RF Online - Page 2

Bizanich · 03-01-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolle

why do they love grinding so much without any real content?

Dedication counts for a lot more over there(?).

So, it sounds like traditional MMO combat system that's slightly faster paced if I remember Lineage right? (right) With PvP gangs roaming and slaughtering?

Praetor · 03-01-2006, 10:44 AM

Yeah, very traditional and simple combat.

It has two distinguishing features:
1) Hybrid level-based and skill-based system. Your class and level determine your potential maximum in individual skills, but you improve those skills (both individual skills, like a Haste buff, and broader combat abilities like "Ranged Attack") through use. A "warrior" can wear robes and a staff and cast spells too if he wants -- he just won't be as proficient at it. But there's a fair bit of flexibility in developing your character at higher levels once the grind sets in to the point that simply capping everything ceases to be a realistic option.

2) RvR combat. Actually, RvRvR. The three factions have wars every day over a central contested mining zone, with the winner getting unrestricted access to the resource-rich core for the next 8 hours (until the next war), which yields cash but also the rare crafting materials needed to make good gear and upgrade existing gear.

The whole game is designed around group PvP. It is intentionally impossible to kill someone 1v1 unless you can one-shot them because the game is balanced around everyone carrying hundreds of potions that can basically restore most of their hp every 2 seconds. 1v1 means two people spamming potions until someone runs out (or realistically, runs away).

It's an interesting concept but very bare-bones and I can't really see the longevity of it. Organized RvR every 8 hours is pretty cool though.

The real problem is that my understanding is that the game wasn't quite as successful as anticipated in Korea, and since the UK/US publishers seem to just be a skeleton crew doing marketing, networking, and a tiny bit of translation, with all the content coming from Korea, that does not bode well for the game's future, even if it were to become quite popular in the US/UK.

Jaytan · 03-01-2006, 11:19 AM

This game was the number 18 best seller across all platforms in the UK last week (Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=8323). I don't understand how.

Praetor · 03-01-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaytan

This game was the number 18 best seller across all platforms in the UK last week (Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=8323). I don't understand how.

A few thousand people had preordered it to get into the beta? 100% of the people who had been following RFOnline and planned to purchase it were going to buy it on release. I don't see how release-week sales of an MMO really mean much. Check back in two weeks and see what the numbers are.

Big Mant · 03-01-2006, 11:31 AM

This is a review someone wrote over at F13.net.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=5864.0

---------

RF Online Review...

MMOs are a hard game to review. Getting to know the basic elements of the game can take hours, days, and even more. There are some games you may, in fact, never master, aspects you may completely miss, and gameplay that simply may not appeal to you.

I recognize that games, especially MMO games, appeal to different kinds of people. That's why I am going to focus on some of the basic features of the game, rather then apply some arbitrary numbering scheme.

The problem I have had with RF (Rising Force) Online is that the game simply has too many negatives. Sure, it looks nice, but other games look nicer and deliver better gameplay.

Worst. UI. Ever.:

Most games realize that MMOs are a difficult game to pick up and play, and try to simplify their interfaces while letting the content itself grow more and more sophisticated over time. Games like World of Warcraft and EVE Online are the best examples of this concept: starting easy and gradually moving to ever-increasing complexity.

RF Online is the other way around. In RF Online, the game immediately confronts you with a tutorial. A lengthly tutorial. And there is a reason for this length, one you will recognize five minutes in.

The user interface for this game is TERRIBLE. I think RF Online may win the award for worst UI in an MMO ever.

Basically, the UI looks like someone took a brief look at Diablo (the first one), and tried to copy that. Then they realized that the Diablo UI didn't handle chat so well, so they made the worst chat interface.

When I started playing this game, I brought the user manual into work. So, at the end of the day, I could STUDY.

And I have only begun to cover the problems the user interface has. I have a simple barometer I use in measuring a UI: if a user interface cannot properly handle Word Wrap, something is not finished yet.

Style over Substance:

This game looks pretty. Anime-pretty. Characters and textures have good detail. Surfaces usually have natural ridges. Dust blows in the desert. Etcetera. On a Radeon 850, I was impressed as I first inspected my racial HQ.

The problem is that the style doesn't hold up that well. The armors people wear make everything look alike. What very little customization available has to be sacrificed for better fighting performance. And after awhile, all those fancy textures start to run together, and everything looks the same. Sure, it looks great when your Accretian warrior draws his rocket launcher and lets a smoking rocket smash into an enemy, but after the 1000th rocket it doesn't look as impressive anymore.

