Have you ever bought in-game currency from the MMO secondary market?

[frott]

Because the terms of service are that annoying shit I skip without reading?
Fuck a terms of service.

Nobody uses the terms "fun" when describing the incalculably unnecessary act of farming for cash to play the real game. I am assuming "having fun all the time" wasn't written in the TOS, huh? Oh, wait, that's covered by the "Gameplay experience may change" non-info.

Spoiler: that shit didn't exist in EQ, which is why people who bought gold / items then were fucking retarded. It has nothing to do with "time required to be uber" it has everything to do with being retarded. Again we refer to the "i can spend X hours having no fun in some stupid game mechanic closed feedback loop, or spend X/20 hours at my job to accomplish the same thing" idea.

I don't recall needing any cash in EQ, ever.

[Goanad]

Originally Posted by Makata

You ignorant fucking cuntswab. I put in 3x the time you do in your fucking raids grinding out honor at least. You think I like running the exact same game every time? I like the overall concept of pvp and when we're absolutely raping face it's fun, but the grind is boring as all hell but I have to do it to get the honor to get the rank. Don't for a fucking second think I have any pity that you have to farm gold to pay for repairs.

And you're paid in game, too. What you think those epics your'e sporting are? Money .. epics .. they're the same thing. The goal at the end of the race you want.

If I only had 4 hours a day to play, I wouldn't expect to ever see MC, BWL, AQ20/40, ZG or anyplace else. Neither should you. Except .. you do.

Look .. if Blizzard had intended for you to get those spells trivially, don't you think they'd have not made them cost anything? Would repairs be in the game? Would content be focused around titans, etc? The fact you pay a subsciption fee doesn't mean you should get whatever you want, when you want, without having to put up with any crap. If that were the case, I'd have had my mom write my school a check for 4 years tuition and they could just hand me a diploma and save us both alot of time.

Your subscription fee supports the servers, testers, developers, GMs, etc. It goes to help start future content. It isn't them charging you for epics. It is you paying for the ability to play the game. At that point, you now pay to raid. Those of you in your tier 2 crap .. you've got far better gear than me, and it seems only logical you have to pay a bigger price either in time, gold, or both because of it. Don't tell me you raid for anything besides the e-peen in some form because you'd be lying. If your character didn't have any stats whatsoever, just 1 number, and each upgrade you get had a higher number .. no one would play this game. You play it because you like the big hp, the huge crits, the massive dodge, major AP .. etc. If that wasn't the case, they wouldn't need to put any loot in the game and just make all boss fights equally hard, just different.

You want those big fancy numbers at no price. That's the problem. I'd honestly pay 1kg (which I didn't have to buy to obtain!!) to ban every last one of you who bought gold. You'd piss and whine then move on, then the only people who'd be left are the ones who actually earned their stuff instead of having Xiaoxiao give it to them in exchange for rice for a week.

Whatever. Alot of blah blah covering the fact you like YOUR IRL advantage that translates itself into an ingame edge but your selective condemnation of others as not being worthy to see what the fuck ever you want to name in a game because their IRL advantage is different, frankly makes you a cunt. I think your mom should kick your sorry ass out of the basement, then no "fill in the blank uber nolife time sink spot" for you.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Ahkwell

You would expect Blizzard to be the arbiter of how to play in that they did create and host the game. They made no ability to buy gold with cash, therefore they don't expect you should be able to do so. In fact, they're on record against it. If you can't abide by your word when agreeing to the terms of service, why should anyone take your word about anything?

Thats your interpretation, and where have the gone on record against buying gold? When have you ever seen an account being banned because a person bought gold?? Please dont say they banned gold farmers, thats how they show it, because then you are deluding yourself, or your just full of shit.

[Szlia]

In my opinion, if you have to buy gold for items or repairs it is really a sign that you don't have enough time to play the game like it should be played.

Actually, when I played WoW and was on the verge of buying gold, I had all the time in the world to farm it myself, but I would eat glass while vigorously throw handfull of sand in my eyes before spending time farming gold for a ill designed game mechanic.

