[EVE Online] Whoa.

[elrich]

Originally Posted by Gurgeh

OMG enemies in local ! quick must warp to a moon to be safe !!!

In Eve, stupidity costs.

I think this, above all other reasons, is why I love it.

[Tabris]

Interesting posts on this thread.

What are some of the risk vs. reward costs for losing in a PVP battle?

[Guiness]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Somebody had better tell the Goons that.

True, for all intents and purposes, Goonfleet/Goonwaffe's majority of pilots are less then 6 months old, and as of yesterday, not only are we the largest corporation in the game, but we now belong to the third largest Alliance in the game.

CCP developer's have specifically given a shout out regarding how they will be curious to see where Goonfleet is in a year, and how well the model that we are following should help to detract from the adage that there is no way to catch up in eve if you are not sitting on 10 to 12 million SP's.

While Goonfleet is the extreme of example, I can assure you, if PvP is your thing, get with a corporation that is like minded, and do your job based off of your SP level, as in, if you are a month or so in, fuck yeah you are going to be a tackler in a frigate, but the lessons learned there prepare you for the natural progression of your life as a pilot.

You are beginning to get the feel for transversal velocity, and how to work the ranges and distances. After you have cruised in to 7k on a Battleship(s) a few dozen times you begin to get comfortable with your role as a pilot, plus it's fun as fuck and most importantly, it is absolutely critical to a combat operations success most of the time.

I like the migration path for the new pilot very much, although you are SP-wise a noob, your role is an important one.

[Gurgeh]

Originally Posted by Tabris

Interesting posts on this thread.

What are some of the risk vs. reward costs for losing in a PVP battle?

Reward : you get to loot wreckages, short term reward, but this is not very significant, especialy if you enemies are already broke from previous battles
The purpose of fighting is to control space and ressources (rare ores, good NPCs systems, complexes, conquerable stations). There are few instant reward in eve, all you do has long term implications which decide whether you'll have to mine veld in jita to make money, or get several hundreds millions isk an hour running complexes or even... doing nothing and just get money from people using stations and space you own (it can be VERY large amount of money).

Risk is to lose your ship, a decently fitted BS is worth 100M-150M to lose, an average, fairly skilled player will typically get 20M an hours in 0.0. Though if you don't have access to nice 0.0 systems, it can get down to 10M or even 5M in empire. You also risk losing your pod and implants, a +3 set is worth around 200M. Beside if you are attacking ships are not easy to replace, you don't just need to pay the cash and poof you get a ship, in hostile 0.0 territory getting a new BS might take 4 or 5hours just in travel and fitting and you are very likely to lose it on the way if you decide to travel alone.

You know you're winning a war when your enemies stop bringing T2 fitted BS and T2 supports but bring T1 fitted BS and cheap support, at this point it just get worse, if they already lost fight with decent ship, they won't be able to scratch you with T1 stuff.

[frott]

Originally Posted by Etruscus

I agree. The complainers remind of the people who reside in Plato's cave.

For years and years all we could do is grind. Now, we don't have to and people can do nothing but still see the old shadows on the wall.

I want a game that allows me to do something solo and not have to rely on a "corporation" at/past a certain point. This is true in EVE, WoW, every MMORPG I've played. Unfortunately the trick there would be to somehow not allow group dynamics to give advantage to those utilizing them, OR, at the very least, minimize the group dynamics to a small handful of people so that hitting the "maximums" isn't a monumental feat and leads you to *not being able to persue certain content.*

The dissociation is mind-numbing, in MMORPGS that attempt to balance solo / small group content alongside big-group dynamics.

As for grinding, "time unlocking" skills is probably the most efficient way of saying POWER = TIME in a mmorpg that relies on monthly subscriptions to survive. They just cut out the idea that you have to work during that time.

I'm sure there are folks feeding accounts in EVE that essentially do nothing but level up skills for months and months.

And that, for me, makes it rather easy to dismiss, leaving only the group politics and dynamics, which I don't really care about. I play that game in real life.

[Kuro]

Originally Posted by frott

I want a game that allows me to do something solo and not have to rely on a "corporation" at/past a certain point. This is true in EVE, WoW, every MMORPG I've played. Unfortunately the trick there would be to somehow not allow group dynamics to give advantage to those utilizing them, OR, at the very least, minimize the group dynamics to a small handful of people so that hitting the "maximums" isn't a monumental feat and leads you to *not being able to persue certain content.*

The dissociation is mind-numbing, in MMORPGS that attempt to balance solo / small group content alongside big-group dynamics.

As for grinding, "time unlocking" skills is probably the most efficient way of saying POWER = TIME in a mmorpg that relies on monthly subscriptions to survive. They just cut out the idea that you have to work during that time.

I'm sure there are folks feeding accounts in EVE that essentially do nothing but level up skills for months and months.

And that, for me, makes it rather easy to dismiss, leaving only the group politics and dynamics, which I don't really care about. I play that game in real life.

Anarchy Online acts a lot like this. The benefits for joining an org don't have a huge impact (Towers let you slide into better gear a little easier, but anything's obtainable without towers). There are monsters in the game that you need to raid (Alien Invasions, Pandemonium), but the players on the servers have set up chatbots to organize raids that don't require you to be guilded, just registered to the raid bot. You could, conceivably, level to to the cap and get every item in the game, raid your heart out, without ever adding a single person to your friends list or joining a guild.