Much like Word Wrap, I have another simple test of a game to determine if its combat system is done. If the game does not support collision detection, the game is not done yet. RF Online does not support any collision detection, except with the terrain.

Your faction needs you (to kill ten rats)!:

Once you've finished your tutorial and read the fine manual, its time to get started in the world. Start with your obvious changes to RF Online's weird hotbar, stock up on potions, and get moving on your first quest.

RF Online's quest system, much like the UI, is terrible, but not in a way that requires all upper caps. Quests are extremely, extremely simple: I have yet to see a quest that was not either kill 20 X' or 'Kill X until 10 special items drop'. It says something about an MMO questing system when they don't even have delivery quests.

Potions:

One of the ways in which RF Online varies from the norm is in its use of potions. In most games, Potions or other disposable items are a kind of 'ace up your sleve'. But in RF Online, things are different. See, RF Online basically has no healer class (until you reach high levels). So, all players heal through potion use.

This, initially, sounds interesting. An MMO with no downtime!

Except for the facts that:
1: You can drink a potion every 2-3 seconds.
2: Potions are so cheap, they are practically free.
3: You carry potions in stacks of 99. Many people will carry dozens of such stacks.

You can probably imagine how such a mechanic would affect classic MMO fighting. Which is how this game's combat system works.

PvE combat is better described as 'Potion vs. Environment'. And PvP combat has been nicknamed 'Potion vs. Potion', since you have to either kill someone by depleting all their potions, or do more damage then their potions can heal. If you are the kind of person who like 1v1 PvP dueling, this game may be the worst choice possible.

Grinding:

Potions and their use affects everything in game. PvE combat is the best example of this. Because of the potion mechanic, the game encourages you to take on monsters above your level. Combat against monsters in the environments then becomes an issue of making sure your challenge is something your potions can endure.

Which gets to part of the problem with combat in this game: it is boring. VERY boring. At least in Diablo, you could sort of maneuver a little. But in RF Online, you have to plant your feet and let the bad guys beat on you while you hit your hotkey to drink a potions and another to do a slightly stronger combo move. Again. And Again.

This game clearly shows its Korean roots: the combat is boring and the grind feels like it won't end. Fortunately, the whole process looks kind of pretty, but you'll still find yourself zoning out while you turn off the ingame music in favor of your MP3 collection.

Gibberish:

One of the weird aspects of this game is the monsters and items. I can accept the fact that this is a scifi setting and things might have weird names. But as you look at some of the monsters and resources, you'll be struck by how nonsensical some of the names are. Names for weapons are translated right, for the most part. But a lot of the resources, armor, and especially the monsters are total gibberish, often to the point of being misleading.

My personal favorite is the 'Arghol Drone'. 'Arghol' is the name of what looks vaguely like a Praying Mantis. The Arghol Drone is actually a 'boss' type of that same creature. Which is guarded by large bipedal armored things that look like ogres, tiny flying robots, and things that look like a cross between silverfish and cockroaches several orders of magnitude too large. All of this takes place in a giant ancient temple.

Naturally.

In other cases, the quests you undertake feel like they have been translated poorly, or written by someone in grade school.

This weirdly-cobbled-together feeling pervades the game. Certain things look ridiculous and nonsensical. It's not that the artistic feel is off: its that the purpose behind how the world looks is off.

AFK. Its not just a job, its an adventure:

In many games, AFK actions are one of the dirty little secrets. But in RF Online, AFK actions are often encouraged, if not actually required.

'Specialists', the game's crafter class, practically need to enter PvP areas to acquire resources. But in order to acquire those resources, specialists will need to spend hours and hours gathering those resources. During this time, they will basically be spending their time staring at the screen. Doing nothing. So, most people will be AFK while their avatars gather the wealth their empire needs and the economy demands.

Everyone knows this. And accepts it. PvP players prey on AFK miners to advance themselves in status. And miners make enough in wealth to afford recovery items to recuperate from the loss that accompanies death.

This aspect of the game is 'Progress Quest' bad. At least Puzzle Pirates had minigames.

PvP:

RF Online's fanbase basically agrees that the game really doesn't start until level 25, when PvP begins. PvP is the name of the game in RF Online, the game's story is about three feuding factions opposed to one another trying to run the featured world.

The problem is that PvP really is just more of the same, only with more people. The nature of potions means that PvP is really just a matter of focusing all your attacks on one person before moving onto the next. Since there is no collision detection and you have to hold still to attack, most people being attacked may just run around to stay out of range while they drink potions. The 'capture the flag' elements of PvP combat are interesting, but slow and boring compared to other online games.

