Have you ever bought in-game currency from the MMO secondary market?

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Hachima

Ok let me guess, you followthe speed limit 100% to the law right? Even though 99% of everyone on the road is speeding you follow the law and don't speed. Even though you could turn a 4 hour drive into just 3 hours, you obey the law and drive the speed limit.

But I guess anyone that values time just doesn't really understand much about enjoying life huh...

Look, you're missing the point. Insofar as going, "I can spend 10 hours in game achieving X, or spend 1 hour of RL salary for it; I think the latter is better" is fine on a conceptual level. The actual process of purchasing the gold is not the part that bothers me, it's the indirect use and results of it. Epic mounts are something you're supposed to work for, not a right you have for reaching 60. You are SUPPOSED to use your 60% mount for weeks and weeks, even months upon reaching 60. Only the upper crust were supposed to get epic mounts. The fact you want the mount isn't sufficient reason. You should be forced to earn it.

Of course I go 10+ over the limit. There's no rule of live that travelling is supposed to be slow and that accellerating the process is equivalent to cheating. I go over the limit to save time, the same reason you buy gold. The difference is I'm not circumventing an intended bottleneck, you are. There was a time when having an epic mount meant you were the hottest shit on the block. Now people consider you a nub for not having one, even if you hit 60 that day, and it's really unfortunate.

[Hachima]

Originally Posted by Gallenite

For EQ2, unless it's a purchase on an Exchange server via the Exchange service, we do remove it from buyers as the rest of the chain from farmer/botter->mule->seller gets banned.

"The integrity of the game" can manifest itself in lots of different ways.

To a gaming purist, it has one meaning.

To others, it can just mean, "I'm not going to support those idiots training the dungeons and trying to swipe nameds from others, so they can fill the coffers of (insert site name here)." That's exactly where the majority of the external coin comes from.

To each their own.

I dunno about that in EQ2. Obviously you have acces to more information that don't but it doesn't match my obervations in game as a player. The biggest time sink players face in EQ2 is tradeskill related. Raiders and casuals alike all want their adept 3 spells and pre T7 they wanted the top crafted gear. So many players are faced with spending hours farming the rares or buying gold online to get all adept 3s so they could go raid full power.

As a result of that, most of the known farmers will harvest the rares and most people know who these farmers are. As a player of the game with multiple level 60+ I have earned a ton of plat myself. Even with a full group or solo I can't farm named for a good profit. If I want to earn money I would go harvest moonstones on fear isle or something like that.

This was a big reason why T7 harvesting was designed so it couldn't be botted/easily farmed like T6 was.

Sure harvesting doesn't produce the coin but it accumulates the coin, and fast. Rare item dropsalso don't produce gold at all. And you don't get enough tradeable ones to actully make good money from it. Farming aviaks for gold on the other hand does produce coin, as does vendoring other junk. Which is also a very good way to 'farm' gold.

The last means of accumulating gold which is popular amung farmers is farming collection items which can be done at the same time as the 2 previous mentioned methods(TS items and just mass grinding solo mobs for coin drops). It is a way to accumulate the coin on the server.

I'd say the secondary market has very little to do with people stealing named in EQ2, which is a nice thing.

[Szlia]

I'll try one of these bad internet analogy. Imagine a MMORPG that is oh so great and oh so cool, it's everything everyone ever wanted, except that for some reason the devs decided that to make the players feel the hard life that is the one of an adventurer each key as to be hit five times for it to register. Would you:

1) Not play the game
2) Play it using PentaKey.exe and illegal add-on to multiply all your key strokes by 5
3) Play it by the book and insult of these nasty cheaters that beat you in PvP and are better at PvE while forgetting the situation is generated by retarded game design (mmmh I may have slanted that answer a little...)

[Hachima]

Originally Posted by Makata

There's no rule of live that travelling is supposed to be slow and that accellerating the process is equivalent to cheating.

Dang, I should tell that to the officer the next time I get a speeding ticket.

