EQ2's new Grey con Aggro code might be a gamebreaker

[Aethn Anvel]

Well the new grey aggro code they added to the game has had a pretty bad side effect that just might be a gamebreaker for some if its not retuned.

Right now as it stands if a mob cons green or higher to a person and is aggro, when they group with a higher level character that greys that mob out, it will still aggro. In theory this is a great idea and really puts the breaks on most, not all, farmers bottomfeeding and sniping named mobs.

But there is a problem. It also cause some groups to kill a massive amount of grey no EXP mobs just to get to basic EXP camps in legit crawl / kill for exp groups. Let me explain:

I two box, so I found this issue out first when i was soloing in Rivervale. My Swashy is lvl 51 and my Templar is 50, only a 1 level difference. I went to Rivervale to work on Nightblood L&L and the kill 100 nightbloods quest. The Night bloods are still green to me 51, so its exp, slow but something at least. The issue is nearly all the trash from the Fools Gold Inn TO the Nightbloods camp is grey to my 51 yet green to my 50. So after dying 3 times on my Templar trying to get TO the EXP mobs i wanted to kill, I realized I was going to have to kill dozens of grey con aggro mobs just to setup a EXP camp, a legit EXP camp.

Second time was in Lavastorm and Permafrost. I was grouped with a 53, I was 51, we have a 50 and 2 52's in the group. We wanted to move just into the zone past the first major lava river and soon realized that all the grey con mobs were aggro and wiped us out. This also occured in Permafrost trying to get to EXP mobs.

Scott Hartsman, did you guys even give this change more then 2 mins thought on the ramifications of EXP grouping? It smacks of a kneejerk reaction to bottomfeeding and sniping. This new sytem is really bad, and you know what, it doesnt even stop bottomfeeding or sniping for the most part, just changes the tactic. All it really has done is make it impossible to get to some EXP camps unless you kill lots of grey mobs, or you never group with anyone above or below your level.

Its totally unreasonable to ask a level 53 to mentor down to a level 51 just so we can get EXP off the greys we MUST kill to get to the Green + con mobs the lvl 53 can get EXP on. I really dont see any benefit of grouping with anyone below your level now if its going to cause you to kill loads of greys or force you to mentor down at a significant EXP loss.

I supported this change before I actually played under its rules. I think a better solution would have been to bring back old auto lock encounters and no assist killing with a high level for a few weeks, until you could have added a competant and fully tested system into the game. This one you have now is a gamebreaker for some.

[Anyen]

The mobs!!! They aggro?

So?

[Duppin]

Originally Posted by Anyen

The mobs!!! They aggro?

So?

Did you even read what he posted?

If this is true, yeah, bad move. This should be rethought to make XP groups with level differences so small as to be trivial not so heavily penalized.

[Aethn Anvel]

Aggro isnt teh problem, the problem is they aggro a group that is only 1 level apart in difference. The issue is you now need to kill thise grey mobs that are only 1 level apart. What should have been done was codding it so that any group that is within 3 levels of the average of the group, which is how con is determined in a group now as of a few months ago, they all con the same. So if you have a group that is 50, 51, 52 then when its grey aggro to the 50, its green and you get EXP for it, it its grey con to the 52 its grey non aggro to everyone in the group. That way legit similar level exp groups are all on the same page.

Bottomfeeding / sniping wasnt an issue of a lvl 51 greying mobs to a 50. It was a issue of a lvl 60 greying mobs to a lvl 30. so if you just open the con average on Grey con aggro in similar level groups. Then legit EXP groups wont have to clear so much non-EXP trash to get to actual EXP camps for legit purposes.

Its a simple fix that I hope they look into. Again, lets reitterate, I know why they did this and support it fully, but it needs to be slightly tuned better so the innocent dont get such a large negative impact in gameplay.

[Suineg]

The problem is you got used to grey mobs not aggroing...

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Suineg

The problem is you got used to grey mobs not aggroing...

Is anyone here even doing the service of reading his fucking post?

Jesus Christ.

He makes perfect sense to anyone that doesn't have ADD and needs a TLDR one sentence paraphrase.

