Don the flame suits

[dak]

I'm thinking this only means that mobs you can't fear, you can't do damage/recover life from now too. From what I understand you can Death Coil Nefarion now, he doesn't run, but you do damage/heal.

Currently when you death coil something fear immune it will not run, it will usually not get the debuff icon but you will get to heal/damage for about what a shadowburn does. (Yes, this includes stuff like Nef)

I use death coil all the time as a potion on a two minute cooldown (I am a SM/DS warlock...mana is meaningless to me). Seeing how that was the purpose of death coil prior to being bufffed I would be pissed if I no longer got a heal from raid mobs.

[Grimmlokk]

Any hunter who hasn't seen the writing on the wall about the shot normalization for a LONG time is a damn retard. If you really thought 5k three shot openers from 40 yards away was intended you haven't been paying attention. It's directly aimed at the slow crossbows out there which are way more out of whack than rogue/warrior weapons ever were. Level 22 crossbows outamaging epics and shit was *not* intended.

As for the Sweeping Strikes/Blade Flurry thing: It's either a bunch of shit or exactly as it should be. Hard to tell from reading. As it is right now whatever damage you do on the 1st target is directly translated to the second target. Completely ignoring his AC. Hit a warrior 1st and a caster 2nd, caster takes way less damage. Caster 1st war 2nd and the war takes way more than they should. If this makes it so each target is considered completely seperate and works off their own AC I'm fine with that. How it probably should be. HOWEVER the way it used to work was the 2nd mob would get a 2nd AC reduction on hits on top of the 1st mobs AC reduction. Which sucked ass and was stupid. If they go back to that I'll no longer be gruntled.

1. Slice and Dice: If you attempt to use this skill when your target is dead, you will get an error message. This skill cannot be dodged, parried or missed.

Well that's super and all. But that's not the fucking problem. Slice and Dice currently has an "invisible" cast time. It's not instant. If I hit SnD 1-3 seconds before a mob dies, chances are he'll be dead before it finishes "casting" and I'll get the stupid fucking No Target message. This is a known bug. Widely know. It's been brought to their attention. But to keep us from using CP's in the 2 seconds after a mob dies to get SnD up they completely fuck over the ability and are happy with that as a result.

6. Blind: this is now not considered a melee attack, and cannot be parried or dodged

Fuck yes. About fucking time. This has only been around since the first beta push after all. What, 18 months? Fuck hunters and their fucking 100% hit Scattershots. For some PVP rogues this little fix is gonna feel as nice as all the upcoming priest changes combined=P Me? I just wanna be able to dodge arrows like I'm supposed to....

And the warrior fear change. That's another one I can't beleive took so long to change. It's gonna suck for some encounters but I saw this one coming months ago. It just reinforces what I've been saying all along: They need to completely rework how spells and abilities work in PVP to be seperate from PVE. Limit int. shout in PVP to 5, that's fine. More than fine, chargefears were the gayest shit this side of consecrap shieldbombers. But leave it alone for PVE.

edit: And one last thing about the normalization. Boohoo Rhok is 2.9 and getting normalized to 2.8. Plenty of other viable end game ranges are faster. Every rogue end game dagger is 1.8 and sword 2.6. But they got normalized faster=P

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Grimmlokk

Any hunter who hasn't seen the writing on the wall about the shot normalization for a LONG time is a damn retard. If you really thought 5k three shot openers from 40 yards away was intended you haven't been paying attention. It's directly aimed at the slow crossbows out there which are way more out of whack than rogue/warrior weapons ever were. Level 22 crossbows outamaging epics and shit was *not* intended.

The level 22 crossbow thing is an extreme exageration. Also there's just as much bullshit for other classes going on in PVP. Cry more, newb.

It's a shitty change, but one necessary for their retarded itemization. I hope I get some PVE damage back somewhere though, it's hard enough to keep up with Rogues as is.

[boy-]

Originally Posted by Neppy

The warrior changes are pretty inconsequential IMO.
Hunters being normalized to 2.8 speed is a kick in the nuts for people with crossbow of smiting though.

What am I missing? I have chromaggus xbow, and with epic quiver its delay is 2.96. My calculations tell me that i'm losing a whopping 10.9 dmg on multi/aimed. That's hardly anything.

Seems to me to be a major upgrade for every other bow in existance, and only a very minor loss for xbow users. Either I'm missing something or people aren't considering haste at all in their pre-normalization comparisons.

edit: I just tested, and multishot (and I assume aimed as well) most definitely uses post-quiver speed for damage calculations. It seems that the level of the nerf on xbow is waay smaller than wow.com whiners make it sound like (40 dps, huh?)

