Mudflation and Obsolete Raid Zones

[ex-genj]

alright alright

[Kasonic]

He's Exalted with Zandalar...

I'd gouge my fucking eyes out before that would happen.

[Dyscord]

I'm really stunned that people defend this whole 'non-pidgeon hole"ing thing. This is an MMO. MMO's are about min maxing. You go healer, you heal and do everything possible to max that. You tank? max it. The combination of 40 min/max'ed people to mesh together and cover each other's weaknesses and accentuate strengths is always the key to any MMO. Thats why hybrids have always sucked and felt out of place. They don't min/max like a tank or a priest.

Look for gods sake at the druid genesis set. Its got +str +agi +int +spirit and +dmg/healing on it. In other words, its got the atk power of a sub MC geared rogue, the +dmg and healing for a ZG mage, and overall stats spread out all over the place, creating one mess of uselessness.

Flexability is useless. Min Maxing isn't.

[Neppy]

Dont forget that mind blast agro is increasing in 1.9 and that mindflaying suffers a lot worse from latency than smashing the frostbolt key.

[Kasonic]

I love the retard Druids on the test forum defending Genesis. Even for FERAL, it's terrible, since it's got caster stats. And do you think a druid in full Stormrage wants that piece of shit? Grats them on getting jack shit out of AQ.

They're worse than the DPS warriors back when they changed Might/Wrath.

[Dyscord]

I was a vocal critic of the genesis set. all the other druids just said "your obviously a horrible druid, learn2play".

On the bright side, for those of us who highly specialize, AQ is a good spot to horde DKP while we wait for the next dungeon.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Elerion

Wether it's hard for a mage or warlock to win the damage meter on Ragnaros is irrelevant. It's a 3 minute encounter with a knockback slowing down melees, which makes it pretty much 100% perfect for a shadow priest. The only thing that could make it better is if he was extra vulnerable to shadow.

And yep, SW:P/Mind Flay is more efficient. I've done the math long ago. Here's the short version:
A naked priest with talents has 2,81 damage per mana
A naked (frost)mage with talents has 2,24 damage per mana
That's including crits, and assumes Shadow Weaving stays at full stack constantly, and that all SW:Ps are allowed to tick full duration. The mage is chaining FB, the priest has SWP up and chains Mind Flay.
At this point it looks good, right? Just remember that the mage:
- has 45% mana regen during casting, contrary to the priest's 0% (15% in transcendence, which leaves him with significantly less +dmg)
- effectively doubles his manapool with evocation and mana gems
- has a 10% chance of clearcast for each cast
- gets 86% of the +dmg bonus for his frostbolt, while the priest only gets 43% on mind flay. This, together with the fact that the mage gains a heck of a lot more from +crit, means that mage will gain a lot more from itemization.

All that put together makes it quite obvious that a mage will deal at least twice as much damage before running out of mana. The fact that Mind Flay/SWP is more mana efficient with isolated numbers doesn't matter. The priest can deal more damage in a medium sized timeframe (1-3 minutes) but the mage wins out both on frontloading and for long term, and has the ability to polymorph and AE as well. It's the same story with warlocks.


ex-genj, it's the European Shattered Hand server.

I believe priests get 50% on mind flay, which should be 86% since it's a 3 second spell. Regardless, it's 50% *1.15*1.15*1.10, since all the shadow modifiers apply after +dmg gear. So you actually end up with 70-something% on mind flay.

Yes, mages can get 45% in-combat regen, but the very same +dmg gear usually doesn't have spirit, and no mage that I know of has the 15% regen talent since it only stacks with mage armor right when you log in. Once you refresh mage armor, it stops stacking, which makes the talent useless. So mages generally have 30% regen from mage armor, which doesn't add up to a whole lot in most of the fights we're talking about.

Regardless, yes I agree shadow priests dps'ing in MC is mostly a novelty thing, not something you would or should see every day. Yes they can do it, no they're not as good at it as mages/warlocks.

