Another lead designer leaves sigil.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

We don't need tweaks in 'every' area, and given how long we've been in development, we've certainly taken less time to get how far we have (of which you know very little, not working here, nor being a tester) relative to our competitors and for a lot less money too. Why? Because we've used our experience in the past making these games to be more efficient, to implement a production methodology that is iterative and that makes sense, and because we know what a beta is for and why a long period of beta testing as opposed to staying too long in a pure development phase and then rushing through a beta period at the very end, starting it later as opposed to earlier, is a far superior approach to MMOG game development in general.

Don't worry, I don't need you to write about Vanguard. You should have figured this out already.

Let's look at the facts. You have taken less time than the competition because you made use of your previous experience? Are you counting the time between the beginning of the project and going into Beta or do you honestly want to compare the stages of the projects after a certain amount of time? Besides that, you can stuff your argument about production costs. This is not the Microsoft board and people here give a shit about your expected net profit. The folks reading this are your customers and they care about the quality of the product and not how much it took you to produce it. We don't judge by efficiency, we judge you by the outcome.

Also, what is left from your previous experience in terms of gameplay? Where is the overlay? If the "reports" are true, and judging by the growing numbers I have reason to believe they are, your gameplay sucks. That's the main reason why you have to tweak stuff after all. All those years spend working on ideas for gameplay could basically went right down the drain and you are trying to hang on and defend them, because not doing it would destroy the rest of what is left from your reputation. Well, you don't have a choice anyways, because it's way too late to change the core of the game.

As for NDAs which you apparently also don't understand as per your response to Oloh above, I'll leave it to him to try to explain to you if he, by some strange chance, is also in the mood to feed trolls like I am these evening

I probably understand NDAs much better than you - I have a degree in law after all - and my statement for Oloh was obviously meant in a sarcastic way. You would be foolish to drop the NDA, because the hype about your "next generation game" would burst like a soap bubble it is.

Last but not least, there would have been much less trolls in the first place if Vanguard would have been the kickass game it was announced to be. How could you even dare to compare this ******** with EQ from retail to Velious? That was as close to blasphemy as one could get in this business!

[MaximusDrake]

To Utnayan specifically...

Honestly, I wish I knew who your "sources" in beta were cause I'd love to chat with the rejects myself. I personally have been playing beta for several months now and will personally tell you that most of your "information" is far from correct. I wish I could elaborate but I'm not an NDA breaking fucktard like the dumb shit friends that pumped you with false information. Me and several of my static group friends in beta just got turned on to this thread and we all will vouch for your ignorant stupidity as soon as the NDA is lifted. That'll be a while I'm sure but I'm willing to bet your sorry ass will still be around, if you haven't been booted from these forums by then. You are obviously a smart guy but you are also a misinformed twit loaded with blanks walking into a military defended facility.

Talk to your "beta friends" about their information and how correct it is. Most of us that are not willing to break NDA are pretty much laughing at your stupidity, you mindless puppet.

[Cinge]

Originally Posted by MaximusDrake

To Utnayan specifically...

Honestly, I wish I knew who your "sources" in beta were cause I'd love to chat with the rejects myself. I personally have been playing beta for several months now and will personally tell you that most of your "information" is far from correct. I wish I could elaborate but I'm not an NDA breaking fucktard like the dumb shit friends that pumped you with false information. Me and several of my static group friends in beta just got turned on to this thread and we all will vouch for your ignorant stupidity as soon as the NDA is lifted. That'll be a while I'm sure but I'm willing to bet your sorry ass will still be around, if you haven't been booted from these forums by then. You are obviously a smart guy but you are also a misinformed twit loaded with blanks walking into a military defended facility.

Talk to your "beta friends" about their information and how correct it is. Most of us that are not willing to break NDA are pretty much laughing at your stupidity, you mindless puppet.

Go go devils advocate, but you are breaking the NDA

[Gnome Eater]

Originally Posted by Neric

Also, what is left from your previous experience in terms of gameplay? Where is the overlay? If the "reports" are true, and judging by the growing numbers I have reason to believe they are, your gameplay sucks.

You are asking Brad McQuaid what is his experience in terms of designing MMORPG and how it applies to MMORPG's? Hi?

The 'reports' if they can be treated as such are by people who are too unscrupolous to take an NDA they signed seriously. What difference does it make at all how the game is now? You don't have to purchase the game until it releases, what change does it make to with-hold judgement until then?

That's the main reason why you have to tweak stuff after all. All those years spend working on ideas for gameplay could basically went right down the drain and you are trying to hang on and defend them, because not doing it would destroy the rest of what is left from your reputation. Well, you don't have a choice anyways, because it's way too late to change the core of the game.

