Have you ever bought in-game currency from the MMO secondary market?

[Samus Aran]

Originally Posted by Malakie Torsade

I'll start by saying I really don't care much if people buy gold. I won't for "moral" reasons, but it's not something I'm really concerned with.

With the above quotes, I'm curious as to where the justifications for spending RL money for in-game perks end. What if they added something to the game you had to "farm" (I'll use AA's just because they are something that most are familiar with) in order for you/your guild to progress, raid-wise? Would you grind these out yourself or would you be inclined to pay someone to do it for you? Would it honestly make a difference that you are actually improving your character as opposed to simply coping with a game mechanic?

I think we have 2 sides of this; those who are paying just because they find farming boring, and those who pay just because they don't want to do/can't do anything outside of raiding.

If they did add AA's (again, just an example) that were needed for raid progression, how many of you would quit due to the added time requirements? How many would have someone else play your character for them so that they could continue to raid? And how many of you would simply allocate more time to playing WoW in order to meet these requirements. Should staying near the top of current raid content require significant time commitment outside of raids? Would these added time requirements be easier to swallow if you got meaningful character improvements from doing them as opposed to just grinding for gold/faction? Where the white women at?

Farming AA's is for progression in a linear style.

Farming gold for repairs is an endless cycle.

I think that may have something to do with it =/

[Hachima]

Originally Posted by Malakie Torsade

I'll start by saying I really don't care much if people buy gold. I won't for "moral" reasons, but it's not something I'm really concerned with.

With the above quotes, I'm curious as to where the justifications for spending RL money for in-game perks end. What if they added something to the game you had to "farm" (I'll use AA's just because they are something that most are familiar with) in order for you/your guild to progress, raid-wise? Would you grind these out yourself or would you be inclined to pay someone to do it for you? Would it honestly make a difference that you are actually improving your character as opposed to simply coping with a game mechanic?

I think we have 2 sides of this; those who are paying just because they find farming boring, and those who pay just because they don't want to do/can't do anything outside of raiding.

If they did add AA's (again, just an example) that were needed for raid progression, how many of you would quit due to the added time requirements? How many would have someone else play your character for them so that they could continue to raid? And how many of you would simply allocate more time to playing WoW in order to meet these requirements. Should staying near the top of current raid content require significant time commitment outside of raids? Would these added time requirements be easier to swallow if you got meaningful character improvements from doing them as opposed to just grinding for gold/faction? Where the white women at?

Well for WoW I guess you could use the example of getting level 70 in order to beat the expansion content. I'd pet a ton of people will take some vacation days and play exptremely hard to try and cap level as soon as possible. It's hard to say what the level curve will be but I'll bet a ton of raiding guilds will have a good force of 70s in 2-3 weeks. Some hardcore people in maybe just 1 week of playing 18+ hours a day.

The thing is the time requirement for this progression is temporary and because you can see the immediate results people will grind it out and get it out of the way.

You could do the same thing with gold. Grind gold like crazy for a week and be done for a long time. The problem is unlike an added requirement like AAs or levels being introduced, gold levels are very different amung players and guilds as a whole aren't likely to take a week off to farm gold because not everyone needs to do it.

If a skilled player bought an account or had someone level them up I wouldn't care. Especially if it was a friend I'd want to be playing with.

If a newb has someone level them/buys an account then it sucks because they probably needed the time to level to learn their character to at least give them the chance to improve their skill and learn t he class.

That's really the only concern I have on the matter.

[Sanchek]

If it were farming AAs, I'd do that myself. I farm faction myself (vs buying gold to buy the faction) already, which is the closest to AAs in WoW.

Improving my character, I'm all for doing myself. Paying a steady maintenance fee just to break even, is stupid. I won't run on that hamster wheel when I don't have to.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Malakie Torsade

If they did add AA's (again, just an example) that were needed for raid progression, how many of you would quit due to the added time requirements? How many would have someone else play your character for them so that they could continue to raid? And how many of you would simply allocate more time to playing WoW in order to meet these requirements. Should staying near the top of current raid content require significant time commitment outside of raids? Would these added time requirements be easier to swallow if you got meaningful character improvements from doing them as opposed to just grinding for gold/faction? Where the white women at?