[frott]

Originally Posted by Kuro

Anarchy Online acts a lot like this. The benefits for joining an org don't have a huge impact (Towers let you slide into better gear a little easier, but anything's obtainable without towers). There are monsters in the game that you need to raid (Alien Invasions, Pandemonium), but the players on the servers have set up chatbots to organize raids that don't require you to be guilded, just registered to the raid bot. You could, conceivably, level to to the cap and get every item in the game, raid your heart out, without ever adding a single person to your friends list or joining a guild.

Unfortunately I had tried it out during the non-launch? Trial launch? I could barely play and it seemed to last for months and I never really gave it another chance.

[Gurgeh]

Originally Posted by frott

I want a game that allows me to do something solo and not have to rely on a "corporation" at/past a certain point(...) leaving only the group politics and dynamics, which I don't really care about.

Stop playing MMOs ? btw quite a few of the most (in)famous players in eve are solo players, or people that play in very small groups, Istvaann Tank CEO, Freewheeling, ... but of course they're not just average players that just want to log 2 hours after without ever talking to anybody but a NPC and be able to be top ranked on magelo, because you know, they used to be high end players, 5 years ago.

[Liringlas]

Originally Posted by Guiness

True, for all intents and purposes, Goonfleet/Goonwaffe's majority of pilots are less then 6 months old, and as of yesterday, not only are we the largest corporation in the game, but we now belong to the third largest Alliance in the game.

who did you join?

[frott]

Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Stop playing MMOs ? btw quite a few of the most (in)famous players in eve are solo players, or people that play in very small groups, Istvaann Tank CEO, Freewheeling, ... but of course they're not just average players that just want to log 2 hours after without ever talking to anybody but a NPC and be able to be top ranked on magelo, because you know, they used to be high end players, 5 years ago.

Or, conversely, start making MMOs that cater to "average players"?

I'm pretty sure a large part of the rabid success of WoW is the accessibility. We wouldn't have concepts such as the "level 60 brick wall" if there wasn't a radical paradigm shift in the requirements and means of progression (the point where the progression is essentially based on repeatable or large-group encounters).

So yeah, stop playing MMOs if you enjoy a game up until the point that progression means hitting your head against a wall with 39+ of your closest friends. ???

Holy shit I just realized I'm not hardcore enough for there to be a game model that meshes non-obsessive playing habits with a perpetual world on the internet!

[Lord Thanos]

I had fun playing EVE, I wished I had stuck around a bit longer, but there just wasnt much to do in the game

If you DO decide to play EVE, don't cancel your WoW account, you're gonna need it

To fly anything better than a Cruiser you'll have to wait days, weeks, and even months of real time while your character trains the skills

There is no power leveling your way out of skill training, sure you can cut down some of the learning time with learning skills, but it still takes several months to fly a Raven

So while you wait for that skill countdown till you can fly what you want, you can keep yourself busy with WoW

[Liringlas]

Originally Posted by Lord Thanos

I had fun playing EVE, I wished I had stuck around a bit longer, but there just wasnt much to do in the game

If you DO decide to play EVE, don't cancel your WoW account, you're gonna need it

To fly anything better than a Cruiser you'll have to wait days, weeks, and even months of real time while your character trains the skills

There is no power leveling your way out of skill training, sure you can cut down some of the learning time with learning skills, but it still takes several months to fly a Raven

So while you wait for that skill countdown till you can fly what you want, you can keep yourself busy with WoW

OR

you could learn about the game and realize you dont have to fly a pimped out BS to be usefull in pvp.

[Etruscus]

Originally Posted by Lord Thanos

To fly anything better than a Cruiser you'll have to wait days, weeks, and even months of real time while your character trains the skills

Yet more myths.

Based on your few words the only thing you can do after those sorts of skills is mine. That is it. Both applicable skillz and SP skills.

Eve isn't about the shinny. The shinny is candy.

I'm not a high SP charector, only 7.75M, but I can tell you I will only bring one ship to a PVP fight - the Megathron. That is it. I can only actually pilot something like 5 classes of ships, not even an AF, even though I could in less then an hour. I am a big believer in specialization.

The point is it takes a lot of time and effort to be able to know how to pilot your ship and become comfortable enough with all the other ships you may encounter to be able counter them properly.

I've got a guy in my corp who has less SP then me and can pilot three different race BSs. In the last three weeks of PVPing I have lost 0 BSs. He has lost two or three.

Revisiting your quote, I think you mean "bigger" not "better". A properly fitted Ewar cruiser in anything more then 1v1 warfare will make or break a battle assuming the pilot has half a brain.

There is little to no reason why a new pilot should jump from a frig to a cruiser to a bc to a bs. I did this because I did not know any better. Looking back, I probably still would have gone frig > cruiser > BS (because when I first started playing there was no mining barges). and focused my PVP skills on frig > interceptor route. Losing a 16M ship in PVP is nothing. Losing a 96M BS without insurance, and newer players rarely insure their BSs, is painful.

[Guiness]

Originally Posted by Liringlas

who did you join?

Initally there was only Goonfleet when I joined back in January, but due to our recruitment drives, there has been one since the one I joined, our numbers swelled past 1000, which at present, CCP does not have the skill in place (sovereignty) to allow a CEO to invite pilots into the corp past 1000 members. So our CEO created GoonWaffe and we split the corp pilots randomly between the two corps. But we still wardec and get wardec and operate as if we were still one corp.

Once CCP puts the Sovereignty skill in, we will reform back into just Goonfleet.

[Liringlas]

oh no, i knew all that. i ment which alliance, but i see thats OSS. i was just lazy and didnt want to log in at the moment =P