The actual 'gameplay' is exactly what needs to be tweaked, to be fun and balanced. You cannot judge how fun a mechanic is, because you or anyone working on the project cannot be an impartial witness of their own work.

If you are told by reliable people that soandso part isn't fun, you change it to a way that is fun. A lot of times, the problem isn't with a mechanic, as much as of the implementation of the mechanic.

I probably understand NDAs much better than you - I have a degree in law after all - and my statement for Oloh was obviously meant in a sarcastic way. You would be foolish to drop the NDA, because the hype about your "next generation game" would explode like a soap bubble it is.

Again, you realize that this is an accusation to which there is absolutely no possible reply? Even if someone who is in beta wishes to disagree, they cannot.

Last but not least, there would have been much less trolls in the first place if Vanguard would have been the kickass game it was announced to be. How could you even dare to compare this ******** with EQ from retail to Velious? That was as close to blasphemy as one could get in this business!

Hello, he made Velious and original EQ, I'd say he is entitled to make the comparison?

I am not sure this rampant fanboyism is even deserved. There are idiots who make guilds for a game expecting to play it and recruit people ahead of time without even being in beta. People who tear the game apart, people who make 'fan-sites' without having ever seen the game in the hope that their work in the community gets them noticed and hired (hihi mobhunter, etc).

Is Vanguard going to be amazing, more fun than WoW, more lasting than EQ, more hardcore PvP than SB? No fucking clue, but trying to make up your mind from rumours through the grapevine is idiotic. Watch reliable reports, then make up your mind; I find both the idiots who already make guilds for the game saying it will kick ass and idiots who bash it based on what a few disgruntled testers say total retards who should die in a fire.

Me, I am cautiously optimistic. The people who are making this game made a game I enjoyed, which is enough to hold my attention. If the game is fun and complete at release, I will likely purchase it and play it with my friends if I am bored of WoW by then, if it isn't, I won't purchase it. Vote with your wallet, just only purchase it if the game looks like it appeals for you, but passing judgement through the reports of disgruntled law-breakers is hilariously stupid.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by MaximusDrake

To Utnayan specifically...

Honestly, I wish I knew who your "sources" in beta were cause I'd love to chat with the rejects myself. I personally have been playing beta for several months now and will personally tell you that most of your "information" is far from correct. I wish I could elaborate but I'm not an NDA breaking fucktard like the dumb shit friends that pumped you with false information. Me and several of my static group friends in beta just got turned on to this thread and we all will vouch for your ignorant stupidity as soon as the NDA is lifted. That'll be a while I'm sure but I'm willing to bet your sorry ass will still be around, if you haven't been booted from these forums by then. You are obviously a smart guy but you are also a misinformed twit loaded with blanks walking into a military defended facility.

Talk to your "beta friends" about their information and how correct it is. Most of us that are not willing to break NDA are pretty much laughing at your stupidity, you mindless puppet.

There is a good guy! He wants to defend the game with facts. Don't muzzle him.

[Gnome Eater]

Originally Posted by Neric

There is a good guy! He wants to defend the game with facts. Don't muzzle him.

It is ILLEGAL to do so. There's several people who would like to do this, but signed away their right to do so.

[MaximusDrake]

Originally Posted by Neric

Last but not least, there would have been much less trolls in the first place if Vanguard would have been the kickass game it was announced to be. How could you even dare to compare this ******** with EQ from retail to Velious?

I'm sorry, but did I miss something? Was to be? Has the game been released yet? I could of swore that Vanguard was still in later stage of Beta 2 (out of 4) last I checked. Beta 2 out of 4, meaning not finished. How would one compare a game that is not near completion to a previous game & 2 expansions? You can compare the intended final concept, not the the unfinished product it's self. Did you escape from some retard facility and gain access to a computer through the local library?

Obviously this dickless wonder has some inside information and not even inside people have. Please share exactly what ignorance lead you to make this comment, I'm dying to know.

[MaximusDrake]

Originally Posted by Cinge

Go go devils advocate, but you are breaking the NDA

Yes, saying one is in beta is breaking the NDA. However, compared the the rickshaw rejects that have graced this thread with their presence before me, I am a saint.

Look, I've been a member of these forums for years and I normally don't post unless it's worthy of a sticky like my previous work on WoW information that had to be deleted once the game was launched. So I am done and will leave it at that.

The morons on this thread don't deserve the attention of being called morons, any more so than they already have that is.