[Jait]

/boggle

For a 2-boxer there's 1500 other xp alternatives just off the top of my head, so there's something you're not telling us. Like why are you going through content 15 levels beneath you? Just to get to an xp camp? Riiiiiight. It sounds like you're looking for cheap green names, and that's exactly why this was implemented. You have to work for the loot. Not trivialize the content so you can walk past the other groups 15 levels lower than you to the named.

If you're still sticking to the "I'm just doing this for Nightblood L&L" story, then maybe you shoulda thought about doing that content in the 30s like everyone else. At least EQ2 gives you the ability to go and do it, even after you've outlevelled it. Otherwise, I don't see the complaint in having to work you way through the mobs, your advantage is now you're a whole lot higher lvl and can mow them down.

Seriously, I don't see how you can call this a possible gamebreaker. Even more puzzling is you complaining over having to mentor down 2 whole levels. Again, try checking out some content around your level. As someone who solo's yellows at 50+, I can't for a second understand why you need Green dungeons for 2-boxing...unless you're a bottomfeeder of course

[GrobbeeTrull]

Hey here's an idea... mentor.

I say this with all sincerity, because really, how much exp would the bot get otherwise?

Oh you're just moving in to farm? Fuck you very much.

You're complaining because you have a chance to advance two characters at once?

Or are you complaining because you can't farm fast enough?

[Moontayle]

It used to happen like this a long time ago but for some reason they took out the grey aggro and simply replaced it with average group aggro. The group average level sets which mobs will attack you and those that attack you will be at least green.

Mentoring, even 1 level, reduces exp gain for the person mentoring by 50%. It's not a real viable solution to this unless the mentor simply doesn't care about exp.

The solution is to focus soley on wide ranges of people grouping. Tie it into the exp code even further so that if the person who is lower wouldn't get experience from the mobs with the higher person, then the grey-aggro kicks in. Might be a more enviable solution overall, since as the original poster said... grey aggro is a pain in the ass and it's not like WoW where greys suddenly have an aggro radius so small you could fuck a mob in the ass and it *might* aggro you before you finish.

[Suineg]

My point was that if you pay attention you will be able to realize he is most likely an idiot.

Green to a 50 and grey to a 51 is fine.

Group them I am pretty sure (I might be wrong) will make that grey to both. Someone verify but it seems a lot to whine about for nothing.

[Samus Aran]

Heh, no, it will still aggro. That is the change he's complaining about...

[Suineg]

Oh yeah hehe but anyways....

[Digits]

Wouldn't the proper fix to this be the reenstatement of the old grey agro group rule if the people are within 8 levels of each other, like the way exp works?

This change didn't seem to be well thought out, though some implementation of it is needed.

[Warrik]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Is anyone here even doing the service of reading his fucking post?

Jesus Christ.

He makes perfect sense to anyone that doesn't have ADD and needs a TLDR one sentence paraphrase.

I read his post. He has two characters. the mobs are grey to one and green to another due to a level difference and he is complaining about fighting a ton of grey trash mobs to get to an xp spot.

I have a suggestion...maybe you should, with your two charcters, be going to another spot if you want to xp. Maybe something thats highrer than green to your lowest charcter.

This is hardly gamebreaking.....seriously.

[Gallenite]

Yes. We both thought about this and played through it for a few weeks.

We'll be keeping an eye on it to see how it transitions over into live, and I do sympathize with people who find it strange.

What we took away from our time in testing with it was that it played well and felt a lot more consistent with an online fantasy world, when compared to "I group with someone high level who sits far away, and can go anywhere."

If the mob is green to the Templar, it feels consistent that the mob should be attacking the Templar.

In your case, if the Templar was one level higher, this wouldn't be an issue and you could bypass what's currently green to him. (Still arguably more generous than most games, where things would aggro you forever, just at different ranges.)

If you don't have invis potions you could always mentor the Templar while heading over to where you want to be and get him some "being-mentored" bonus xp, as well as netting yourself the 50% improvement over "none," causing his xp to catch up to yours just from doing this, if done over enough time.

Sorry if it feels like a drastic shift. If I'm misunderstanding what happened here, let me know. Seriously. If it's not working the way it was on test, we should deal with it.

However, the artificial transport mechanic is what this change is intended to address.

It absolutely does break "passporting" -- that's the specific idea behind this change.

- Scott