Don the flame suits

[Rezz]

Someone mentioned it days ago in another thread, but instead of adding AAs or some other redundant crap, add long ass questlines that are pretty clearly marked Group, Solo, Raid that have periodic stat enhancements. Think of it like those 4 monsters you kill in the barrens, that permanently raise your spirit (I think, been awhile) by a point or so per turn in. Granted, spirit is still crap, but move that over to other areas. Perhaps you complete a quest that requires a piece off Magmadar, Baron Rivendare and Chromaggus, and it gives you 20 attack power. Sure, it seems like shit, but if you're a normal raider who farms shit like that, it's an added perk. But before you get the quest, you have to hand in a limited drop from Raggy, who drops 2-5 per kill or something. That's a raid example.

For a solo one, simply have it like a collect quest. Sure, it's like AAs and faction grinding, but it doesn't feel like one!

[Elerion]

Originally Posted by Jubee

What class did you happen to play in EQ, and to what time period? As a rogue, I SURE AS FUCK cared about being forced to group. The server was DPS heavy and I was forced (as an elemental geared rogue back when that meant something) to either take shit LCY PoD groups or sit in PoTranq with my thumb up my ass waiting for Rogue31409 to finally go the fuck to sleep and let me get his spot in PoFire.

While I agree that grouping should be superior to soloing in WoW (which it already is, unless you like soloing with a Training Sword of the Whale until you are level 30.) Saying that every class that didn't have the ability to solo in EQ didn't want to solo is retarded. Maybe you just didn't spend a hour LFG for every hour exping like I had too.

I was an enchanter, from Kunark to GoD. I experienced being almost completely unable to solo, and I experienced being one of the best soloers in the game (arguably best for "ability to pull off hard shit"). I realise people wanted to solo, but it wasn't a big issue, because except for some unbalanced classes, solo rewards were worse than groups. And I already said I didn't want forced grouping, I wanted advantaged grouping. Rogues should have been able to solo an AA in 2 hours when groups could do it in 1. That they weren't was unfortunate, and poor game design.

Grouping is in no way superior to soloing in WoW. The ideal speed levelling strategy for a non-twinked char is something like: Solo until 20-24, run instance for 2 hours so you can get weapon, solo for 10 levels, run instance for 2 hours so you can get weapon, solo for 10 levels, run instance for 2 hours so you can get weapon, repeat until 60. At 60 you can spend 10-20 hours grouping to get some basic gear, and from that point on you'll progress faster solo (unless you're one of the fucked classes I mentioned earlier) than in a PUG. Other than raiding, soloing is the most efficient method of advancement for most people.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by kasey

Because you declared it sux? I like them ,gives a real kickass player and little timmeh some room to seperate.

AAs are just there to make up for the lack of more interesting content at the level cap that doesn't require a raid. That's why they suck.



Forced Grouping vs lunchbreak playing?
pretty simple, take the best from both EQ and WoW. Allow people to get all the way up to the level cap outdoors killing easy mobs. but FFS, remove the blue and epic drops from outdoor mobs and quests that just involve outdoor killing. Have them drop many levels below the mob level (level 50 mob, killable by level 47 players reasonably, dropping low 40 greens at best)

Now in dungeons (and we need many more than just the few WoW offers us during level up) kick the green shit out. I'd rather get 2 blue random drops than 20 green disenchant / NPC items.
Bosses = blue and epic, always. Why the fuck does angerforge drop a level 51 2h axe with 43 dps?

It's so simple, you want people to group? Then don't reward solo grinding more than dungeon crawling. When at level 35 you get more exp for whacking Venture Co geomancers in STV than clearing out the scarlet monastery and you get to keep that random drop BOE Epic without winning the roll for it, of course most players will have no idea how to cast heals on other players when they hit 60.

[Ukerric]

Originally Posted by Rezz

collect quest. Sure, it's like AAs and faction grinding, but it doesn't feel like one!

I think the new EQ2 "AA" work like that.

One of my friend who's playing in EQ2 explained to me the newly introduced abilities. Basically, you have a 3rd xp bar (beside the adventure / tradeskill ones).

This xp bar cannot be grinded. You fill it only:

- When you complete specific quests
- When you discover new zones (bad move: all those levels 60 that have explored the entire world lose)
- When you kill for the first time (since the expansion) a named mob.

That's it.

[Dinian]

And it grows steadily as you gain adventure xp after you cap out level 70.

[kasey]

AA's are already a reason to revisit old content, just a different wording of yours . But that actually gives me a good idea , cap AA xp on certain spots?That would limit the amount of "reuse" on said old content but still give encourage to revisit and redo old stuff a few times,much better then it is now.

Which leads to another problem.If you have such a restriction you will create really ghey situations such as a scenario with half the group not wanting to go to spot a while the other half is already done with b and the healer cant progresss in either cause hes already maxed it out in both spots.To avoid this natural stupidy as a result of restrictions i would remove this restriction if you have someone in the group who can still get xp there.

I like it :PQuests and stuff to unlock AA rock as well but cost way more manpower to realize.Its "hard content" and cannot be randomly generated without lowering the quality too much.

P.S.:
I was in sebilis around 230948239084982398409238432984082349 times over the course of YEARS starting as level 48 enchanter being scared by entrance frogs on to pwning the whole zone and raiding/doing unintended stuff at the end of this period.Devs should start reproducing zones like that, it was an Insitution not a loot instance you turn on/off like the light in your room.

[holymight]

Originally Posted by Ukerric

- When you discover new zones (bad move: all those levels 60 that have explored the entire world lose)

They reset the discovery list for everybody at release so level 60s could go around rediscovering areas if they wanted to.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Let's face it, even if they -did- add AA's, nothing would change. You wouldn't want to grind with a random pug anymore then I already want to group with the fuckers already. You're not giving me an added incentive to group, you're just telling me now that in order to stay competative not only do I have to drop tons of cash on mats/repairs as well as time to do reps in dungeons...now I have to spend 4 hours killing Blackrock Sorcerers over and over again because if I do that enough, every 18 hours I can increase my mana regen by 1%!!1!eleven

Yay!

No, AA's aren't the answer.

If you need incentive to group in the first place it probably means..DUN DUN DUN...you don't like grouping! You just like not having to pay as much attention. Grouping in EQ meant I didn't have to quad, and not having to quad meant I could bust out my logitech extreme 3d pro, bind the auto-fire trigger to "Assist Tank, Sunstrike, Concussion Pants, Concussion Pants", tape that sucker down then kick my feet up on the table and watch Scrubs.

As for alternate paths of advancement other then item/levels...

Should you get certain bonuses for completing difficult quests/content? Sure. I fully believe that if you beat the 5 hour Nef run, everybody should get a 'manual' or 'scroll' or whatever that enhances a certain ability. Say for warriors it allows cleave to hit another target, priests it reduces the global cooldown on PW:S by .4 seconds, mages frost nova gains a 10% chance to interupt casting, etc...whatever.

Which is ultimately what I think they should replace exp grinding with to be honest. I'd much rather do a quest to kill Arugal for +5 int then spend two hours grinding off worgen. I'd much rather do SM Library for a +50 hp boost to flash heal etc...etc...

And hell, even for the people who absolutely -must- grind, if you kill 1000 orcs you gain a permanant 3% damage bonus against orcs. If you kill 1000 sprites, same thing. Etc...etc...etc...

And anybody who says we're just arguing semantics is a fucking moron and should shut their festering cockholster before they spew stupid all over the place.

[kasey]

Omens of War 1 group tribunals/Planes of Power tribunal without uber gear would rock for this case.