not more useful, because all those hard fights where your damage actually counts, you're going to have much less, because the second you go oom you need spirit and your +dmg and Int are meaningless.

If anything, there is a strong argument here to remove a *lot* of the intellect on the set and split it between more +dmg and Spirit(and make sure to have at least 1%(but not 2%) crit if the item's damage goes above 30 or so), because those two stats are much more significant than intellect.

But I will never understand this ridiculous, stupid, hatred that some Mages seem to have for Spirit. Because mathematically, it is the best stat for damage after +dmg, %hit, and %crit, and bottom line is that you can't spike those things to the exception of everything else because it costs more for every point you add.

Stop fucking hating on Spirit when you don't even understand how the game works. You should be hating on the worthless Intellect we get. And TBH, if you want to carry your retarded theory of mage itemization through, just gear non-set. Then you can wear such garbage as Boots of Epiphany and be 15th on damage on every boss encounter over 10 minutes.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Sancus

T2 was never upgraded, y'know, just the ridiculously bad design was changed. PvP armor has had perfectly(to a disgusting level, actually) min/maxed design from day 1. The changes actually fix some of the broken rule-breaking items, though, which is interesting.

Yeah thats why the rogue epic pvp pants were worse than fucking shadowcraft.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Sabyn

Then why not do PvE for gear then, since you keep bitching about doing pvp for it. And at least you guys don't have to worry about any real competition in the BGs. I don't think there is any deceent alliance group that pvps (decent as in they are a consistent pvp group with any sort of decent gear).

Because I find pve to be the most god awful boring experience in this game. it's redundant, boring, horribly time consuming (insofar as having to commit 5+ hours at once; I usually pvp for more than that anyway but being able to quit anytime is nice), etc. And you know, I DO pve. I'm 3/8 GS (though I don't even use 1 of them) with a couple other things here and there. I simply cannot express how much I loathe MC. If pvp didn't have any rewards, I'd still do some of it just for fun. If MC didn't have rewards, you can bet your ass I wouldn't go just for "the challenge."

[Sabyn]

Originally Posted by Makata

Because I find pve to be the most god awful boring experience in this game. it's redundant, boring, horribly time consuming (insofar as having to commit 5+ hours at once; I usually pvp for more than that anyway but being able to quit anytime is nice), etc. And you know, I DO pve. I'm 3/8 GS (though I don't even use 1 of them) with a couple other things here and there. I simply cannot express how much I loathe MC. If pvp didn't have any rewards, I'd still do some of it just for fun. If MC didn't have rewards, you can bet your ass I wouldn't go just for "the challenge."

Do you guys even have a pvp challenege? Honest question.

[Zierain]

So... in those WSG rewards.. why the hell didnt they seperate Paladin/Warrior legs for the alliance?

I wont even bother touching the alliance plate legs, but the horde plate ones would be friggin godly.

Thats retarded =/

[Sancus]

Originally Posted by Mist-Warsong

Yeah thats why the rogue epic pvp pants were worse than fucking shadowcraft.

OK, there are always exceptions. Let me edit that "perfect" to "very good" :P Still though, they could have corrected such stupidity where it existed, like they did with Tier 2, instead they went for a straight-up stat increase.

[Cadrid]

Originally Posted by Makata

Because I find pve to be the most god awful boring experience in this game. it's redundant, boring, horribly time consuming (insofar as having to commit 5+ hours at once; I usually pvp for more than that anyway but being able to quit anytime is nice), etc. And you know, I DO pve. I'm 3/8 GS (though I don't even use 1 of them) with a couple other things here and there. I simply cannot express how much I loathe MC. If pvp didn't have any rewards, I'd still do some of it just for fun. If MC didn't have rewards, you can bet your ass I wouldn't go just for "the challenge."

That's funny. I find PvPing to be redundant (get flag, cap flag, rinse, repeat), boring (how fun can it be to roll over PUGs time after time? Or get zero resistance?), oftentimes frustrating (if you're playing against an honor-farm group), far more time consuming (you can do MC in 3 hours after you have the encounters down; your time spent in BGs can vary depending upon how many others are doing the grind that day/week), and the rewards are pure shit for anyone of any level up until you start getting the epics.

On another note, MC is an incredibly easy instance to learn; all the shit the bosses do is either to hurt you more or keep you from harming them. Until Ragnaros it's the same fight over and over again with a slightly different flavor.

When you're learning Razorgore/Vaelestrasz you should come back and let us know how "boring and repetitive and easy" PvE Raid content is.

[Cybsled]

Technically T2 was nerfed, then improved. They gutted the stats shortly after they removed them from the MC loot pools, then they improved them slightly after BWL was out for awhile...but they were still crappier then unnerfed T2.