[EVE Online] Whoa. - Page 50

Wodin · 08-01-2006, 02:17 AM

Well, today's comedy was a full rack of wardecs(BoB, D2, RZR, RISE, and IRON to go with the three corps already decced on us(AXE/Exuro Mortis/some random noobcorp)) and people are rampaging around Empire in frigate gangs blowing stuff up and pretty much ignoring S-U. The current sentiment seems to be that a) we know BoB are better PvPers than us(better SP/ships) and b) they waltzed in and entrenched themselves when nobody was home, so why put lots of effort into breaking back into a system and fighting pitched battles when there's silly fun to be had.

It's just decompression from the stress of the XZH campaign, really. I suspect that we'll be back soonish and there are all sorts of plans afoot, most of which will no doubt go horribly awry but at least be amusing and/or fun instead of stupid.

BoB has done a very professional job of locking down Syndicate, and it's fun to take notes on what they're doing right and wrong.

Larion · 08-01-2006, 02:19 AM

Maybe you should really consider sorting out your "humor" and ... maaaayybe work a bit more consistent on the diplomatic table..

You guys could have had it so easy...
Hope you guys don't give up completly though.. you where really close to being actually powerful and worth something alliance wise. I guess though as long as remedial is the "boss" or has anything to say you wont achieve much.

Gamblor · 08-01-2006, 02:36 AM

STOP POSTING. LARION>

Larion · 08-01-2006, 02:43 AM

You are really underestimating them... and obviously you don't have much experience with the alliances. The new ships will be availiable to everyone... and those 30mil sp people will use it as well. (although i doubt that it even makes much sense, since range is not worth a damn if you can't get to it and then it doesn't matter what range for sniping since you have to be able to dictate your range anyways, but i guess you know that already or i hope you do.

Without a better diplomatic agenda you guys are no way going to make it anywhere.
You also need better fleet commanders since yours officially suck. I watched some of the stuff you guys did on a friends account and it was a horrible display of newbishness from the fleet commanders side. You don't loose your battles because BoB and others have more sp you loose because your fleet commanders have no fucking clue what they are doing.

Gamblor · 08-01-2006, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larion

You are really underestimating them... and obviously you don't have much experience with the alliances. The new ships will be availiable to everyone... and those 30mil sp people will use it as well. (although i doubt that it even makes much sense, since range is not worth a damn if you can't get to it and then it doesn't matter what range for sniping since you have to be able to dictate your range anyways, but i guess you know that already or i hope you do.

I'm not underestimating BoB. Good killmails make them hard. Killmails of thousands of atron will only deflate their e-peen. Snipers shooting ammo that costs more than my ship+clone +fittings to kill me is not going to do anything for their enormous egos.

As for the tier 3 battleships, the rokh will not help out someone who can fit a T2 sniperthron. It lacks a damage bonus. And having an optimal of 320km is worthless when the targeting range is maxed out at 250km. The rokh allows low skill pilots to fit Iron charges into 425's and hit 200+km out. It doesn't matter that the damage will be shitty when you have the numbers goons have.

The only real benefit for a rokh in the hands of a t2 battleship pilot is being able to hit with javelin from 100km.

Larion · 08-01-2006, 03:59 AM

I would really like you to explain what 200+ sniping range has as a benefit for you... unless you are sniping in low sec out of sentry range there is no point and no way this can help you in a fleet battle. You will still have the other dictating the range if your fleetcommanders are unable to lead their fleets.
You can wtfrape any sniper fleet with a mixed fleet of gank bs,cruisers and frigates if you play smart.

Alone thinking that you should play a sniper game with BoB is ridiculous. Why play on their terms?

I have fought BoB myself long enough with mixed success and i know that they are nothing special compared to the other heavy pvping alliances, their only edge is their fleet commanders wich are tbh the best in eve. There are not many in eve that can compare with those. Single players skills are not really special within BoB. (especially not within BNC rofl...)

Another thing about BoB is.. that they probably pay less for their T2 stuff then you pay for your T1 stuff since they completly control the market there. They pay 2 mil for AF's for example.
And for morale... they wont care, they loose a lot all over eve everyday, their strengh is not that they have better skills or better pilots (even though they are good, at least some), their strengh lies in their supplies and the availiability of the T2 stuff ships and modules alike for prices that are ridiculously low.