[Ahkwell]

It really is kinda funny to watch the ex-ubers* who are now casual*, but who still want to raid and do their other "fun" stuff attempt to justify breaking their word and dismissing parts of the game they don't want to do any longer. How long did you sit in lower guk at level 50 killing frenzys? magi? lords? How's that different from a few hours here or there in Azshera/Tyr's hand/silithus? Oh, right, you don't want to spend 50-60 hours a week in a game any more. You've grown up and have other responsibilities. Right. Welcome to casual-land. You never needed money in EQ, because you were constantly farming it whether you realized it or not. Plus, obviously, the setbacks were experience, not gold. Same thing really, the setback = time.

*ubers = people who in EQ were in their local "server first" guild; *casual = people who played a couple hours here, but have more pressing things to do outside the game.

No disrespect intended, but dang, it sucks to grow up, doesn't it?





Which brings up another question, If raiding is all you want to do, WHY is that all you want to do? It can't really be the challenge any more (other than new content). You've got everything on farm status. To improve your character? Isn't that what you're buying gold for? You buy gold to raid to improve your character via purple gear (for you or guildies), why not just buy characters with purples once you've experienced all the different fights? Because it's not YOUR character? Neither's the gold you're spending. *shrug*.

[frott]

Gold farmers? No. Exploiters? Yes.

And

If I only had 4 hours a day to play, I wouldn't expect to ever see MC, BWL, AQ20/40, ZG or anyplace else. Neither should you. Except .. you do."

I play far less than 4 hours a day and get by just fine in all of those dungeons. Oh, except for the respeccing and repair costs. Join the conversation, Makata.

I still have seen zero explanation from you as to how they can accomodate two or three various playstyles in the game yet charge money to swap between them. Raiding, PVE, PVP. I'll happily pay $$$$$$$$ because where I work doesn't give me checks, they give me sacks with dollarsigns written on it and I enjoy WoW that much.

What do those costs have to do with skill, effort, "farming" or "intention?" except that they require no skill and little effort but lots of farming because it is blizzard's intention to D R A G O U T my subscription time by having me farm? Would anyone even notice, besides farmers and all of the ABOUT FUCKING TIME gamers elated beyond belief that the game was losing two of the most ridiculous concepts in the game, if tomorrow all of the respeccing costs were free and repairs could be done by tailors/leatherworkers/smiths ?

[frott]

Originally Posted by Ahkwell

It really is kinda funny to watch the ex-ubers* who are now casual*, but who still want to raid and do their other "fun" stuff attempt to justify breaking their word and dismissing parts of the game they don't want to do any longer. How long did you sit in lower guk at level 50 killing frenzys? magi? lords? How's that different from a few hours here or there in Azshera/Tyr's hand/silithus? Oh, right, you don't want to spend 50-60 hours a week in a game any more. You've grown up and have other responsibilities. Right. Welcome to casual-land. You never needed money in EQ, because you were constantly farming it whether you realized it or not. Plus, obviously, the setbacks were experience, not gold. Same thing really, the setback = time.

*ubers = people who in EQ were in their local "server first" guild; *casual = people who played a couple hours here, but have more pressing things to do outside the game.

No disrespect intended, but dang, it sucks to grow up, doesn't it?

You didn't need money in EQ for anything. This isn't figurative, it isn't waxing poetic because us ubers got fat loots from raiding.

Are you fucking dense? There was nothing essential to spend money on. If there was, I guess I missed it since, you know, me being broke had absolutely no impact on my gameplay ever.

In WoW if all your armor turns red and you have 0 gold, guess what, time to start killing shit when naked.

I play WoW *MORE* than I played EQ, and it has this extra cost to do things that EQ didn't. Fuck off already, as you've lost any sense of validity by generalizing beyond the point of utility?

Which brings up another question, If raiding is all you want to do, WHY is that all you want to do? It can't really be the challenge any more (other than new content). You've got everything on farm status. To improve your character? Isn't that what you're buying gold for? You buy gold to raid to improve your character via purple gear (for you or guildies), why not just buy characters with purples once you've experienced all the different fights? Because it's not YOUR character? Neither's the gold you're spending. *shrug*.