[Pren]

Uh, I think the warrior shout change is a PVE change. I don't know about you guys, buy fankriss is going to be a hell of a lot harder for my guild when intimidating shout is limited. Far larger change than anything in PVP outside of alterac valley.

Druids losing the snare immunity while shifting is lame as hell, it exists during the global cooldown and is while your body is changing shape. Considering how 1.9 added artificial lag that takes me 2-3 seconds to shift back into a bear after 'instantly' healing myself because the 1.5 global cooldown doesn't refresh in 1.5 seconds, fuck them.

and the warlock bitching? please, you have everything. your class needs nerfs.

[Grimmlokk]

Originally Posted by Sean

The level 22 crossbow thing is an extreme exageration. Also there's just as much bullshit for other classes going on in PVP. Cry more, newb.

Outdamage *burst* I should have said. But the cry more newb was very original so I guess it was worth it. Nice nitpicking while still agreeing.

It going to be just as minor as the war/rogue normalizations ended up being. A lot of people will gnash their teeth and cry. They'll pull all sorts of "math" out of their asses to prove why this is the most unjust change in any game ever. And 3 months from now no one will even think about it. I bitched and moaned in my guildchat plenty when they were announced. And they went live and I don't think I really noticed any difference at all.

If you didn't see it coming once people realized these shots functioned similar to the nerfed war/rog abilities you are a fucking idiot. Plain and simple. Whether you think they're warranted or not is one thing, but acting(or being) surprised it happened is another.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Rogues
1. Slice and Dice: If you attempt to use this skill when your target is dead, you will get an error message. This skill cannot be dodged, parried or missed.

2. Sap: When sap is resisted, Lightning Shield will not break stealth.

4. Distract: this skill will no longer trigger Lightning Shield from Shamans.

5. Blade Flurry: The damages of the extra attacks will now be determined by the armor rating of the secondary target.

6. Blind: this is now not considered a melee attack, and cannot be parried or dodged.

#1 - Would it seriously be that god damn overpowered to let us go back to SnD'ing off the corpse? Really. It's the only half ass decent use of combo points there is and right now I have to horribly mis-time mine to make sure it gets up.

#2 - Huh? Maybe I'm misreading or this is a bad translation but what would the lightning shield matter? Resist = unstealth anyway.

#4 - Lol. Can't say it's ever happened to me but if that actually happens now, rofl. GJ horrible coding.

#5 - Sort of makes sense as long as damage on secondary target is capable of being increased as well as decreased. IE if my main target is warrior and I hit for 700, I currently off-hit the mage for 700 too, which should now increase? In the same way that if mage was my main target hit for 700 the warrior secondary would decrease.

#6 - THANK YOU MOTHER FUCKING GOD. Quite possibly the first legitimate rogue buff since .. ever.

Originally Posted by Grimmlokk

Well that's super and all. But that's not the fucking problem. Slice and Dice currently has an "invisible" cast time. It's not instant. If I hit SnD 1-3 seconds before a mob dies, chances are he'll be dead before it finishes "casting" and I'll get the stupid fucking No Target message. This is a known bug. Widely know. It's been brought to their attention. But to keep us from using CP's in the 2 seconds after a mob dies to get SnD up they completely fuck over the ability and are happy with that as a result.

I think there's more to it than just a "cast time." When I'm off farming something (ie very low lag area) my SnD's pop instantly. I hit the button and I can SS exactly 1 second later (rogue global). But in the laggy areas in a raid, what you describe often happens. I've got 25 eng and points and hit my button only to have my target die and me get the error.

I think the problem is it's treated like a damage move, in that it's put into a queue of everyone else's damaging moves and they are FIFO. So if you hit your SnD when the mob is at 15%, it is now waiting behind 3 fireballs, 2 shadowbolts, and an execute and by the time it's turn comes up the mob's dead. A similar effect happens in pvp .. all the time I'll do a mind blast on my priest, see the XXX number pop up over the enemy's head, have him "die" (visually) on my screen like 3/4 second later and I get the spirit tap to know I did the KB.

The solution is to not put SnD in that queue at all. Make it trigger instantly and not have to wait to see if the target is still alive.

[Grimmlokk]

No. You can go into desolace solo and reproduce it quite reliably if you want. Has nothing to do with other people except that they help kill before it's done "casting".

[Cybsled]

and the warlock bitching? please, you have everything. your class needs nerfs

Rofl? I love how so many people cry about locks, and it's usually because of deathcoil in DUELS. It's next to useless in group PVP except to get a rogue off your ass because of it's mana cost and cooldown. Least you have level 60 spells that you actually use. We have the Doomguard, our "Raid" pet! Rofl....