Larion · 08-01-2006, 05:02 AM

Name Kills Losses
BigMek Industries 0 0
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers 0 13
Crimson Corporation 0 0
Delta Council 0 0
Duragon Pioneer Group 3 47
Epsilon Financial Bureau 0 24
Gamma Squad 0 0
General Products Inc 0 9
GoonFleet 51 688
GoonWaffe 39 722
H. A. R. M. 0 2
Lightning Dynamics 0 1
Magellanic Itg 0 2
Pies of Wrath 0 0
Rho Squadron 0 0
Sigma Central Administration 0 0
The Forsakened Companions 13 59
The Swarm Overmind 0 0
The Theta Project 0 0
Visual I.D 1 52

These are the current figures of losses and kills GS versus BoB from the BoB killboard. Wich is one of the most accurate boards btw (BoB kicks out members for not posting killmails and i actually had that happen to a person i know so i know it is the most accurate one).

Do you really think anyone would get bored or discouraged with these kinds of kill /loss ratios ????

Don't get me wrong, but you guys perform worse then i had every expected.

Kiroy · 08-01-2006, 05:39 AM

Larion

You should put in an application for Goonswarm CEO and win this war for em!

Larion · 08-01-2006, 05:45 AM

Hardly =p I suck as FC or better .. i have gotten more people killed as one then i have killed myself solo and in small gangs. I am kinda an expert on sucking FC's. Thank god i have a couple of friends who are more then decent FC's.
I am more the small gang guerillia type of player, but i have fought in fleets more then enough and tbh i think remedial is something the world doesn't need so i wont support stuff like that. And while a lot of the goons are decent guys i still am under the impression that most of them have questionable humor and are more then a bit sick in the head.

ZyrKx · 08-01-2006, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larion

Another thing about BoB is.. that they probably pay less for their T2 stuff then you pay for your T1 stuff since they completly control the market there. They pay 2 mil for AF's for example.

This is one of the most important factors that make BoB the top alliance, they may not have much more skilled players than other alliances, but in terms of industry and logistics they are far ahead.

Kiroy · 08-01-2006, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZyrKx

This is one of the most important factors that make BoB the top alliance, they may not have much more skilled players than other alliances, but in terms of industry and logistics they are far ahead.

Ya - they pay nothing for most of there t2 stuff. They have dedicated carebears that just chill in 0.0 and mine, msn run and do complexes just about risk free. I bet the inflow of cash every week is astonishing.

Gurgeh · 08-01-2006, 08:19 AM

I just went through BoB killboard, countless of incursus, atron and merlin kills ... and 1 HAS and 4 or so BS killed in 3 days ? So well getting this kind of killratio against t1 frig fleet is not really impressive. Even for a newbie farming for a t1 frig takes like 5mn top.
Actually if goon destroy just 1 BoB pod that might make the lose even for 1 week. BoB do not just use nicely fitted ship, but they also have quite a lot of people using pirate implants in pvp compared to other alliances, so if you get a chance, go for the pods ! Low grade pirate implant = 500M, +3 set 2 or 3B.

Larion · 08-01-2006, 08:26 AM

Is it really that hard to explain ?
Ok i will try it again... The ISK destroyed figures only make sense versus someone you can actually drain. The ammount of ships goonswarm would have to destroy to make bob even consider it a bit annoying are so much higher then they currently achieve that it is completly out of question.

The figures you have to consider in this war is ISK value accumulation versus ISK destroyed for both.

like:

ISK acc.(BoB) / ISK lost(BoB) versus ISK acc.(GS) / ISK lost(GS)

and looking at this formula and considering the losses goonswarm looks bad.... very very very bad.

Gurgeh · 08-01-2006, 08:35 AM

Even the most newbie players can replace effortlessly t1 frig. Goon doesn't have to destroy a single bob ship to win actually. They just have to roam in gang of 50 : 100frigs for a few months and you'll get bored even with 1000 to 1 kill ratio.
Cost of a war is not just the lose you sustain, but also the manpower you allocate to it. If BoB think it's a good move to go full force for months against a bunch of newbies in t1 frigs, well I think some other people will rejoice.
Beside considering the losses Goon had been able to sustain during the war in XZH 4 BS in 3 days is not even worth being called "nothing".

