eventual itemization problem? (warning: theorycraft) - Page 2

Qhue · 04-21-2006, 07:19 AM

WoW is already too much like Killer Instinct. I don't think we need 'COMBO!....SUPER COMBO!'

elrich · 04-21-2006, 07:25 AM

ENDLESS COMBO

Cybsled · 04-21-2006, 08:00 AM

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

ULLLLLTRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAA COMMMMBOOOOOOOOO!

SUPREME VICTORY!

Killer Instinct was the grand daddy of the UT and Quake announcer ;(

Getting back to the thread

Quote:

I think Blizzard should put in some kind of Defense equivalent against magic. So that you decrease the chances of getting nuked by a critical spell.

Rofl?

No problem. Give us casters the ability to dodge melee crits/special abilities and we'll call it even.

Jubee · 04-21-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybsled

No problem. Give us casters the ability to dodge melee crits/special abilities and we'll call it even.

Man if only casters had a way to dodge melee attacks... But what would they call this magical ability to dodge attacks? Avoid? No no. Immune? That wouldn't work either... Hmm, somebody help me out here. What would you call the ability to dodge melee?

And Runnen, it's called +resist gear. There is your spell dodge.

Gryzx · 04-21-2006, 08:19 AM

man I loved killer instinct, supposedly their workin on a version 3... back to the topic, Tseric posted on the warrior forums a few weeks ago that there was not a avoidance cap.

Don't forget that those percentages are for lvl 60 mobs also, if they start getting ridiculous percents vs lvl 60 mobs they just need to up the level of the mob and your percents go down.

SalaciousTunare · 04-21-2006, 08:23 AM

There are no caps stat wise that I know of... how else could you explain these? (these are mine from the totem bug some months ago)

Cybsled · 04-21-2006, 08:27 AM

I'm well aware that casters can technically dodge hits, although it's such a rarity it might as well not exist. I think I've dodged maybe one attack in 5,000 in a PVP situation.

If anything, melee already have the upperhand resist wise. A little resist buff, some nice armor (most of the epic stuff already has resists rolled into it), and voila.

ps: Rofl, I had a friend who leveled a rogue with that totem stacking. He was like level 52 after 1 day total time played.

Gryzx · 04-21-2006, 08:31 AM

lol would have been fun to be a shaman back when that bug was around.

Anyhow the only thing I can think of that limits them from just raising the level of things is the miss rate and resist rate. Which if they provide enough +hit for spells and melee to compensate for this on gear, then they can easily up the level on raid mobs to lvl 68+ or whatever it takes to scale down your stats to a reasonable level.

Of course they'll need to put a PVP cap in most likely, cuz the casuals not being able to hit the rogue with melee anymore are likely to throw a fit. But I've always thought PVP needed it's own set of rules anyhow to keep from messing up PVE.

Gryzx · 04-21-2006, 08:33 AM

Actually now that I think about it when the expansion comes and people are level 70 your stats are going to be worth less anyhow so that may rebalance it again.

I wonder what the dodge percent of the 60 rogue profile would be at level 70.

Jubee · 04-21-2006, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybsled

If anything, melee already have the upperhand resist wise. A little resist buff, some nice armor (most of the epic stuff already has resists rolled into it), and voila.

While Rogues and such may be an issue with resists, Warrior DPS gear has next to 0, save for maybe 10 FR from the Ony neck. If a Warrior is wearing his Might/Wrath into pvp, he won't have the damage to kill you anyway. If the same Warrior is running in with his DPS clown suit, I wouldn't worry too much about his resists.

... · 04-21-2006, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gryzx

Actually now that I think about it when the expansion comes and people are level 70 your stats are going to be worth less anyhow so that may rebalance it again.

I wonder what the dodge percent of the 60 rogue profile would be at level 70.

i'd imagine it'd be similar to the required stats as per the shift from 50-60. i bet some one could make a fancy graph to figure out the stat required per dodge/crit/mitigation percentage and figure out how much will be needed for level 70.

Wodin · 04-21-2006, 08:36 AM

Balanced gear always ends up doing more and being better than a specifically focused build. That 42% crit warrior has ~700AP. Your typical DPS warrior these days has 1100ish unbuffed. The extra crit is nice and all, but it's not 28DPS nice.

And "only 20 agility more piece" is pretty brutally expensive when you consider the item budget. Adding 20 agility to Deathdealer Helm makes it an ilvl 103 item. We're going to be lucky to see ilvl 95 stuff drop in Naxx.

Cybsled: where are the resists on Deathdealer/AQ gear? There aren't any. I think Blizzard realized that the splash resists on the T2 stuff just caused problems, because if you want resist gear you wear resist focused pieces and then better stuff otherwise.