[Maxxius]

Originally Posted by Jaytee Bushwacker

The only cost I associate with the game is the monthly fee. If it costs me more than that I am not going to play. I don't play to entertain others, I play to entertain me. WoW is going to be surplanted in a few years just like EQ was just like Ultima was before that and on and on. People are saying in essence: I play to get my jollies off and I really don't care about the "integrity" of something thats going to be pointless in a couple years."



The difference is at work they pay me to do the stupid pointless shit. I am not going to turn around and pay someone money I have budgeted as entertainment $$ to then be told by the person I'm paying "Do this stupid boring pointless stuff before you actually have fun"

I'm sorry Jaytee, you seem to be a bright enough fellow. You know darn well this is a load of crap. You know darn well you are in effect exploiting the game and supporting other exploiters as well. You just refuse to see how it actually hurts the other players, or you simply don't care. I am suspecting the latter. As Nyx said, if you want to exploit go play console games and hit the cheats all you want. Doesn't impact me or others if you do. But don't try to rationalize this shit in a MMO. You and yours are the problem simply because you and yours create the market.

[Kirun]

Originally Posted by MAKATA

I go over the limit to save time, the same reason you buy gold. The difference is I'm not circumventing an intended bottleneck, you are.

Wow! Just.. wow! Yes you are, that's why it's called a fucking law you dolt. You think they throw up those signs saying "Hey guys, 65, 95, who gives a shit. This isn't really a bottleneck or intended to be followed. We just wanted to waste some time today!"

[l0z]

Life is full of people trying to get ahead. If it weren't, we'd all be living in fucking caves, beating each other with branches and rocks.

It was 'intended design' that people walk with their feet, not drive around in cars. Doesn't stop me from filling up my tank and mashing the pedal to the floor.

It was 'intended design' that food is eaten raw, not be cooked. Doesn't keep me from asking for my burger medium-rare when it's broiled.

And you know what? It was probably 'intended design' that idiots like Makata could only share their thoughts via spoken word and gesture to those unfortunate enough to be near them. Unfortunately, he's managed to figure out how to circumvent the system and use the internet.

Obviously he's avoiding the huge timesink of walking to your house, living off of a diet of raw meat, just to communicate with rudimentary gestures and grunts that he's 'doing it right', because he's not trying to bypass the 'intended design' by 'cheating'.

People will do what gets them to their goal in the most expedient and pleasurable way possible. It's human nature. It may not be ethical. It may not be perfect. It may involve stepping on someone else's toes along the way. But it's not going to change, and you, Makata, are not the Avatar of Virtue, come to tell gamers how to morally play a game based on the 'intended design'.

Yeah man, feel free to call me an 'ignorant fuckstain' or whatever completely witty, yet childish, insult you manage to dream up. Maybe that spittle flying from your lips as your fingers mash against the keyboard in a desperate attempt to swing opinion your way will bring you comfort when you later jerk yourself to sleep at the thought of all your ethically-gained, golden-hued pixels.

PS: I don't buy gold/ISK/platinum/gil/whatever. So when you're formulating your next post with brilliant deductive reasoning, just keep that in mind. I wouldn't want you to base an argument on an incorrect assumption or anything. I'd also recommend you spend more time studying than playing WoW and posting on message boards if the best argument you can muster is 'It's not ethical' when talking about how to play a goddamned video game.

[Jaytee Bushwacker]

Originally Posted by Maxxius

I'm sorry Jaytee, you seem to be a bright enough fellow. You know darn well this is a load of crap.

It's not a load of crap, it was a valid analogy.

You know darn well you are in effect exploiting the game and supporting other exploiters as well. You just refuse to see how it actually hurts the other players, or you simply don't care. I am suspecting the latter.

It is the latter, I don't *PAY* to play WoW to worry about the gaming experience of other people. In game I'm polite, I don't smack on people...even the real idiots I just move on but, if someone wants to buy gold I have no problem with that it does not impact me. I could really not care less about he "economy" in WoW that will be irrelevant in a couple years.

As Nyx said, if you want to exploit go play console games and hit the cheats all you want. Doesn't impact me or others if you do. But don't try to rationalize this shit in a MMO. You and yours are the problem simply because you and yours create the market.