Larion · 08-01-2006, 08:40 AM

We will see i guess. Fact is everyone expected a lot more from the goons in terms of fighting back.
I am really unsure how long goonswarm will be able to keep the morale up and how long it takes till members fade away and join proper alliances.
Questioning BoB's morale is kinda funny since they have never been bored shooting at newbs the last months and just shooting more newbs wont get them bored ever...
BoB have rarely been involved in anything but gankfests in the past and they tend to enjoy it a lot.

08-01-2006, 02:17 AM	#736 (permalink)
Wodin Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,915 +0 Internets	Well, today's comedy was a full rack of wardecs(BoB, D2, RZR, RISE, and IRON to go with the three corps already decced on us(AXE/Exuro Mortis/some random noobcorp)) and people are rampaging around Empire in frigate gangs blowing stuff up and pretty much ignoring S-U. The current sentiment seems to be that a) we know BoB are better PvPers than us(better SP/ships) and b) they waltzed in and entrenched themselves when nobody was home, so why put lots of effort into breaking back into a system and fighting pitched battles when there's silly fun to be had. It's just decompression from the stress of the XZH campaign, really. I suspect that we'll be back soonish and there are all sorts of plans afoot, most of which will no doubt go horribly awry but at least be amusing and/or fun instead of stupid. BoB has done a very professional job of locking down Syndicate, and it's fun to take notes on what they're doing right and wrong. __________________ Wodin - Troll Rogue - Elitist Jerks - Mal'Ganis Last edited by Wodin; 08-01-2006 at 02:24 AM..

08-01-2006, 02:36 AM	#738 (permalink)
Gamblor Rocket Powered Robocop Jesus Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 557 -1 Internets	STOP POSTING. LARION> Last edited by Gamblor; 08-21-2006 at 11:36 AM..

08-01-2006, 03:59 AM	#741 (permalink)
Larion Does not post pictures for religious reasons! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 651 -51 Internets	I would really like you to explain what 200+ sniping range has as a benefit for you... unless you are sniping in low sec out of sentry range there is no point and no way this can help you in a fleet battle. You will still have the other dictating the range if your fleetcommanders are unable to lead their fleets. You can wtfrape any sniper fleet with a mixed fleet of gank bs,cruisers and frigates if you play smart. Alone thinking that you should play a sniper game with BoB is ridiculous. Why play on their terms? I have fought BoB myself long enough with mixed success and i know that they are nothing special compared to the other heavy pvping alliances, their only edge is their fleet commanders wich are tbh the best in eve. There are not many in eve that can compare with those. Single players skills are not really special within BoB. (especially not within BNC rofl...) Another thing about BoB is.. that they probably pay less for their T2 stuff then you pay for your T1 stuff since they completly control the market there. They pay 2 mil for AF's for example. And for morale... they wont care, they loose a lot all over eve everyday, their strengh is not that they have better skills or better pilots (even though they are good, at least some), their strengh lies in their supplies and the availiability of the T2 stuff ships and modules alike for prices that are ridiculously low. Last edited by Larion; 08-01-2006 at 04:02 AM..

08-01-2006, 05:45 AM	#744 (permalink)
Larion Does not post pictures for religious reasons! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 651 -51 Internets	Hardly =p I suck as FC or better .. i have gotten more people killed as one then i have killed myself solo and in small gangs. I am kinda an expert on sucking FC's. Thank god i have a couple of friends who are more then decent FC's. I am more the small gang guerillia type of player, but i have fought in fleets more then enough and tbh i think remedial is something the world doesn't need so i wont support stuff like that. And while a lot of the goons are decent guys i still am under the impression that most of them have questionable humor and are more then a bit sick in the head. Last edited by Larion; 08-01-2006 at 05:48 AM..

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08-01-2006, 02:19 AM	#737 (permalink)
Larion Does not post pictures for religious reasons! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 651 -51 Internets	Maybe you should really consider sorting out your "humor" and ... maaaayybe work a bit more consistent on the diplomatic table.. You guys could have had it so easy... Hope you guys don't give up completly though.. you where really close to being actually powerful and worth something alliance wise. I guess though as long as remedial is the "boss" or has anything to say you wont achieve much.

