Another lead designer leaves sigil.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Gieve

This is an interesting thought - perhaps what the MMO industry needs is some fresh blood? Maybe new ideas are what we need now. Brad's still at the helm, tho, so... still going to be old school driven.

The MMO industry doesn't need fresh blood. They just need to stop giving the idiots that can't come up with any good ideas lead designer positions.

[Zawicki]

Originally Posted by Smed

you don't work at an airline or anything do you?

Let me point out this:

What you are comparing is apples and oranges.

An airline, even a small one will have hundred(s) working at it. What the poster is referring to by his post is probably a closer comparason to Sigil. Figure this, if the company he works for has only had a handful of people leave(in one form or another) over a few years, the chances are the number of people working for that company are small...I'd say probably less than 100. With Brad saying that Sigil has 95 employees, the posters comparason is probably much more valid.

Yes, I realize that you had your little smiley on the end of your post, but your post in itself goes to show how some of you game designers blow things up or change the view to suit your needs. There has been numerous occasions where the playerbase has been upset over changes(someone being let go/quitting) and the designers/head honchos of the game going "but we don't see a problem"(there are thousand of other features, and 5 other features that you can use instead of the one we nerfed).

When the fanbase of a game notices a somewhat big change to a company(IE a game designer that we know has worked on another game, and contributed a good portion to that game) we are naturally alarmed. We are even more alarmed when the company that is producing the "next big thing" has a limited number of employees, and what could be viewed as a "key" guy leaves...
Well the fanbase is going to notice, and be thinking "WTF is going on to make this guy leave".

Brad coming here and posting about it is only him trying to put a PR spin to Poe leaving. It may have been good terms, but the fact is it alarmed the fanbase...enough to where Brad came here to do "damage control" and dampen what the average fan will think over Poe leaving.

[Gnome Eater]

His post is making fun of the fact that airlines are heavily subsidized and unionized so firing/hiring are extremly slow.

There are plenty of meaningful things to question people over, why do people pick the most insane semantical points?

[Braen]

Cause it is Smed and people love tearing into him for anything and everything they can think of.

[Zawicki]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

His post is making fun of the fact that airlines are heavily subsidized and unionized so firing/hiring are extremly slow.

There are plenty of meaningful things to question people over, why do people pick the most insane semantical points?

I was just pointing out how people in his type of position tend to dwell on the "what is not wrong with my decision" rather than what the majority see as wrong. In this case...what he sees as not wrong is "just one person leaving" when the vast majority(fanbase) sees - Lead designer Poe gone. You talk semantics...There ya go.

[Gnome Eater]

Originally Posted by Zawicki

I was just pointing out how people in his type of position tend to dwell on the "what is not wrong with my decision" rather than what the majority see as wrong. In this case...what he sees as not wrong is "just one person leaving" when the vast majority(fanbase) sees - Lead designer Poe gone. You talk semantics...There ya go.

His point is that he was making a tongue in cheek joke. You are reading way too fucking much into it, jesus.

I have my own beef with several of his decisions, but I think that's an absolutely retarded reading of his quote.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Qhue

I spoke to Lawrence Poe on a couple of occasions over the years and I can tell you that he DID know his stuff, I just simply disagreed with him on almost every single topic.

The principle area in which we disagreed was in spell mechanics and how magic should work in EQ (and later Vanguard). His was a very utilitarian approach to spell design or the sort seen in World of Warcraft where spell does X damage and the next version of that spell does X+Y damage and otherwise remains exactly the same. He refused to accept the principle tennent of game design that the system has to mesh with the content in order to produce a viable and enjoyable game experience. It wasn't until he left the position of spell designer for EQ, for example, that mobs stopped resisting magic nearly 100% of the time. His spreadsheet showed that only a few pecent of mobs resisted 100% of the time and so he deemed there to be no problem...despite that those few pecent of mobs in the game happened to be nearly every mob in Temple of Veeshan at the time.

This is an interesting example. I remember the days when my necromancer could not do any spelldamage on mobs because they resisted everything (not just magic). If the guy was just a spelldesigner it wasn't all his fault though. It was mostly the fault of the content designers or the guys responsible for dragons unless he did that job also.

Basically a red dragon should resist fire and a white dragon should resist ice, a green dragon should resist poison and a brown dragon should resist disease and all of them should resist magic*. That cuts out certain lines of spells, but all the caster classes should remain playable, because they should all have at least 2 lines of spells anyways. Every schoolboy knows such things, so it's just another area where one can only wonder how these guys could mess it up.

If you describe him as stubborn and unable to realize that something was wrong, then he was indeed unqualified for this position. Every guy in a leading position should be able to do an objective review of his own work and make the neccessary adjustments. Since nobody controlls the leaders, they better be able to control themselves.

*one could also reserve resist magic only for golden dragons, which could also lead to interesting hybrid scenarios with a red-golden dragon.

[Quineloe]

Basically a red dragon should resist fire and a white dragon should resist ice, a green dragon should resist poison and a brown dragon should resist disease and all of them should resist magic*.

and a skeleton should be immune to arrows and daggers.

[Aethn Anvel]

This thread might actually be a record. The CEO's of two MMO companies posting in the same thread. Why do we never see the CEO or even management from Blizzard post in the public?

As for reasons why people quit or are fired. I believe being a California company, that it would actually be illegal for either company to state publicly one way or another, according to California Labor laws, the disposition of a former employees reasons for leaving unless the employee gives permission. When I hire a new person I can only ask them to verify information the applicant provides. In some states I cant even ask the former company if they would hire that person again or not.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

and a skeleton should be immune to arrows and daggers.

lol, true!

[Guiness]

vanguard beta shook my faith in vanguard.

The game is in late stage beta 2 in what Brad has made clear will be an extensive full beta cycle before release (I'm thinking about decyphering the fing Rosseta Stone in the meantime)

Comments like that drive me up the wall, I have no idea if VG is gonna be the omgsecondcumming2mmosLOL or another failed attempt at recapturing something that is just not possible to recapture read: our early days of EQ1.

But I think blanket statements like that during early beta are a bit over the top.

[Zawicki]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

His point is that he was making a tongue in cheek joke. You are reading way too fucking much into it, jesus.

I have my own beef with several of his decisions, but I think that's an absolutely retarded reading of his quote.

You see it your way, I see it mine. Then we agree to disagree? Fair enough.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Guiness

But I think blanket statements like that during early beta are a bit over the top.

I think people can recognize the difference between testing the pre-version of a Ferrari and testing the pre-version of a VW Beetle pretty well. With a bit of experience in the genre you can see what's coming....

[frott]

This thread needs a whole bowl of stfu.

Design plans and implementation strategies don't require hand-holding.

[Guiness]

Originally Posted by Neric

I think people can recognize the difference between testing the pre-version of a Ferrari and testing the pre-version of a VW Beetle pretty well. With a bit of experience in the genre you can see what's coming....

I agree with you on that, I was coming more from the point of at the stage of beta where some guys faith was shaken, to use your anology, I'm not sure that the pre-version was not very far past "yeah its got four wheels and a steering wheel stage.

Everyone is intitled to their opinion, but some of the guys that quoted the first quote and did the QFT, are some people that actually have some clue about the genre, and I'm assuming have/had beta access, I fail to understand why they have thrown up their hands and thrown a big fuck it on it this soon into the game.

Seeing that VG is the last great hope for our genre for the next few years. /irony