I'm sure there would be plenty of guilds that would have players, especially MT's and healers but possibly also DPS, who would just share account info if they didn't have enough extracurricular time to grind them out. Of course I imagine account sharing is against the ToS and those people would be OMG FUCKING CHEATERS THEY MIGHT AS WELL JUST BUY A PRE LEVELED AND FULLY AA'ED TOON OFF MYSUPERSALES! Hey, that's another thin line. Where does the madness end?!?! If your guildie boxes you for faction grinding then you have no fucking right to buy those Timbermaw recipes mister!

[leane]

I think part of it stems from things like AAs being advancement of your character, just like leveling up, you get bigger, stronger, better and that tends to bolster you. Just like at the early levels when levels come fast and easy and you immediatly can see yourself getting better theres that thrill.

Gold farming however is something that get you nowhere, sure you could buy better equipment and stuff but why unless it is so severe (lineage 2) that it is a chore in and of itself. I think a big explosion of the gold farming has to do with games like this where the farming is used as the core timesink to slow down advancement. It happened in EQ but I think the market was bigger for buffed out characters than just the plat.

[Fammaden]

What WoW needs at this point is an AA system with XP decay over time so that you have to grind to keep the AA's you already earned even after you have the maximum amount. Couple that with 10% AAXP loss per death and we have a real MMO!

[Dumar]

people say that they're just buying gold for consumables instead of going out and farming for hours.

what if i said that gearing up is tedious, and it's not fun for me. i don't want to do that, either. it's just a game, and i'm supposed to have fun, right?

no one has any right to say that there's any difference between the two, and that's what people don't recognize.

edit: and it'll get to the point where buying a premade character is commonplace as buying gold. you think buying gold for consumables helps the game? wait a few years and see how far this outside market permeates every single mmo game from now on.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Dumar

people say that they're just buying gold for consumables instead of going out and farming for hours.

what if i said that gearing up is tedious, and it's not fun for me. i don't want to do that, either. it's just a game, and i'm supposed to have fun, right?

no one has any right to say that there's any difference between the two, and that's what people don't recognize.

Sure, if you wanted to come on here and say, "LOL GUYZ! I bought my character cuz I don't think leveling and gearing are much fun, and I wanted to skip right to the part I like; farming repair gold to fix me epix!" then you would have every right in the world to that opinion. It is your time and money. Be my guest. It would still not exclude you from being seen as an idiot of much higher proportion than the average repair or consumable gold buyer. Anyone who buys a character is only cheating themselves since the leveling up process in WoW is one of the best parts of the game and easily the best leveling grind in the entire genre to date. (IMO!) You also learn an invaluable amount of information on how your class and its skills function and on how to navigate the game world by leveling up. You cannot compare that to what is needed and gained by farming repair gold. The two exist on different planets, perhaps even different planes of existence entirely.

edit: and it'll get to the point where buying a premade character is commonplace as buying gold. you think buying gold for consumables helps the game? wait a few years and see how far this outside market permeates every single mmo game from now on

Your assessment of the MMO market in "a few years" is happening right fucking now Mr. Magoo, and it has been going strong for years prior. Keep spewing your doomsday rhetoric though, I'm sure you'll be in good company with all the people who think that Hitler is living with Elvis down in Peru. This shit was rampant in EQ and it was not ultimately what killed the game. The only example that people ever seem to be able to give of a game where such activity definitively killed the high end gaming experience for serious players is L2. I don't have first hand knowledge of that game but from the sound of it I am not missing much.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Dumar

people say that they're just buying gold for consumables instead of going out and farming for hours.

what if i said that gearing up is tedious, and it's not fun for me. i don't want to do that, either. it's just a game, and i'm supposed to have fun, right?

no one has any right to say that there's any difference between the two, and that's what people don't recognize.

edit: and it'll get to the point where buying a premade character is commonplace as buying gold. you think buying gold for consumables helps the game? wait a few years and see how far this outside market permeates every single mmo game from now on.

