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[Arbitrary]

Originally Posted by Metranon

cleric is by far the strongest base caster class in d&d 3.5, after that i would rate them druid, psion, wizard, sorcerer, bard, psychic warrior for strictly spell/power based ability

Sorcs are just so so so much worse than Wizards though. At lower levels it isn't that big a deal but later never getting the benefit of Quicken Spell means you'll always do a ton less damage. The best way to go is to take often useful spells that you sometimes needs to cast on the entire party. Stuff like Fly, Resist Elements, etc. Being a nuker Sorc is a bad plan.

You should really just rate it as Cleric, Druid, Wizard and not bother listing anyone else. Unless the DM lets you be a Psion, for they are mighty.

[Griffon]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

Sorcs are just so so so much worse than Wizards though. At lower levels it isn't that big a deal but later never getting the benefit of Quicken Spell means you'll always do a ton less damage. The best way to go is to take often useful spells that you sometimes needs to cast on the entire party. Stuff like Fly, Resist Elements, etc. Being a nuker Sorc is a bad plan.

I've never seen the distinction that way. In most of the p-n-p games I've seen, the sorcerer is exactly the nuker; limited spell selection means you can't carry a diverse selection of buff spells like the wizard anyway.

As for DDO, well, since both classes use spell points instead of memorization system, the differences between the two classes are quite different, though the progression for the sorcerer remains slightly slower. The real differencess are more about casting times, re-cast times, and spell point totals.

All that said, I can't disagree with you that clerics are the most obviously overpowered class in D&D and, likely, in DDO.

[Jooka]

Originally Posted by Griffon

I've never seen the distinction that way. In most of the p-n-p games I've seen, the sorcerer is exactly the nuker; limited spell selection means you can't carry a diverse selection of buff spells like the wizard anyway.

As for DDO, well, since both classes use spell points instead of memorization system, the differences between the two classes are quite different, though the progression for the sorcerer remains slightly slower. The real differencess are more about casting times, re-cast times, and spell point totals.

All that said, I can't disagree with you that clerics are the most obviously overpowered class in D&D and, likely, in DDO.

need some more game time, got into this last stress test late and it simple wasnt enough!

[Arbitrary]

Originally Posted by Griffon

I've never seen the distinction that way. In most of the p-n-p games I've seen, the sorcerer is exactly the nuker; limited spell selection means you can't carry a diverse selection of buff spells like the wizard anyway.

Let me clarify that a bit. I made it a point to break not only classes, but concepts using only the three core books, including multiclass options. What is the best mounted combat character I can make? What is the best way to mix a cleric/fighter? Are saving throws enough to base an entire character on? There are all kinds of neat questions you can raise after you are sure you've got the correctly built Cleric, Bard, Wizard, etc. Classes that don't break, like Rogues, still have builds that are much better builds than others or may be components of more broken builds. I probably spent 15 hours a week for 3 years just on making characters on paper as I sat in classes that I didn't need to be alive for to pass.

My favorite characters that I've played and still wish to play aren't even broken builds, but it's good to know what those are on paper. I can get out any crazy minmaxing worked out of my system and be ready to play a game that actually involves me in the story with a character I like.

You just can't break a Sorc in a way that couldn't be done better with a Wizard. It's really a shame too. The only way I could see that a Sorc could outshine a Wizard (with the core books + a few other not crazy books) would be if they could actually be able to abuse the spells they get and how they get them. I can think of countless times where the party would have been able to skip a rest cycle and then also not clutter up other people's spell selections if a Sorc would have been around with Fly, Resist Energy, Break Enchantment, etc. There are some spells that are useful on their own but just might need to be cast on the entire party.

If you want to be the best Nuker you can be (which is totally differant from wanting to be a Sorc. If you want to be a Sorc then be a Sorc) then the lack of Quicken Spell is the killer if your DM adheres to the black letter rule that it does Sorcerers zero good as using any metamagic ability makes the action a full round action automatically.

Soon the wizard in the party is tossing Cone of Cold + Quicken Scorching Ray all over the place, or spending much less time at the start of the fight casting defensive magic, gets free metamagic/item creation feats, better skill selection, gets his spells a level quicker, and if he took a school spec has exactly 9 less spells than an equal level Sorc at 20th, which means about zero.

I still can't decide if Druids are more broken the Clerics though. You can such wild shit with both that it's just so hard to guage them.

[Kreugen]

Originally Posted by Rayne

I just couldn't get into this game at all. I think the dice roll thing ruined it for me. Watching the combat chat window aggravated the shit outta me.

miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
you hit kobald for 2 points of bludgeon damage!
miss
miss
miss
miss
you hit kobald for 5 points of slashing damage!
miss..... etc.

That one fight took like 3 minutes LOL. Yet I could smash boxes and crates with a single swing. I logged out. Never even finished the instance. I'm sure its a great game for some, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. I probably just didn't understand it. But with that type of combat, even if I did, i'd probably still wouldn't like it.

It helps if you make "clickety clack, clickety clack" sounds outloud at all times

[Zhaun's_Shade]

Originally Posted by Kreugen

It helps if you make "clickety clack, clickety clack" sounds outloud at all times

Holy shit, this actually works!

[Mkopec1]

got a new issue of PCGAMER which had a huge writeup of the game and from reading that shit it shounds pretty cool. They say they have over 140 dungeons with alot more quests that utilize some of the same dungeons.Also the level cap at release is 10.

Oh and there was like a code in the issue giving away 5000 closed beta accounts. so I input my code and it reads "Sorry your a FUCKING LOOSER!"