Vanguard E3 Coverage

[Maxxius]

Originally Posted by Arbuste

Looks much better than before. And extremely much better than on the computer I've seen it run on (not high end, just decent.)
Sceneries look good and even the characters look a little less retarded.

But this is not looking good. I can't help comparing it to WoW's houses and inns.

That doesn't look anywhere near like WOW. It is English Tudor style architecture but that is about it.

[Digits]

When it comes to combat, I can't say much. It's overall feeling is exciting like EQ is exciting, from my limited experience. You can't be late on heals or people die, and if you don't have a rezzer then they have to run back naked and with debt. The actual combat is pretty dry so far, but the whole 'feel' of the combat is tense due to death sucking so much. If WoW had the balls, yes it does take balls, to put in naked CR and exp loss then it would probably obtain the same effect.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Maxxius

That doesn't look anywhere near like WOW.

I think that was his point - WoW inns look like (stylised) inns, whereas that looks like a shed with a bear head nailed to the wall.

[Axterix]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

If you make enough shitty World War 2 FPS shooters, it is my theory that at some point the entire genre of World War 2 FPS games would start to take a huge decline in sales and popularity. The same thing would happen to the MMORPG genre, and as far as I am concerned, was already happening.

The theory seems to work for posts on boards as well. Lord knows I skip enough of your posts

[redjunkopera]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Better than sticking my head up my own ass while ignoring valid beta tester complaints 6 months from release.

fixed that for ya...

Considering most games would only be starting beta 6 months from release how valid can you really assume any of the "beta complaints" are?

Sure those whines might have some weight if the game was 3 months from being shipped but it isn't... they have incorperated a long beta into their game design strategy so that hopefully they don't have to go back and completely overhaul systems that were superficially modified late in beta in order to make them work. Hopefully with such early imput they can get things right the first time.... avoid the SOE band-aid approach to fixing things (PBAE nerf, Summoning... etc).

I really don't give a flying fuck about how brown, or choppy the animations look. FFS the game could be black and white with stick-figures for all I care... what I expect from Vanguard is gameplay with depth. A return of risk. Gameplay with meaning... pretty colors and snazzy animations are pretty easy apparently because every game out there has a million of them. I want a game where I'm not going to complete some level 20 quest and 5 minutes later be selling that quest reward to the vendor because I got an upgrade off some trash mob otw back from the quest dungeon to the city.

[gurgi]

Originally Posted by Itzena

I think that was his point - WoW inns look like (stylised) inns, whereas that looks like a shed with a bear head nailed to the wall.

Sheds everywhere take offense.

[Nino]

Originally Posted by Kirun

Please Brad, for all that is holy and nice in the world, for the preservation of all that makes humanity good and benevolent, and for the SAKE OF THE CHILDREN, don't fuck this game up. Not because we need a new MMORPG to play, but just so we can throw it in this douchebag's face.

I will double..NAY..triple my efforts so we can all fling feces at said douchebag! No Doze? Pfft. Rolled up $100 bills and a pound of meth? Nope. I will burn the oil of pure hatred in my lantern at night to keep me awake while I work on Vanguard. You win AGAIN Vanguard~!

[Xhar]

Originally Posted by Simas

All of the stuff I've read makes it sound pretty interesting. Combat in FFXI was great when you actually had a group you could talk to and would go through the renkies (sp?) and from a few of the write-ups it sounds like VG will have certain classes designed around bridging or harmonizing (I forget the word they used). For instance the Sorcerer being able to ping pong alot with the Psicionist, they seemed to imply the Sorc will be able to do that with other classes as well.
I think most people would just refer to this mechanic as "skill chains." It is nothing new, no matter if it requires great attention, great knowledge of skills/effects, or has huge weaving chains, etc. It's just pushing on the right button at the right time. Sure it's a feature, but it's nothing that hasn't been experienced to some level before.

But yeah if its anything like XI, with it sounds like on paper, combined with the perception and reaction stuff, and rituals (still wish WoW had gone through with those) it sounds like combat, esp raids, could be alot of fun.
I'm still confused on the perception/reaction stuff I guess from what I've seen. In combat you'll get a message stating that you've percieved a spell being cast or whatever, and then you click on the counterspell button...This is worse then me actually watching out for the casting animations on the mobs themselves imo. Or maybe someone can chime in about this subject with more depth? And say you're walking through a cave, if you go slow, you might see mobs that would be invisible if you were running through? I guess that's kinda cool if it's implemented alright throughout the world.

reply in red

[Maxxius]

Was kind of hoping this thread would avoid the VG sucks/does not it's beta line. I was hoping it would revolve more around concrete game design as being shown at E3.