Worst of all is the gang-up nature of the game. You would figure that the three factions of RF Online, being not only physically but psychologically opposed to one another, would not work together. But alliances to gang up on weaker factions are the rule, not the exception.

Trying to sum it all up:

The worst part of the game is that the game does have some nice elements. The Race Leaders are an interesting idea that future games like 'Archlord' will be implementing. The game lets you switch between classes in a fairly painless manner. The skill-driven nature of the game means that you can make a character who is as versatile as you want. At higher level, the 'prestige class' nature of the game lets you customize yourself further. And the nature of potions and PvP combat means that ganking doesn't really exist. But the game's basic flaws and problems outweigh its virtues, making the game feel less like a form of entertainment and more like a job.

But this game simply does not feel finished. And I'm not talking about simple ingame bugs, which do exist in the forms of drop rates and equipment you cannot use. I'm talking about fundamental concepts for the gameplay being broken.

In conclusion, I don't recommend RF Online to anyone other then those who enjoy grinding to nice graphics. Other games handle similar content far better. People who are looking to fill a scifi MMO itch have many far better choices. Planetside, Anarchy Online, or maybe even Star Wars Galaxies offer a better experience, with most of the same advantages and a lot fewer problems. Shadowbane is a world that works according to vaguely similar rules in a more traditional fantasy setting, and that is a superior game to RF Online.

-Rhonstet
--------------------

GiR · 03-01-2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Mant

This game clearly shows its Korean roots: the combat is boring and the grind feels like it won't end. Fortunately, the whole process looks kind of pretty, but you'll still find yourself zoning out while you turn off the ingame music in favor of your MP3 collection.

Ouch.

Jubee · 03-01-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Mant

Stuff

Thanks for this. I was seriously considering trying RF out (just to dick around with between my 4 hours in WSG queues) for the RvRvR combat. If I wanted to spam potions while staring at a shitty interface, I'd go play Diablo 2 for free.

Ionsniper · 03-01-2006, 12:22 PM

I have to agree with alot on that review, I played the beta and put in numerous responces about the UI and the subpar chat interface and it was still released a mere 2 weeks after I got in from the preorder. The game has potential since it encourages world pvp every 8 hours for gains that affect your entire side but other than that the game is really lacking.

Dyscord · 03-01-2006, 01:08 PM

Someone should go point people in the 'eliminate healing' thread this way. This is like one of those horror stories about wishing on a dead animal limb for a million dollars, and you get it from insurance because your parents died right in front of you as soon as you wished.

leane · 03-01-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyscord

Someone should go point people in the 'eliminate healing' thread this way. This is like one of those horror stories about wishing on a dead animal limb for a million dollars, and you get it from insurance because your parents died right in front of you as soon as you wished.

They use something like this in Silkroad with spamable potions, but there the potions are a fast heal over time and not an instant heal so sufficient DPS will take down a spammer before he can top off

03-01-2006, 10:44 AM	#17 (permalink)
Praetor Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 420 +0 Internets	Yeah, very traditional and simple combat. It has two distinguishing features: 1) Hybrid level-based and skill-based system. Your class and level determine your potential maximum in individual skills, but you improve those skills (both individual skills, like a Haste buff, and broader combat abilities like "Ranged Attack") through use. A "warrior" can wear robes and a staff and cast spells too if he wants -- he just won't be as proficient at it. But there's a fair bit of flexibility in developing your character at higher levels once the grind sets in to the point that simply capping everything ceases to be a realistic option. 2) RvR combat. Actually, RvRvR. The three factions have wars every day over a central contested mining zone, with the winner getting unrestricted access to the resource-rich core for the next 8 hours (until the next war), which yields cash but also the rare crafting materials needed to make good gear and upgrade existing gear. The whole game is designed around group PvP. It is intentionally impossible to kill someone 1v1 unless you can one-shot them because the game is balanced around everyone carrying hundreds of potions that can basically restore most of their hp every 2 seconds. 1v1 means two people spamming potions until someone runs out (or realistically, runs away). It's an interesting concept but very bare-bones and I can't really see the longevity of it. Organized RvR every 8 hours is pretty cool though. The real problem is that my understanding is that the game wasn't quite as successful as anticipated in Korea, and since the UK/US publishers seem to just be a skeleton crew doing marketing, networking, and a tiny bit of translation, with all the content coming from Korea, that does not bode well for the game's future, even if it were to become quite popular in the US/UK. __________________ Gurgthock, Elitist Jerks (Mal'Ganis)