But if I'm going to play healbot for MC (if I were a raiding priest) and I wanted to PvP with my priest, I'd be spending spare dkp after picking up healing items on +dmg items, and I wouldn't want to hear any crying about it.

[Elerion]

But if I'm going to play healbot for MC (if I were a raiding priest) and I wanted to PvP with my priest, I'd be spending spare dkp after picking up healing items on +dmg items, and I wouldn't want to hear any crying about it.

That's entirely up to the guild you're in, obviously. Most guilds will allow you to get those +dmg items once they've been dropping for a while. But no sane guild will allow you to take them before the classes that need them for their primary purpose have had their chance, and you've picked up some items for your primary purpose.

People that start crying when they get shouted at for wanting first dibs on novelty loot (Hi I'm a paladin I want Ashkandi, Hi I'm a priest I want +dmg gear) make the stuff in my balls turn sour.

And we're still back to the original thing: Why the fuck have Blizzard made our Tier 3 set tailored to a class variant that noone really wants in a raid anyway?

[Abalieno]

Originally Posted by AngryDwarf

. This, of course, is assuming that folks won't be able to attain MC quality gear from 5 or 10 man dungeons in the expansion. A situation like that could render even MC obsolete.

They have already announced that the expansion will have many 5-man instances at the endgame.

[Cor]

And we're still back to the original thing: Why the fuck have Blizzard made our Tier 3 set tailored to a class variant that noone really wants in a raid anyway?

In all fairness, it is the best group pvp set for a healing priest.

I'm just hoping that the non set items are good upgrade over transcendance. There seems to be a few on the data mined list, but there should be more stuff elsewhere.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Elerion

That's entirely up to the guild you're in, obviously. Most guilds will allow you to get those +dmg items once they've been dropping for a while. But no sane guild will allow you to take them before the classes that need them for their primary purpose have had their chance, and you've picked up some items for your primary purpose.

People that start crying when they get shouted at for wanting first dibs on novelty loot (Hi I'm a paladin I want Ashkandi, Hi I'm a priest I want +dmg gear) make the stuff in my balls turn sour.

And we're still back to the original thing: Why the fuck have Blizzard made our Tier 3 set tailored to a class variant that noone really wants in a raid anyway?

Understandable that mages/warlocks would have priority on them, but if it's a "if every warlock/mage in the raid already has it then you can loot it" thing, then you might as well say you'll never get it, because that'll probably never happen.

I really don't understand the pally hate with ashkandi, some of the other highend weapons.. what do you think pallies do for dmg? They don't have any spells they cast, they freaking hit things with weapons. Denying them better weapons because you think a warrior can use it better is retarded. 95% of the time warriors in the raid wouldn't be using it either, they'd have tanking gear on.

I'm guessing Blizzard doesn't want you to think of the AQ items as "tier 3", simply as another set of gear you can get if you want to. It'd probably be pretty nice for any farming you needed to do, since it's +dmg and healing, and the stats seem quite decent as well. Plus it's a nice bone to throw to the shadow priests who ARE in MC, and do want +dmg gear.

[Elerion]

95% of the time warriors in the raid wouldn't be using it either, they'd have tanking gear on.

Seriously, wtf?

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Elerion

Seriously, wtf?

So in boss fights when it might matter your warriors are in dps gear? I realize you can switch weapons, but you can't switch gear. Our warriors spend most of the raid in tanking gear, in case they need to take aggro and.. you know.. tank.

[WillzZz]

Wtf is right? wtf?

You were JUST debating weapons. The entire paragraph was ABOUT giving weapons to a pally.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by WillTR

Wtf is right? wtf?

You were JUST debating weapons. The entire paragraph was ABOUT giving weapons to a pally.

The usual argument is that dps warriors use it so much better, and that you're furthering your progression blah blah blah by giving it to a warrior. I don't it matters one way or another to the raid what weapon a warrior has as long as he's holding aggro. Thunderfury might be an exception..