What purple gear are you talking about? I think the rest of the folks in this thread are referring to their purple gear breaking and making it so they can't play the game. Or wanting to PVP in Spec_1 and then when it is time to raid having the luxury of swapping to Spec_2.

The biggest endgame "purchase items for progression" that is available is the cenarion circle faction, and you still need to spend a load of time doing the missions after that to get a few items. I farmed texts (with a fucking shadow priest) until the point where it would be more time efficient to just purchase gold to get the rest of the texts, because, you know killing the same 6 mobs over and over again is such an fun task that I should have done it for 300 more hours. I conversely never bothered paying for ZG turnins. Why? Because ZG faction was plentiful enough and the content was engaging enough that I never felt the need to.

I mean yeah when's the first time you saw someone *gasp* paying for two accounts to speed up their farming. It is the same fuckin' thing, hommie.

[Ahkwell]

Originally Posted by Dis

Thats your interpretation, and where have the gone on record against buying gold? When have you ever seen an account being banned because a person bought gold?? Please dont say they banned gold farmers, thats how they show it, because then you are deluding yourself, or your just full of shit.

That's not my interpretation at all. I looked at the "Selling of items" part of the "Terms of Use" and if they're against SELLING items outside WoW, it'd stand to reason that they MUST be against BUYING items outside WoW, seeing how it's the same transaction. Just because they've never made a move to ban buyers (yet), doesn't mean they can't or won't. You're still breaking the TOU. Section 8 says "Blizzard Entertainment does not recognize any property claims outside of World of Warcraft or the purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything related to World of Warcraft. Accordingly, you may not sell items for "real" money or exchange items outside of World of Warcraft."

To me, that says it's against the rules. The fact you don't like the rule, nor the farming doesn't really enter the picture. *shrug*.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Ahkwell

It really is kinda funny to watch the ex-ubers* who are now casual*, but who still want to raid and do their other "fun" stuff attempt to justify breaking their word and dismissing parts of the game they don't want to do any longer. How long did you sit in lower guk at level 50 killing frenzys? magi? lords? How's that different from a few hours here or there in Azshera/Tyr's hand/silithus? Oh, right, you don't want to spend 50-60 hours a week in a game any more. You've grown up and have other responsibilities. Right. Welcome to casual-land. You never needed money in EQ, because you were constantly farming it whether you realized it or not. Plus, obviously, the setbacks were experience, not gold. Same thing really, the setback = time.

*ubers = people who in EQ were in their local "server first" guild; *casual = people who played a couple hours here, but have more pressing things to do outside the game.

No disrespect intended, but dang, it sucks to grow up, doesn't it?





Which brings up another question, If raiding is all you want to do, WHY is that all you want to do? It can't really be the challenge any more (other than new content). You've got everything on farm status. To improve your character? Isn't that what you're buying gold for? You buy gold to raid to improve your character via purple gear (for you or guildies), why not just buy characters with purples once you've experienced all the different fights? Because it's not YOUR character? Neither's the gold you're spending. *shrug*.

First off, how the hell do you even know if anyone of us farmed Guk or whatever EQ example you try to throw out at us?

Secondly when did raiding in EQ require me to spend X farming plat?

Lastly, are you trying to compare maintain equipment already earned (Hi repair costs), to grinding AAs which improved my character?


Here is where you are a complete dumbass, you cant compare EQ to WoW because they are NOT THE SAME FUCKING GAME. XP Penalty required me to spend MAYBE 14 minutes in Plane of Earth A in order to regain my experience lost in a raid from dieing.