03-01-2006, 11:19 AM	#18 (permalink)
Jaytan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin Posts: 74 -1 Internets	This game was the number 18 best seller across all platforms in the UK last week (Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=8323). I don't understand how. __________________ Jaytan, Elitist Jerks (Mal'Ganis)

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03-01-2006, 11:31 AM	#20 (permalink)
Big Mant Altera Vita Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 46 +1 Internets	This is a review someone wrote over at F13.net. http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=5864.0 --------- RF Online Review... MMOs are a hard game to review. Getting to know the basic elements of the game can take hours, days, and even more. There are some games you may, in fact, never master, aspects you may completely miss, and gameplay that simply may not appeal to you. I recognize that games, especially MMO games, appeal to different kinds of people. That's why I am going to focus on some of the basic features of the game, rather then apply some arbitrary numbering scheme. The problem I have had with RF (Rising Force) Online is that the game simply has too many negatives. Sure, it looks nice, but other games look nicer and deliver better gameplay. Worst. UI. Ever.: Most games realize that MMOs are a difficult game to pick up and play, and try to simplify their interfaces while letting the content itself grow more and more sophisticated over time. Games like World of Warcraft and EVE Online are the best examples of this concept: starting easy and gradually moving to ever-increasing complexity. RF Online is the other way around. In RF Online, the game immediately confronts you with a tutorial. A lengthly tutorial. And there is a reason for this length, one you will recognize five minutes in. The user interface for this game is TERRIBLE. I think RF Online may win the award for worst UI in an MMO ever. Basically, the UI looks like someone took a brief look at Diablo (the first one), and tried to copy that. Then they realized that the Diablo UI didn't handle chat so well, so they made the worst chat interface. When I started playing this game, I brought the user manual into work. So, at the end of the day, I could STUDY. And I have only begun to cover the problems the user interface has. I have a simple barometer I use in measuring a UI: if a user interface cannot properly handle Word Wrap, something is not finished yet. Style over Substance: This game looks pretty. Anime-pretty. Characters and textures have good detail. Surfaces usually have natural ridges. Dust blows in the desert. Etcetera. On a Radeon 850, I was impressed as I first inspected my racial HQ. The problem is that the style doesn't hold up that well. The armors people wear make everything look alike. What very little customization available has to be sacrificed for better fighting performance. And after awhile, all those fancy textures start to run together, and everything looks the same. Sure, it looks great when your Accretian warrior draws his rocket launcher and lets a smoking rocket smash into an enemy, but after the 1000th rocket it doesn't look as impressive anymore. Much like Word Wrap, I have another simple test of a game to determine if its combat system is done. If the game does not support collision detection, the game is not done yet. RF Online does not support any collision detection, except with the terrain. Your faction needs you (to kill ten rats)!: Once you've finished your tutorial and read the fine manual, its time to get started in the world. Start with your obvious changes to RF Online's weird hotbar, stock up on potions, and get moving on your first quest. RF Online's quest system, much like the UI, is terrible, but not in a way that requires all upper caps. Quests are extremely, extremely simple: I have yet to see a quest that was not either kill 20 X' or 'Kill X until 10 special items drop'. It says something about an MMO questing system when they don't even have delivery quests. Potions: One of the ways in which RF Online varies from the norm is in its use of potions. In most games, Potions or other disposable items are a kind of 'ace up your sleve'. But in RF Online, things are different. See, RF Online basically has no healer class (until you reach high levels). So, all players heal through potion use. This, initially, sounds interesting. An MMO with no downtime! Except for the facts that: 1: You can drink a potion every 2-3 seconds. 2: Potions are so cheap, they are practically free. 3: You carry potions in stacks of 99. Many people will carry dozens of such stacks. You can probably imagine how such a mechanic would affect classic MMO fighting. Which is how this game's combat system works. PvE combat is better described as 'Potion vs. Environment'. And PvP combat has been nicknamed 'Potion vs. Potion', since you have to either kill someone by depleting all their potions, or do more damage then their potions can heal. If you are the kind of person who like 1v1 PvP dueling, this game may be the worst choice possible. Grinding: Potions and their use affects everything in game. PvE combat is the best example of this. Because of the potion mechanic, the game encourages you to take on monsters above your level. Combat against monsters in the environments then becomes an issue of making sure your challenge is something your potions can endure. Which gets to part of the problem with combat in this game: it is boring. VERY boring. At least in Diablo, you could sort of maneuver a little. But in RF Online, you have to plant your feet and let the bad guys beat on you while you hit your hotkey to drink a potions and another to do a slightly stronger combo move. Again. And Again. This game clearly shows its Korean roots: the combat is boring and the grind feels like it won't end. Fortunately, the whole process looks kind of pretty, but you'll still find yourself zoning out while you turn off the ingame music in favor of your MP3 collection. Gibberish: One of the weird aspects of this game is the monsters and items. I can accept the fact that this is a scifi setting and things might have weird names. But as you look at some of the monsters and resources, you'll be struck by how nonsensical some of the names are. Names for weapons are translated right, for the most part. But a lot of the resources, armor, and especially the monsters are total gibberish, often to the point of being misleading. My personal favorite is the 'Arghol Drone'. 