Loadtime Mods

Kasonic · 04-13-2006, 10:59 AM

Such as those listed here:

http://demonmagnet.com/elitistforum/...pic.php?p=4782

In case you haven't heard of them, they're mods that prevent useless or irrelevant UI checks from happening, DRASTICALLY reducing loadtimes for instances, zepplins, etc, down to a handful of seconds.

Seriously, why is the WoW UI so amazingly inefficient? Before, I had no idea this was even possible, so I couldn't complain. Now that players are coding mods that drop Blizzard's loadtimes by a factor of ten, it makes it clear how sloppy they can be.

Why the fuck isn't this standard code? Or even a toggle or slider in Interface Options for us? Apparently some mods bug out when running these, but the Catalyst one is supposed to be totally bug-free, and personally I'd hope Blizzard could do better than a mod coded in some unpaid WoW player's free time.

Gryzx · 04-13-2006, 11:05 AM

I wonder if his testing was with the Blizzard default ui + catalyst (etc) or if it was with All his mods + catalyst (etc)?

If it makes that big of a difference with just the blizzard default ui (and doesn't break something), that's pretty crazy.

Remfin · 04-13-2006, 11:57 AM

IIRC from the thread there is only one Blizzard UI thing that "suffered" from this, and the instructions it executed weren't much, so it added essentially 0 time. It's being fixed tho

This is the MODmaker's problem. As you pointed out, the universal mod that "fixes" this breaks some mods. The mods themselves should have implemented this (and some did), not Blizzard

Of course now Blizzard is evidentally adding some kind of version of this as part of the default client thanks to all the screaming like yours. I hope they don't just do it as a 100% thing and have an option that lets you ignore the new restriction, or it will break some mods permanently

Praetor · 04-13-2006, 12:06 PM

Pretty much my whole guild got http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=2419 as soon as we heard of it, and it's a fucking godsend. Just get it, you won't regret it. 2sec to zone into AQ40 with my entire raid group standing inside waiting for me? Yes please.

RandomChanter · 04-13-2006, 12:11 PM

Wow, guess I'm in the minority. Perhaps a lot has changed since I last played, but I never had any issues with zoning for instances or continents in WoW. It was always pretty damn fast (3-5 seconds iirc).

Now, if I could get something like this for EQ2, I'd cry tears of joy

.

Keltan · 04-13-2006, 12:27 PM

If you simply run the default UI, these things won't have that big an impact. If you are running CT_Raid, Lootlink, +a bunch of others, it makes a massive difference.

Deathwing · 04-13-2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keltan

If you simply run the default UI, these things won't have that big an impact. If you are running CT_Raid, Lootlink, +a bunch of others, it makes a massive difference.

I do run those amount of mods. I haven't tried this mod, but every time I zone, I'm waiting on the server. At least, I assume that's what a full blue bar and no HD activity means.

Icedtea · 04-13-2006, 12:50 PM

Yeah, ppl in my guild were talking about these the other day, and we tested em out and they seemed to help dramatically.

Icedtea
Garona

Cor · 04-13-2006, 01:16 PM

Catalyst is by far the best of the bunch. Zoned into BWL in 2.2s with just over 80 addons installed.

Kasonic · 04-13-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cor

Catalyst is by far the best of the bunch. Zoned into BWL in 2.2s with just over 80 addons installed.

How could you possibly use EIGHTY mods?

Cad · 04-13-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasonic

How could you possibly use EIGHTY mods?

Titanpanel has a shitload of plugins that I use, discord has a bunch of modules, etc.. I don't think he really uses 80 mods, just some mods can have 10-15 modules that load as separate mods.

Szlia · 04-13-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

I'd hope Blizzard could do better than a mod coded in some unpaid WoW player's free time.

I would guess they could do better but they have a problem: they have to actually pay someone to do it and maybe they feel their money is better spent in other areas. This is not a jab at Blizzard in any way, just a statement of fact that holds value for a number of other similar cases.

Kasonic · 04-13-2006, 02:03 PM

With the seamlessness Blizzard has aimed for with WoW's overworld, you'd think reducing 30-second-or-more(even with no mods) load times to negligible blips would be a decent priority.

I'd imagine the cause is to prevent UI issues and be as safe as possible, but I doubt Blizzard ever planned for anyone to be running eighty third-party mods; it's not that they can't or won't pay to fix it, it's that they never recognized it as an issue.

Cor · 04-13-2006, 02:44 PM

When I saw eighty, that shows up as eighty different addons loading up in warmup. A lot of them are libraries such as Ace and Timex and what not, or very limited use mods which really don't do much at all.

Then, as cad mentioned, some of them load up seperate modules, for example, Castparty shows up as four seperate mods.

When I was looking over the list of addons, there didn't appear to many that I neglect to use, except for maybe a few of them, and since my UI only uses up 25mb of memory, it doesn't really affect my performance too much, if at all.

Weritech · 04-13-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasonic

Such as those listed here:

http://demonmagnet.com/elitistforum/...pic.php?p=4782

In case you haven't heard of them, they're mods that prevent useless or irrelevant UI checks from happening, DRASTICALLY reducing loadtimes for instances, zepplins, etc, down to a handful of seconds.

Seriously, why is the WoW UI so amazingly inefficient? Before, I had no idea this was even possible, so I couldn't complain. Now that players are coding mods that drop Blizzard's loadtimes by a factor of ten, it makes it clear how sloppy they can be.

