Another lead designer leaves sigil.

[Zuuljin]

Originally Posted by Kaxmax

I've pretty much accepted the fact that anyone talking about easy/hard death penalties when comparing WoW and EQ is not talking about endgame raiding. WoW is far harsher than EQ (post Kunark at least, and certainly post cleric rez-stick), unless you break down and buy gold from IGE.

My comment was more general. I dont even play WoW, I play EQ2, and in EQ2 item decay is pretty worthless. A few gold to repair, but nothing spending about 15 mintues killing mobs wont pay for.

I will still say though that it may be severe money wise in WoW, but nothing holds a candle to actually losing all your gear on corpse decay that EQ1 had. Now of course you have to choose a time frame for all of this. In the begining there was no corpse summon. I personally lost a corpse in Fear before kunark. Pissed? You betcha. After corpse summon, it was still pretty pricey at what, 100pp a corpse? Whole raid would go through thousands of PP quick. Then mini coffins came about, lessened the cost even more, then finnaly PoP graveyards. Noone will deny EQ1 is being dumbed down now. But ill stand by my original statement, that for most of EQ1's life, death was serious fucking buisiness compared to todays MMORPGS.

Side note: according to that other EQ1 fanfaire thread, they are revising the death system to be less severe. And adding in EQ2 like regen. Give it another year or so and EQ1 will be just as "easy" as all the new games.

[kasey]

Originally Posted by Zuuljin

Who fucking cares. Get this thread back on track.

haha can this thread be more on track?

Anyways, wtf you knew highpriest strats.I guess thats why the ragingdarkfury and another undefinable number of people had their noses pressed flat as a flunder against the wall to highpriest room while we killed it.That was around 29 mort and 130+ people watching how daddy is doing it(Kheops for the most part was a genius at figuering it all out on his own.He was the secret weapon.Why on earth was i so pissed at him back then.Hmm guess it was jealousy).Its funny how being in a certain guild skews your view totally.Morta wtfbbq owned the whole server back and forth back and forth till VhexThall where many of us got burned out.(and kheops quit)We had to give like 5times the dkp at some point to even make them log on.

While we were learning VT in the first stages and cockblocked Darkwind and everyone else on Emperror to a point where you brought 120 people and made us GM-roll and were so pissed that you would train and ninjaloot even stuff out of the CursedCycle on us.Then you allied with Raging fury.From that point the tides turned and Ragingfury+Darkwind was the top.At that point we could hardly field 30-40players and got lazy to raid while you were a monster machine of epic proportions hungry and motivated.Then the leaders in morta decided its better to flee from Antonius Bayle instead of standing and fighting.Now that i cleared this up i think we are done for awhile and ppl are tired of hearing us clowns bragging .Wish we recruited forcefully back then ,but thats another story RIGHT rindain and officer staff? =)

Hai, <3

P.S.:
That Cursed was VERY emberrasing for Darkwind( we got prenerf down to 30% and it was def doable if more clerics not only Canadwen and me used DA/DB/targetDA to clear their aggro.Yes it used to wipe aggro and got nerfed.Think at one point everyone in the raid died 5 times roflmao.Now that is zerg.Most funny thing was when the golden halfing Gamemaster then popped up and send our rogues teasing tells about that kickass 16dd rogue dagger which we just wasted.Bestest GM evah.We once kiled him even and he once roleplayed pirating when the ships once more didnt work... eeeeep breathe...kasey breathe).God i am like an old man who cant stop blabbering!... <3 .....>:-)

wooot woot old times gettin me excited /bounce

[Malakie Torsade]

Originally Posted by Zuuljin

But ill stand by my original statement, that for most of EQ1's life, death was serious fucking buisiness compared to todays MMORPGS.

Yeah, right. How many times did you seriously hear about people losing their corpses, especially outside of Fear? Yours and... how many else? For the most part, even in the earlier years, corpse recovery consisted of /who all necro, invis/stealthing, or asking for help from others. Could it be more time intesive back in the "old days?" Sure. Hardcore? No.

And just so it's clear, I'm not arguing that WoW's death penalty is hardcore, as it is a far cry from that. Overall, both EQ and WoW cost you a somewhat sizeable portion of time if you die. How you deal with it in EQ (sitting around waiting for the Rogue to pull your corpse or for the cleric to rez you) vs in WoW (grinding money later solo or in instances) it simply different.

As for making money raiding, it's possible since Menion was a Rogue and could Vanish off bad attempts in the learning stages. Of course, they "fixed" that...

PS : I heard a lead designer left Sigil... any truth to that?

[Neric]

Originally Posted by kasey

That was around 29 mort and 130+ people watching how daddy is doing it.

That wasn't my fault. I showed them how to kill The Cursed with 30 guys, but Thalor insisted to wipe with 140...because "our warriors are too stupid to hold aggro". Back then I thought he was joking...

Its funny how being in a certain guild skews your view totally.

Believe me, I would have preferred to do this with Morta, but it wasn't to be. Since your officers didn't want to agree on a rotation, the conflict was inevitable. Bad judgement once again. Instead of just losing a few turns, they lost it all.

Then you allied with Raging fury.From that point the tides turned and Ragingfury+Darkwind was the top.At that point we could hardly field 30-40players and got lazy to raid while you were a monster machine of epic proportions hungry and motivated.Then the leaders in morta decided its better to flee from Antonius Bayle instead of standing and fighting.