Whats funny is when I TRY to fucking farm gold it is infested with hunters (AND ONLY FUCKING HUNTERS) name Hawkra or Tigercg with pet names like Cat, Bear, etc. And they are there EVERY FUCKING time I get some time to head out to spots to try and farm gold, the same fucking people at the same fucking spots time after time.

You sir are an idiot for comparing people who buy gold for a faulty game mechanic (IE repair costs) vs. people who buy accounts. I am sure Blizzard is quivering in their boots while they stand on nearly a billion dollars a year on subscription revenues. Give me a break.

[Dumar]

what's happening now is probably the tip of the iceberg. i would've never guessed the market would've gotten this bad in EQ days. it'll get worse.

since responding would just be a repeat of what i said earlier, i won't reiterate. i understand where people see the difference, but to me (and many others.. hopefully) you're still breaking the game and saying your version of tedious is the right version, compared to the guy who bought the 60.

blizzard quivering in their boots? what do you mean? i was referring to everyone's gameplay experience, not blizzard's profits. and your example of trying to farm gold yourself is exactly what i mean't.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Dumar

what's happening now is probably the tip of the iceberg. i would've never guessed the market would've gotten this bad in EQ days. it'll get worse.

since responding would just be a repeat of what i said earlier, i won't reiterate. i understand where people see the difference, but to me (and many others.. hopefully) you're still breaking the game and saying your version of tedious is the right version, compared to the guy who bought the 60.

blizzard quivering in their boots? what do you mean? i was referring to everyone's gameplay experience, not blizzard's profits. and your example of trying to farm gold yourself is exactly what i mean't.

The whole point of this thread and what has CLEARLY been stated a billion times is that repair costs are not functioning properly. Why you ask? Because players (majority of raiders) are circumventing this inane time sink by purchasing gold from farmers since Blizzard clearly endorses them by allowing them to farm the same spots 24/7 basically not allowing anyone but themselves to reap the rewards of said spot.

So here is the problem:

A.) Repair costs are already steep, and more than a few people have question how expensive it will be to maintain repair costs for T3 drops

B.) Blizzard does nothing to prohibit gold farmers specifically which means that normal players have not a chance in hell to solo farm if they so choose.

C.) Solo Farming IS NOT a viable solution to repair costs, nor is instancing with PUGs as it is dice roll on the idiocy level of your group (IE you end up paying gold to do an instance)


The devs need to come up with a solution to the problem, because the only one that is becoming readily available is your local IGE clone selling gold.

The only other solution I can come up is to start charging people who want me to group with them. O you want to do a 45 minute baron run? That will be 40g please...

[Ravvenn]

Originally Posted by Dumar

what if i said that gearing up is tedious, and it's not fun for me. i don't want to do that, either. it's just a game, and i'm supposed to have fun, right?

Wrong, if it were - you wouldn't be playing games, since almost every single one requires you to gear up, I'd also call you lazy and tell you to play something more simple and less of a stress on your fragile mind, such as Candyland.

no one has any right to say that there's any difference between the two, and that's what people don't recognize.

But you have the right to say there isn't? OH KAY!

edit: and it'll get to the point where buying a premade character is commonplace as buying gold. you think buying gold for consumables helps the game? wait a few years and see how far this outside market permeates every single mmo game from now on.

I'm not sure where you have been, but you do realize that the ability to purchase ingame cash and items has been around a long ass time, right? This isn't like you -alone- just discovered it and predicted the future of it. It's common sense, don't go all genius on us...genius.

----

I'd like to add that I personally thought there should be a death penalty via exp loss, I'm sure that would never happen because of poosae casuals crying they don't have the time to grind exp, or whatever random excuse there may be. (PS: I have casual playtime for the most part, just pointing that out before you ladies bitch about me using the C word)

[leane]

I'd also call you lazy and tell you to play something more simple and less of a stress on your fragile mind, such as Candyland.

Isn't that what WOW is?

[Dumar]

yea, the market's been around since UO, but not nearly as big as it is today. i'm sure that's because of WoW. it'll only get bigger and more obtrusive.

and i do agree that repair costs are a huge issue, but where we disagree on how to solve that is buying the gold for them.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by leane

Isn't that what WOW is?

Only until you hit level 60.