Why the fuck isn't this standard code? Or even a toggle or slider in Interface Options for us? Apparently some mods bug out when running these, but the Catalyst one is supposed to be totally bug-free, and personally I'd hope Blizzard could do better than a mod coded in some unpaid WoW player's free time.

Lots of programs and devices are "overbuilt" in some way. Many of these things sacrifice one attribute like speed for something else like versatility, stability or ease of use.

There's a lot of "optional" shit you could rip out of your car to go faster or get better gas mileage but many if not most people like have A/C, a radio, back/passenger seats, a muffler.

Likewise, there are generally a shitload of checks run and modules loaded with any program that could be stripped out for better performance.

However, before deciding to remove them or even make a user servicable option like a slider to enable disable them you have to weigh it all. Does the noticable user benefit outweigh the potential support petitions or perceived instability/complexity in the event that someone fiddles with it without understanding exactly what they're doing?

It's not a matter of being sloppy or lazily inefficient it's essential thing in professional, commercial software that is intended be as stable, easy to use by millions of people.

04-13-2006, 10:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
Kasonic dumb Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,627 +1 Internets	Loadtime Mods Such as those listed here: http://demonmagnet.com/elitistforum/...pic.php?p=4782 In case you haven't heard of them, they're mods that prevent useless or irrelevant UI checks from happening, DRASTICALLY reducing loadtimes for instances, zepplins, etc, down to a handful of seconds. Seriously, why is the WoW UI so amazingly inefficient? Before, I had no idea this was even possible, so I couldn't complain. Now that players are coding mods that drop Blizzard's loadtimes by a factor of ten, it makes it clear how sloppy they can be. Why the fuck isn't this standard code? Or even a toggle or slider in Interface Options for us? Apparently some mods bug out when running these, but the Catalyst one is supposed to be totally bug-free, and personally I'd hope Blizzard could do better than a mod coded in some unpaid WoW player's free time. Last edited by Kasonic; 04-13-2006 at 11:01 AM..

04-13-2006, 12:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
Praetor Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 427 +2 Internets	Pretty much my whole guild got http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=2419 as soon as we heard of it, and it's a fucking godsend. Just get it, you won't regret it. 2sec to zone into AQ40 with my entire raid group standing inside waiting for me? Yes please. __________________ Gurgthock, Elitist Jerks (Mal'Ganis)

04-13-2006, 12:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
Keltan Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 239 +0 Internets	If you simply run the default UI, these things won't have that big an impact. If you are running CT_Raid, Lootlink, +a bunch of others, it makes a massive difference. __________________ Tarkis of Garona, Orc Hunter

04-13-2006, 02:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
Kasonic dumb Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,627 +1 Internets	With the seamlessness Blizzard has aimed for with WoW's overworld, you'd think reducing 30-second-or-more(even with no mods) load times to negligible blips would be a decent priority. I'd imagine the cause is to prevent UI issues and be as safe as possible, but I doubt Blizzard ever planned for anyone to be running eighty third-party mods; it's not that they can't or won't pay to fix it, it's that they never recognized it as an issue. Last edited by Kasonic; 04-13-2006 at 02:09 PM..

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04-13-2006, 11:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
Gryzx Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 529 +0 Internets	I wonder if his testing was with the Blizzard default ui + catalyst (etc) or if it was with All his mods + catalyst (etc)? If it makes that big of a difference with just the blizzard default ui (and doesn't break something), that's pretty crazy.

04-13-2006, 11:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
Remfin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 526 +0 Internets	IIRC from the thread there is only one Blizzard UI thing that "suffered" from this, and the instructions it executed weren't much, so it added essentially 0 time. It's being fixed tho This is the MODmaker's problem. As you pointed out, the universal mod that "fixes" this breaks some mods. The mods themselves should have implemented this (and some did), not Blizzard Of course now Blizzard is evidentally adding some kind of version of this as part of the default client thanks to all the screaming like yours. I hope they don't just do it as a 100% thing and have an option that lets you ignore the new restriction, or it will break some mods permanently

04-13-2006, 12:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
RandomChanter Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 357 +0 Internets	Wow, guess I'm in the minority. Perhaps a lot has changed since I last played, but I never had any issues with zoning for instances or continents in WoW. It was always pretty damn fast (3-5 seconds iirc). Now, if I could get something like this for EQ2, I'd cry tears of joy .

04-13-2006, 12:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
Icedtea Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 149 +0 Internets	Yeah, ppl in my guild were talking about these the other day, and we tested em out and they seemed to help dramatically. Icedtea Garona

04-13-2006, 01:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
Cor Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,237 +8 Internets	Catalyst is by far the best of the bunch. Zoned into BWL in 2.2s with just over 80 addons installed.

04-13-2006, 02:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
Cor Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,237 +8 Internets	When I saw eighty, that shows up as eighty different addons loading up in warmup. A lot of them are libraries such as Ace and Timex and what not, or very limited use mods which really don't do much at all. Then, as cad mentioned, some of them load up seperate modules, for example, Castparty shows up as four seperate mods. When I was looking over the list of addons, there didn't appear to many that I neglect to use, except for maybe a few of them, and since my UI only uses up 25mb of memory, it doesn't really affect my performance too much, if at all.