Yes, and all of that because Tatajana refused to accept that it was wrong for her as an officer to intentionally train a guildmate to get a Luclin shard for herself (even if it was a moron like Sandokann)...that incident caused the chain reaction which lead to my departure after all. Who could imagine this?

[Cybsled]

But ill stand by my original statement, that for most of EQ1's life, death was serious fucking buisiness compared to todays MMORPGS.

As I said before, corpse loss became an illusion the second they revamped Splitpaw, but even before then it was so damn rare is was almost a non-factor.

Most dungeons had almost no risk of corpse loss since they were camped 24/7. The most abandoned high level area usually was live-side frogs, but it was a breeze to CR.

Hell, most of the early encounters had such easy CR anyone could do it. Nagafen didnt see invis for MONTHS. CR took all of 5-8 minutes unless some dude's invis popped at a bad time and he killed the CR team. Fire giants had such a long respawn time that they were a non-issue. If the zone crashed and they respawned, the GMs/Guides were all but forced to assist in CR since the wipe resulted from an in-game bug ;p

The riskiest zone was POF, but even that became trivial once the no-mob safespot was discovered. Couple flopping monks and a vox stick, voila! Hell, worse case scenario you could force a zone crash and it would spawn empty (a change which they implemented because crashing the zone was used for marathon farm sessions before). Would screw you out of a farm session for the day, but it allowed for easy CR + raid placement for the next day (camp a cleric).

There was only risk if you had no friends or a guild, in which case one has to wonder wtf you would be doing anywhere near said risk areas.

[Kaxmax]

I never once lost a corpse in EQ, and I never had any fear of losing a corpse, even early in the game's life. It was a complete non-factor to me.

The only thing either game's death penalty did is waste my time. In EQ I could watch TV while waiting for my raid to rez, in WoW I actually have to pay attention while farming gold.

edit: and for the record, I think both mechanics are retarded.

[Soygen]

I lost a corpse in like phase 1 or 2 of the beta. I went into Sol A with my Necro and fell into lava or something. Nobody was really high enough to get my corpse, so I said f it and started over as a monk. That was the only corpse I lost.

The "danger" of EQ wipes was the potential to lose hours of wasted time recovering. That danger was lessened with every expansion. As a non-raider in WoW, I don't really care when I die and even use death to my advantage on some stuff. If I was raider, I would probably just end up buying gold from the Chinese Mafia to cover repairs. Gold is pretty cheap, right?

[Slick Willey]

Originally Posted by Zuuljin

I personally lost a corpse in Fear before kunark.

You are the first person I have ever heard of that lost a corpse and all their gear in EQ. Congratulations!!

(And I started playing on Rodcet Nife in May 1999).

[Merauk]

Originally Posted by Cybsled

The riskiest zone was POF, but even that became trivial once the no-mob safespot was discovered. Couple flopping monks and a vox stick, voila!

Early wipe outs in POG were a bit dicey.

[Eomer]

I fucking hated those insta aggro assholes, made an otherwise fun exp zone a total pain in the ass!

[Fadaar]

Originally Posted by Merauk

Early wipe outs in POG were a bit dicey.

Seriously, fuck Protectors.

[Duppin]

Originally Posted by Zarcath

I think the thread topic should be changed to "guild drama from 4 years ago in case you didn't care about it back then but now have a morbid fascination for the comings and goings of Neric."

This 4 year old guild drama is more interesting than where this thread would've gone otherwise, anyway.

And considering all the evidence we have, I'm much more likely to believe that Meric is a tool than the people coming out to defend him.

[Venjenz]

Originally Posted by Fadaar

Seriously, fuck Protectors.

No....fuck those shitass little Thifling motherfuckers that had 3 gajillion hitpoints and hit for 1 point a pop. I did two complete PoG raids that involved dropping Tunare, and I never went back to that zone because of those two fucking mobs that took longer to kill than the rest of the zone. Probably the reason I hated Luclin bosses so much was because they brought back memories of those two mobs.

Luclin endurance matches ftl.

[Weritech]

Originally Posted by Malakie Torsade

Yeah, right. How many times did you seriously hear about people losing their corpses, especially outside of Fear? Yours and... how many else? For the most part, even in the earlier years, corpse recovery consisted of /who all necro, invis/stealthing, or asking for help from others. Could it be more time intesive back in the "old days?" Sure. Hardcore? No.

Haha, when did you start playing EQ?

If you were a top in player in the early months of EQ and your group died trying to do some deep LGuk there was NO ONE capable of bailing you out.

Either you found a way to fight back to your stuff or you didn't get it back, period. It was common practice to have a set of backup gear for just those situations, gear worse than the primary set of bronze armor, spiked collars and GZs that people were rocking well into the 40s at the time.

I hate to talk about games like this but, that shit was no joke and comparing it to WoW is beyond absurd.

[Weritech]

Originally Posted by Slick Willey

You are the first person I have ever heard of that lost a corpse and all their gear in EQ. Congratulations!!

(And I started playing on Rodcet Nife in May 1999).

Rodcet Nife wasn't an original server. It was a place for original players to get a fresh start in order to race and claim victories like "First Ebon Blade on the server!"