08-01-2006, 02:43 AM	#739 (permalink)
Larion Does not post pictures for religious reasons! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 651 -51 Internets	You are really underestimating them... and obviously you don't have much experience with the alliances. The new ships will be availiable to everyone... and those 30mil sp people will use it as well. (although i doubt that it even makes much sense, since range is not worth a damn if you can't get to it and then it doesn't matter what range for sniping since you have to be able to dictate your range anyways, but i guess you know that already or i hope you do. Without a better diplomatic agenda you guys are no way going to make it anywhere. You also need better fleet commanders since yours officially suck. I watched some of the stuff you guys did on a friends account and it was a horrible display of newbishness from the fleet commanders side. You don't loose your battles because BoB and others have more sp you loose because your fleet commanders have no fucking clue what they are doing.

08-01-2006, 05:02 AM	#742 (permalink)
Larion Does not post pictures for religious reasons! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 651 -51 Internets	Name Kills Losses BigMek Industries 0 0 Bulgarian Experienced Crackers 0 13 Crimson Corporation 0 0 Delta Council 0 0 Duragon Pioneer Group 3 47 Epsilon Financial Bureau 0 24 Gamma Squad 0 0 General Products Inc 0 9 GoonFleet 51 688 GoonWaffe 39 722 H. A. R. M. 0 2 Lightning Dynamics 0 1 Magellanic Itg 0 2 Pies of Wrath 0 0 Rho Squadron 0 0 Sigma Central Administration 0 0 The Forsakened Companions 13 59 The Swarm Overmind 0 0 The Theta Project 0 0 Visual I.D 1 52 These are the current figures of losses and kills GS versus BoB from the BoB killboard. Wich is one of the most accurate boards btw (BoB kicks out members for not posting killmails and i actually had that happen to a person i know so i know it is the most accurate one). Do you really think anyone would get bored or discouraged with these kinds of kill /loss ratios ???? Don't get me wrong, but you guys perform worse then i had every expected.

08-01-2006, 05:39 AM	#743 (permalink)
Kiroy CORP POR! Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,234 -6 Internets	Larion You should put in an application for Goonswarm CEO and win this war for em!

08-01-2006, 08:19 AM	#747 (permalink)
Gurgeh Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Paris Posts: 1,241 -1 Internets	I just went through BoB killboard, countless of incursus, atron and merlin kills ... and 1 HAS and 4 or so BS killed in 3 days ? So well getting this kind of killratio against t1 frig fleet is not really impressive. Even for a newbie farming for a t1 frig takes like 5mn top. Actually if goon destroy just 1 BoB pod that might make the lose even for 1 week. BoB do not just use nicely fitted ship, but they also have quite a lot of people using pirate implants in pvp compared to other alliances, so if you get a chance, go for the pods ! Low grade pirate implant = 500M, +3 set 2 or 3B.

08-01-2006, 08:26 AM	#748 (permalink)
Larion Does not post pictures for religious reasons! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 651 -51 Internets	Is it really that hard to explain ? Ok i will try it again... The ISK destroyed figures only make sense versus someone you can actually drain. The ammount of ships goonswarm would have to destroy to make bob even consider it a bit annoying are so much higher then they currently achieve that it is completly out of question. The figures you have to consider in this war is ISK value accumulation versus ISK destroyed for both. like: ISK acc.(BoB) / ISK lost(BoB) versus ISK acc.(GS) / ISK lost(GS) and looking at this formula and considering the losses goonswarm looks bad.... very very very bad.

08-01-2006, 08:35 AM	#749 (permalink)
Gurgeh Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Paris Posts: 1,241 -1 Internets	Even the most newbie players can replace effortlessly t1 frig. Goon doesn't have to destroy a single bob ship to win actually. They just have to roam in gang of 50 : 100frigs for a few months and you'll get bored even with 1000 to 1 kill ratio. Cost of a war is not just the lose you sustain, but also the manpower you allocate to it. If BoB think it's a good move to go full force for months against a bunch of newbies in t1 frigs, well I think some other people will rejoice. Beside considering the losses Goon had been able to sustain during the war in XZH 4 BS in 3 days is not even worth being called "nothing".

08-01-2006, 08:40 AM	#750 (permalink)
Larion Does not post pictures for religious reasons! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 651 -51 Internets	We will see i guess. Fact is everyone expected a lot more from the goons in terms of fighting back. I am really unsure how long goonswarm will be able to keep the morale up and how long it takes till members fade away and join proper alliances. Questioning BoB's morale is kinda funny since they have never been bored shooting at newbs the last months and just shooting more newbs wont get them bored ever... BoB have rarely been involved in anything but gankfests in the past and they tend to enjoy it a lot.