'Arghol' is the name of what looks vaguely like a Praying Mantis. The Arghol Drone is actually a 'boss' type of that same creature. Which is guarded by large bipedal armored things that look like ogres, tiny flying robots, and things that look like a cross between silverfish and cockroaches several orders of magnitude too large. All of this takes place in a giant ancient temple. Naturally. In other cases, the quests you undertake feel like they have been translated poorly, or written by someone in grade school. This weirdly-cobbled-together feeling pervades the game. Certain things look ridiculous and nonsensical. It's not that the artistic feel is off: its that the purpose behind how the world looks is off. AFK. Its not just a job, its an adventure: In many games, AFK actions are one of the dirty little secrets. But in RF Online, AFK actions are often encouraged, if not actually required. 'Specialists', the game's crafter class, practically need to enter PvP areas to acquire resources. But in order to acquire those resources, specialists will need to spend hours and hours gathering those resources. During this time, they will basically be spending their time staring at the screen. Doing nothing. So, most people will be AFK while their avatars gather the wealth their empire needs and the economy demands. Everyone knows this. And accepts it. PvP players prey on AFK miners to advance themselves in status. And miners make enough in wealth to afford recovery items to recuperate from the loss that accompanies death. This aspect of the game is 'Progress Quest' bad. At least Puzzle Pirates had minigames. PvP: RF Online's fanbase basically agrees that the game really doesn't start until level 25, when PvP begins. PvP is the name of the game in RF Online, the game's story is about three feuding factions opposed to one another trying to run the featured world. The problem is that PvP really is just more of the same, only with more people. The nature of potions means that PvP is really just a matter of focusing all your attacks on one person before moving onto the next. Since there is no collision detection and you have to hold still to attack, most people being attacked may just run around to stay out of range while they drink potions. The 'capture the flag' elements of PvP combat are interesting, but slow and boring compared to other online games. Worst of all is the gang-up nature of the game. You would figure that the three factions of RF Online, being not only physically but psychologically opposed to one another, would not work together. But alliances to gang up on weaker factions are the rule, not the exception. Trying to sum it all up: The worst part of the game is that the game does have some nice elements. The Race Leaders are an interesting idea that future games like 'Archlord' will be implementing. The game lets you switch between classes in a fairly painless manner. The skill-driven nature of the game means that you can make a character who is as versatile as you want. At higher level, the 'prestige class' nature of the game lets you customize yourself further. And the nature of potions and PvP combat means that ganking doesn't really exist. But the game's basic flaws and problems outweigh its virtues, making the game feel less like a form of entertainment and more like a job. But this game simply does not feel finished. And I'm not talking about simple ingame bugs, which do exist in the forms of drop rates and equipment you cannot use. I'm talking about fundamental concepts for the gameplay being broken. In conclusion, I don't recommend RF Online to anyone other then those who enjoy grinding to nice graphics. Other games handle similar content far better. People who are looking to fill a scifi MMO itch have many far better choices. Planetside, Anarchy Online, or maybe even Star Wars Galaxies offer a better experience, with most of the same advantages and a lot fewer problems. Shadowbane is a world that works according to vaguely similar rules in a more traditional fantasy setting, and that is a superior game to RF Online. -Rhonstet --------------------

03-01-2006, 12:22 PM	#23 (permalink)
Ionsniper Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 728 -8 Internets	I have to agree with alot on that review, I played the beta and put in numerous responces about the UI and the subpar chat interface and it was still released a mere 2 weeks after I got in from the preorder. The game has potential since it encourages world pvp every 8 hours for gains that affect your entire side but other than that the game is really lacking.

03-01-2006, 01:08 PM	#24 (permalink)
Dyscord Harvey Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Command Carrier Posts: 1,856 +5 Internets	Someone should go point people in the 'eliminate healing' thread this way. This is like one of those horror stories about wishing on a dead animal limb for a million dollars, and you get it from insurance because your parents died right in front of you as soon as you wished.