As much as I do agree with alot of what Utnayan says, we have been down that road enough times now.

[gilbertgbert]

Phew, I'm pretty drained trying to skim the shit for decent info, of which there is little here. So far I've seen nothing much more concrete than 'it takes chop x infinity' to make a useless object.

One or two posts started to show some promise... can we see some more people stepping up who have actually played/seen the game in action to describe a little more of what the core mechanics are like?

For me personally, the screenshots look godawful; they have that 'very clean but bland and sharp' look with little real characterisation. However, I'm willing to accept that filters are still to go in which pull the whole look together.

Maybe we need Buttface to step in again and this time fulfil his 'I don't give an ass about my Beta place, I'm gonna spill my guts' approach!

As a sidenote, despite the fact that Ut seems to draw in a response by a Dev almost as if they wait specifically for him to post, can someone not ban the guy? He seems to choke the hell out of threads and it wears me down

[Oloh]

Originally Posted by Itzena

whereas that looks like a shed with a bear head nailed to the wall.

In fairness, that is what the screenshot is. As Jerrith stated above, it is a picture of player housing. You can take that bear head off, rotate it, move it around, put it on a table. Pretty much everything that you see in that picture can be moved around rotated, stacked, etc. If you like more clutter, you can add other stuff as well, adjust lighting, etc.

And that bear head will probably come from a named bear that you killed in Forest Edge...

I am sure there will be some good write-ups about player housing from e3, but I just wanted to chime in because that house looks like it does because a player decorated it.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Gamblor

I'd say the completely generic feel to a good portion of Brownnan's Stead doesnt exactly inspire newbies to keep testing. Or the fact that every newbie "dungeon" in a 10 mile radius of that godawful town is the exact same hole in the ground with different turns and maybe a goblin instead of a spider.

Don't worry, they won't believe it until they see it....although one could claim that there is enough evidence out already. We got the screenshots, we got the movies and we even got a few Beta-"reviews". All of this is enough to draw pretty good conclusions. Mine goes like this:

The problem with Vanguard is the size. The world is huge and because of that they decided not to populate it by hand, they decided to do it with an algorithm. To cover the wide open space they also introduced generic dungeons made from texture modules, pretty much like LDoN, just less complex. The outcome is that the whole game reminds me of SWG where they also generated yard trash for you to keep you busy.

Players who want to explore an unknown mystic world will be disappointed, because they cannot follow the path of an artist or a dungeonmaster skillfully leading them on their journey, they can only follow the path of the mathematician who came up with the algorithm to optimize playtime vs. progress.

This is a common problem for the whole game. It all started with the generic body types, when someone decided that it would be too expensive to create unique bodies and armor for every single race, it continued with the world population algorithm and it ended (for now) with the generic dungeons to fill the open meaningless areas. Vanguard is for the most part just a generic shortcut to save manpower.

The only real unique stuff in this game are the towns and the few high level dungeons. In this area the game has probably more to offer than EQ (with just Lower Guk and Sol B). So once you reach the higher levels, the game gets probably a lot better.

Basically it wouldn't be too difficult to get things back on track. All they have to do is to dump the shortcuts and use the talent of their employees. They were seeking people with a background in fantasy games, so why not make use of that? Whenever they thought that the engine could do the work for them, that's where they have to start all over and do it by hand. The 3D world is there, so the stage is set. Now all they have to do is to write the screenplay.

It's not too late and that's why I wouldn't write them off yet.

[Xaen]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Vex Thal? No loot done on warders? Plane of Mischief completed 3 months after release of Velious? Broken VP Key quest?

These were minor problems that pissed off the Uber guilds back in the day. You're acting like this ruined EQ1 entirely because of it, and so it also applies right down to his hiring processes.

You have some great arguements where people have screwed up in the past with SOEs history, but these past few pages of rants are a bit much. Especially the really lame personal attacks of people whome you haven't even met probably.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Oloh

In fairness, that is what the screenshot is. As Jerrith stated above, it is a picture of player housing. You can take that bear head off, rotate it, move it around, put it on a table. Pretty much everything that you see in that picture can be moved around rotated, stacked, etc. If you like more clutter, you can add other stuff as well, adjust lighting, etc.

And that bear head will probably come from a named bear that you killed in Forest Edge...

I am sure there will be some good write-ups about player housing from e3, but I just wanted to chime in because that house looks like it does because a player decorated it.

OK, fair enough - good answer.

[Designz]

Second system syndrome!

Quality over quantity - this is how WoW dominates.