Compare that to 2 hours of farming any of your above examples WHILE TRYING TO COMPETE WITH FUCKING CHINESE GOLD FARMERS. Your post can suck my dick, come up with something new and innovating that we havent ALREADY fucking discussed 100 times in this thread.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Ahkwell

That's not my interpretation at all. I looked at the "Selling of items" part of the "Terms of Use" and if they're against SELLING items outside WoW, it'd stand to reason that they MUST be against BUYING items outside WoW, seeing how it's the same transaction. Just because they've never made a move to ban buyers (yet), doesn't mean they can't or won't. You're still breaking the TOU. Section 8 says "Blizzard Entertainment does not recognize any property claims outside of World of Warcraft or the purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything related to World of Warcraft. Accordingly, you may not sell items for "real" money or exchange items outside of World of Warcraft."

To me, that says it's against the rules. The fact you don't like the rule, nor the farming doesn't really enter the picture. *shrug*.

Key word: "To me"

Buy a clue, that is called interpretation. When Blizzard starts banning accounts that buy gold then I will say "gee you were right".

[Samus Aran]

Originally Posted by Ahkwell

You would expect Blizzard to be the arbiter of how to play in that they did create and host the game. They made no ability to buy gold with cash, therefore they don't expect you should be able to do so. In fact, they're on record against it. If you can't abide by your word when agreeing to the terms of service, why should anyone take your word about anything?

... and what if they don't enforce the rules? What if you have hard evidence that almost their entire stance on gold farming is one that benefits them financially?

[Hankamer]

Anyone remember the shark exploit from EQ- where you killed some random level 10 shark and they were dropping millions and millions of copper each kill?

I had a former guildmate who farmed that exploit and then cleverly avoided the rollback by leaving about 100,000,000 plat on a corpse in the Arena. He supported himself for a while on his plat sales - thourougly ruined the Xev economy in the meantime.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Hankamer

Anyone remember the shark exploit from EQ- where you killed some random level 10 shark and they were dropping millions and millions of copper each kill?

I had a former guildmate who farmed that exploit and then cleverly avoided the rollback by leaving about 100,000,000 plat on a corpse in the Arena. He supported himself for a while on his plat sales - thourougly ruined the Xev economy in the meantime.

We are not talking about exploiting, post on the correct thread or create a new one. Thanks.

[Szlia]

To answer Ahkwell:

- How long did you sit in lower guk at level 50 killing frenzys? magi? lords? How's that different from a few hours here or there in Azshera/Tyr's hand/silithus?
- Not long at all because I started in Kunark. I spent easily several hundreds of hours camping things like Raster, Kwinn The Outlander, Burynai Burrowers, etc. I did that because I had goals (completing quests) that I feel were accomplishements. Farming gold in WoW is not a goal I set to myself, it's a chore set upon me by the devs in the name of sinking money I don't have.

- Oh, right, you don't want to spend 50-60 hours a week in a game any more. You've grown up and have other responsibilities. Right. Welcome to casual-land.
- When I played WoW I had the same quantity of time to spend than when I played EQ. I still have a lot of free time today, but no longer during the US prime time and that's why I stoped playing.

- You never needed money in EQ, because you were constantly farming it whether you realized it or not.
- I always have been stupidly poor in EQ because I played a monk and never cared to try and become rich as it felt completely pointless to me.

- Plus, obviously, the setbacks were experience, not gold. Same thing really, the setback = time.
- Experience loss was a non-issue in EQ since late Kunark, unless you were a sociopath.

- If raiding is all you want to do, WHY is that all you want to do? It can't really be the challenge any more (other than new content). You've got everything on farm status.
- First we raid for the thrill of discovering, figuring out and beating encounters as a team. Then we raid to be well prepared for the next batch of raid content. It's not fun and we sometime even put it on hold if we decide the benefit/boredom ratio is too low.

- You buy gold to raid to improve your character via purple gear (for you or guildies), why not just buy characters with purples once you've experienced all the different fights? Because it's not YOUR character? Neither's the gold you're spending. *shrug*.
- I understand why you would think that since you did not see the difference between the tedium of camping rare drops and the one of farming money. I would not buy a character with better gear than mine to progress (assuming such a character existed and was for sale ) because the pleasure of MMORPG comes for me through progression and achievements, materialized in my character. On the other hand a ill-designed money sink is neighter progression nor achievement.