I used DC to emergency heal vs. raid mobs alot. I hope this change merely refers to the fact that we can use DC vs. undead mobs and they're changing that, and not a "roflz u cant heal on fear immune mobs!". And I -really- hope this doesnt apply to PVP.

As for CoA...rofl. Funny how they fix the bug that people whine about for stuff like AB, but still have not as of yet fixed all the other damn bugs with the spell (Stealth dispells it, doesnt tick after you die like all our other dots, auto-dispells once they get out of sight).

Soulfire is still useless cept for duels or sniping in group PVP. I think the only mobs I ever use it against are deathtalons and Chromag when he's fire, although this is what normally happens.

You begin to cast Soulfire.
*At 1 second before cast, Bronze Affliction procs*
You are stunned!
You are stunned!
Chromag's skin shimmers

I so hate that.

Although on the topic of fire spells, why the hell are all the bosses in AQ so high in FR? I seriously get like 1/4th damage on a bunch of them, like Princess Huhu, even with CoE slapped on.

Oh ya, another nerf...apparently ToEP and ZHC are going to share the same cooldown because ghey mages with AP are getting it nerfed for everyone else. GG! Guess I'll put in for a tear next time Nef dies ;(

[Pizoi]

I agree that balancing all this shit based primarily on PVP is horse shit. Fankriss will definately be harder for guilds that just go straight DPS and drop fear bombs, but at least the non-raiding casual fagots who sit in BG's all day will be happy.

Don't even get me started on the ZHC/ToEP nerf that's going to come. Ya, it's a bitch to get 1-2 shotted in PVP, but that's the life of a mage. You dish out 1-2 hit kills, you get dealt 1-2 hit kills. Nerf it in PVP for all I fucking care, but stop nerfing our PVE.

[riot]

Originally Posted by Pizoi

I agree that balancing all this shit based primarily on PVP is horse shit. Fankriss will definately be harder for guilds that just go straight DPS and drop fear bombs, but at least the non-raiding casual fagots who sit in BG's all day will be happy.

Don't even get me started on the ZHC/ToEP nerf that's going to come. Ya, it's a bitch to get 1-2 shotted in PVP, but that's the life of a mage. You dish out 1-2 hit kills, you get dealt 1-2 hit kills. Nerf it in PVP for all I fucking care, but stop nerfing our PVE.

/agree

Unified ruleset needs to go.

[Seo]

i think its funny how shitty this game is getting / feels after only a year. I am very disapointed in it. The developers clearly lack a basic understanding of MMORPGs and yes i know they have played some but it really doesnt feel like it when i play WoW.

and the STUDIEST shit gets through. example broken mage tier 2 and how it triggered just from hitting the button of a spell and not actually casting the spell.



these changes are just another example of how out of wack the itemization is and how much more powerful physical damage classes are. hunt/rog/war.

[Arbitrary]

I'm really not happy with any of the negative changes to any of the classes. Should indeed I not be able to Deathcoil people flagged immune to fear for whatever reason at that time then I'm boned. Although Hunters probably needed a hit it still doesn't make me jump up and dance. There are flat out a lot of nerfs going down to alot of people and I'm never glad to see that. Starts to remind me of what City of Heroes started to turn into.

Once I'm done with EQ2 and go back to WoW I'm totally make a Dwarf Priest on a fresh server.

[Deris]

Warriors having the best fear in the game blew my mind anyways.

And Fankriss not being zergable?! whoaz!!!! Maybe now people will have to actually think instead of GO GO GO DPS


And actually I don't think DC nerf is intended for pvp - mostly for pve, as I think there are quite a few things that are fear immune that you can DC :<

[Cybsled]

Int. Shout will probably hurt the most on Razorgore...we use that to clear the mobs off him when he starts to get owned, since it was unlimited target. They should reduce the cooldown to be in line with the priest/lock AE fear if it's going to be held to the same target restrictions.

Fankris we never really used fear. We have lots of locks, pallies, and mages on hand usually ;P

And actually I don't think DC nerf is intended for pvp - mostly for pve, as I think there are quite a few things that are fear immune that you can DC

You can DC everything cept shadow immune mobs or drain immune mobs (like robots or constructs). Many mobs are immune to the "fear" effect, but you get the heal. However, some mobs like your typical undead trash DO get feared + you get the heal, whereas they are immune to normal fear. I'm hoping the DC change is refering to the fact that they never intended undead mobs to be fearable by warlocks, and not to the fact that fear immune mobs yielded HP when DC'd, even if they didnt get feared.