[Itzena]

And now you see the utter pointlessness of NDAs - if someone doesn't like your game, they'll break the NDA anyway. If someone does like your game, they'll keep quiet because they don't want to be booted.

Drop the NDA, Sigil.

[Braen]

/golfclap MaximusDrake

Here, Here!

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

You are asking Brad McQuaid what is his experience in terms of designing MMORPG and how it applies to MMORPG's? Hi?

I am not asking him, I know about his qualities as a designer and the results. I have so called first-hand-experience and that's why I am concerned about the success of the game.

The 'reports' if they can be treated as such are by people who are too unscrupolous to take an NDA they signed seriously.

Actually these people have a previous reputation for having reliable judgement. Maybe they just couldn't take it anymore and decided to give a shit on the NDA because it exactly turned out what it was supposed to be, a tool to cover up that the game sucks.

The actual 'gameplay' is exactly what needs to be tweaked, to be fun and balanced. You cannot judge how fun a mechanic is, because you or anyone working on the project cannot be an impartial witness of their own work.

Don't try to apply logic when it comes to fun. I may not be able to judge it yet, but the number of people who openly stated that the game is not "fun" to play despite the NDA stands for itsself.

Again, you realize that this is an accusation to which there is absolutely no possible reply? Even if someone who is in beta wishes to disagree, they cannot.

I have not looked at it from this side yet, so I encourage them to come back to this forum and post their opinion once the NDA got lifted, which they will do in any case. It was not my intention to play unfair tricks on them.

Hello, he made Velious and original EQ, I'd say he is entitled to make the comparison?

Sure he is, but if the game does not turn out to be like EQ retail through Velious - and it is obvious that it can't - then didn't he lie? I mean you don't need to be a genius to figure out that this game has nothing in common with the old EQ. Hands down, it couldn't be more obvious. The game is a non-instanced EQ2 clone with a different set of timesinks and all of that build around a combat engine with a level of complexity similar to an Atari VCS game. Note: This doesn't mean that it cannot appeal to a certain playerbase!

Is Vanguard going to be amazing, more fun than WoW, more lasting than EQ, more hardcore PvP than SB? No fucking clue, but trying to make up your mind from rumours through the grapevine is idiotic. Watch reliable reports, then make up your mind; I find both the idiots who already make guilds for the game saying it will kick ass and idiots who bash it based on what a few disgruntled testers say total retards who should die in a fire.

I would agree with you on that one if the situation wasn't a specific one. A while ago I made certain predicitions that the game couldn't be that good, judging from the info that was available around the E3. Back then people called me names for it. Ever since (despite many attempts by Sigil to improve the game), reports are rolling in almost on a daily basis confirming exactly what I predicted months ago. It's like reality meets assumption and that's why I am more than just conviced that my judgement wasn't wrong. The hill came to the prophet.

[Citten]

Originally Posted by Neric

Don't try to apply logic when it comes to fun. I may not be able to judge it yet, but the number of people who openly stated that the game is not "fun" to play despite the NDA stands for itsself.


Sure he is, but if the game does not turn out to be like EQ retail through Velious - and it is obvious that it can't - then didn't he lie? I mean you don't need to be a genius to figure out that this game has nothing in common with the old EQ. Hands down, it couldn't be more obvious. The game is a non-instanced EQ2 clone with a different set of timesinks and all of that build around a combat engine with a level of complexity similar to an Atari VCS game. Note: This doesn't mean that it cannot appeal to a certain playerbase!

QFT

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

It is ILLEGAL to do so. There's several people who would like to do this, but signed away their right to do so.

First of all, thats a misuse of the world "illegal". A contract is an agreement, not a law by itsself. Breaking it entitles the other side to chose certain actions. If the other side choses to ignore it, nothing will happen. It's not that the cops will go out and get him for it. It would actually surprise me if US law was any different from that.

Sigil can elect to unmuzzle him and allow him to post his opinion at any time.

[Yaguex]

Originally Posted by Tetrian

rawr!

Nice to see you slackers around - necro fuckers

Haha.

/wave old man, how you doing?



Yag.

[elrich]

To Brad:

Please do not feel required to post in defense of yourself and Vanguard when either Utnayan or Neric post one of their long winded, yet contrived and asinine posts attempting to slam it/you.

We have all read posts by these two many times before, and so it isn't news to us that these two are at best, what might be called 'attention whores'. No one here will take seriously what they say, and as such, I just wanted to let you know that there is no impetus for you to defend your game to them. Most people on this board understand that an unfinished game in beta is well, what beta is for, and will not be making wild unfounded judgements based upon the rantings of a few people who decided to break their NDAs.