A reasonable statement but it won't hold up in the real world. If people buying gold don't care what you think about that why would they care how they impact your game experience?

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Kirun

Wow! Just.. wow! Yes you are, that's why it's called a fucking law you dolt. You think they throw up those signs saying "Hey guys, 65, 95, who gives a shit. This isn't really a bottleneck or intended to be followed. We just wanted to waste some time today!"

There are speed limits imposed because of a general sense of maintaining driver safety. As in some specialist decided 40 mph is the fastest speed which is X% safe. That's not to say 45 mph is unsafe, just less safe than 40, and they want X.

I know that by speeding I am increasing my chance for an accident (very very slightly) and that I am breaking a law. I don't deny either of those. But that isn't a bottleneck. They don't impose speed limits because they want you to take alot of time to reach your goal. If 100 mph was safe, they'd make that the limit. Blizzard however DOES impose a bottleneck. They DO want you to waste a portion of your time farming gold or whatever. They do want you to have to do other content in the game instead of living in a fucking bubble of isolation like you want so much.

Yet you still completely miss that. You proclaim "Stratholme is boring! I will never go there!!!" yet the entire point from day 1 was that you do return there from time to time. Orbs for enchanting? Frayed Abomination Skin? Skin of Shadow (scholo)? You're supposed to do things BESDIES raid but you refuse to. That isn't Blizzard's fault, it's yours. Get off your high horse, stop pretending like you're better than everyone else, and play the rest of the game, not just your super awesome l33t content.

[l0z]

Originally Posted by Makata

I know that by speeding I am increasing my chance for an accident (very very slightly) and that I am breaking a law. I don't deny either of those. But that isn't a bottleneck.

Uhh... wow.

You want other people to respect your opinions on how to play a game, yet you don't realize when making analogies to explain your point that speed limits are imposed to protect other drivers from your crazy, speedin' ass?

You're one brilliant guy! Five golden retard stars for you!

[redjunkopera]

Here is the thing. Anyone can purchase gold in a game and succeed.

By purchasing gold in game you more or less are conceeding that you cannot get ahead without cheating. As much as you like to bask in your end-game toon glory... anyone else could just buy one better than yours on the fly... your accomplishment is meaningless. The only one you are fooling is yourself.

It's like beating up a little kid... yeah you beat someone up, but you wouldn't be able to do it if you didn't have a massively unfair advantage.

Repairs from raiding too high? How about you stop dying in the raids so much. That is the trade-off. In order to stop anyone from finishing the game in a week you can do two things... make it take skill, or make it take time. If you had the skill, you wouldn't have to spend the time farming. Why not just pay someone to raid for you... might be cheaper, rofl.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by redjunkopera

Here is the thing. Anyone can purchase gold in a game and succeed.

By purchasing gold in game you more or less are conceeding that you cannot get ahead without cheating. As much as you like to bask in your end-game toon glory... anyone else could just buy one better than yours on the fly... your accomplishment is meaningless. The only one you are fooling is yourself.

It's like beating up a little kid... yeah you beat someone up, but you wouldn't be able to do it if you didn't have a massively unfair advantage.

Repairs from raiding too high? How about you stop dying in the raids so much. That is the trade-off. In order to stop anyone from finishing the game in a week you can do two things... make it take skill, or make it take time. If you had the skill, you wouldn't have to spend the time farming. Why not just pay someone to raid for you... might be cheaper, rofl.

Do you even play WoW? I don't know what game this rant addresses but it isn't Warcraft.

[redjunkopera]

half the rants of people trying to convince themselves that it was ok to buy gold earlier in this thread were justifying it by saying that it was too boring to farm the gold to pay for repairs after raids.

Solution = stop dying.

[Szlia]

Yeah but you are saying there are high costs related to raiding only for people that are not skilled and that's where you come off as someone who has no idea of what he is talking about.

[redjunkopera]

If you had more skill, you wouldn't die as much... it's a directly porportional relationship.

As skill increases, death decreases.

Obviously, if you have too farm too much to pay for your repairs... you could stand to increase your skill.

ffs, is this the FoH boards?