Darkmyst · 04-21-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorlac

You can bump up your critrate all you want, if you don't survive some fights.

All that crit comes at the expense of a lot of AP. Not a good trade in practice if you ask me. An 1100ish AP Fury warrior (dual wield or 2hd) is not going to even break a sweat out dpsing the build the OP linked.

Elerion · 04-21-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalaciousTunare

There are no caps stat wise that I know of... how else could you explain these? (these are mine from the totem bug some months ago)

Through a bug, a guildie's hunter alt managed to get a level 26 turtle pet to have ~1 million armor. The tooltip showed something like 98.xx% mitigation. When he sent him against Mor'Ladim, he mitigated 75%. Obviously drawing conclusions from bugs is dangerous, but tooltips could very well ignore mechanic caps when stats reach unnatural levels.

If you had taken that shaman up to a high level elite and dodged every attack for a good while, I'd be more inclined to see it as proof. Tooltips don't necessarily speak the truth.

WarderX · 04-21-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalaciousTunare

There are no caps stat wise that I know of... how else could you explain these? (these are mine from the totem bug some months ago)

IMG http://home.fuse.net/salacious/sploits/cowgot2.jpg /IMG
IMG http://home.fuse.net/salacious/sploits/dodge.jpg /IMG
IMG http://home.fuse.net/salacious/sploits/crit.jpg /IMG

What's the little cloud thing under your portrait?

04-21-2006, 08:23 AM	#21 (permalink)
SalaciousTunare Idiot Prodigy Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,142 -13 Internets	Heh There are no caps stat wise that I know of... how else could you explain these? (these are mine from the totem bug some months ago)

04-21-2006, 08:27 AM	#22 (permalink)
Cybsled Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 10,278 +49 Internets	I'm well aware that casters can technically dodge hits, although it's such a rarity it might as well not exist. I think I've dodged maybe one attack in 5,000 in a PVP situation. If anything, melee already have the upperhand resist wise. A little resist buff, some nice armor (most of the epic stuff already has resists rolled into it), and voila. ps: Rofl, I had a friend who leveled a rogue with that totem stacking. He was like level 52 after 1 day total time played. __________________ Training the citizens of Norrath from 1999-2003!

04-21-2006, 08:36 AM	#27 (permalink)
Wodin Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,915 +0 Internets	Balanced gear always ends up doing more and being better than a specifically focused build. That 42% crit warrior has ~700AP. Your typical DPS warrior these days has 1100ish unbuffed. The extra crit is nice and all, but it's not 28DPS nice. And "only 20 agility more piece" is pretty brutally expensive when you consider the item budget. Adding 20 agility to Deathdealer Helm makes it an ilvl 103 item. We're going to be lucky to see ilvl 95 stuff drop in Naxx. Cybsled: where are the resists on Deathdealer/AQ gear? There aren't any. I think Blizzard realized that the splash resists on the T2 stuff just caused problems, because if you want resist gear you wear resist focused pieces and then better stuff otherwise. __________________ Wodin - Troll Rogue - Elitist Jerks - Mal'Ganis

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04-21-2006, 07:19 AM	#16 (permalink)
Qhue Tunare's most surly gnome Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sunny Upstate NY Posts: 1,498	WoW is already too much like Killer Instinct. I don't think we need 'COMBO!....SUPER COMBO!'

04-21-2006, 07:25 AM	#17 (permalink)
elrich Jackass Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 944 -3 Internets	ENDLESS COMBO

04-21-2006, 08:19 AM	#20 (permalink)
Gryzx Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 529 +0 Internets	man I loved killer instinct, supposedly their workin on a version 3... back to the topic, Tseric posted on the warrior forums a few weeks ago that there was not a avoidance cap. Don't forget that those percentages are for lvl 60 mobs also, if they start getting ridiculous percents vs lvl 60 mobs they just need to up the level of the mob and your percents go down.

04-21-2006, 08:31 AM	#23 (permalink)
Gryzx Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 529 +0 Internets	lol would have been fun to be a shaman back when that bug was around. Anyhow the only thing I can think of that limits them from just raising the level of things is the miss rate and resist rate. Which if they provide enough +hit for spells and melee to compensate for this on gear, then they can easily up the level on raid mobs to lvl 68+ or whatever it takes to scale down your stats to a reasonable level. Of course they'll need to put a PVP cap in most likely, cuz the casuals not being able to hit the rogue with melee anymore are likely to throw a fit. But I've always thought PVP needed it's own set of rules anyhow to keep from messing up PVE.

04-21-2006, 08:33 AM	#24 (permalink)
Gryzx Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 529 +0 Internets	Actually now that I think about it when the expansion comes and people are level 70 your stats are going to be worth less anyhow so that may rebalance it again. I wonder what the dodge percent of the 60 rogue profile would be at level 70.