EQ2 Test Update #18

[Itzena]

It was mentioned in one of the Blizzcon reports, in an interview with a higher-up at Blizzard (possible Rob Pardo).

Blizzard was expecting EQ-levels of retention (somewhere around 50-60%) which was industry leading at the time. They actually got about 20% or so higher rates than that.

No link, but feel free to Google for it.

[Mkopec1]

How can you measure retention with a game that has been out only a year, vs a game that has been out for 6 years?

Come back in 6 years and well talk. Hell come back in 2 years and well talk about WoWs retention numbers.

[Kodylan]

Originally Posted by Itzena

WoW has a higher percentage customer retention than EQ ever had.
Just so you know.

Isn't it a bit early to be judging player retention? The game has only been out a year, that's very young in the life of an MMO.

[Itzena]

People have been saying that WoW's playerbase is going to collapse Real Soon Now for most of that year, too.

Edit: IIRC, the comment was based on a like-for-like retention comparsion of EQs first year against WoW's first year.

[Kodylan]

Originally Posted by Itzena

People have been saying that WoW's playerbase is going to collapse Real Soon Now for most of that year, too.

People said that about EQ for uh, 5 years? Too. ""

[Itzena]

EQ's did collapse as soon as a viable competitor was released, though. What's WoW got on the horizon, threat-wise, for the next two or three years?

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Itzena

EQ's did collapse as soon as a viable competitor was released, though. What's WoW got on the horizon, threat-wise, for the next two or three years?

Age of Conan looks pretty cool.

[Etadanik]

Originally Posted by Itzena

It was mentioned in one of the Blizzcon reports, in an interview with a higher-up at Blizzard (possible Rob Pardo).

Blizzard was expecting EQ-levels of retention (somewhere around 50-60%) which was industry leading at the time. They actually got about 20% or so higher rates than that.

No link, but feel free to Google for it.

Can't find it. I did find a Shawn Carnes interview stating that he was impressed by the low turnover rate of WoW. But who knows what he means by that.

Regardless, one way to measure retention is by the ratio between boxes sold and current # of subscribers. If someone can dig up that data, we'll have some facts to play around with...

Course, none of this changes what I've said already. Even if EQ rate of retention in the first year was ~20% less than WoW's (believable, given that EQ was trying to break the ice on a new genre of 3D MMORPGs), there's still no indication that WoW's player base is not a direct result of having a larger number of initial subscribers. Turnover rates are, after all, as determined by # of initial subscribers as anything else due to the way people mass subscribe/cancel as a result of trends and friends.

[Sylas]

Whoever posted the EQ1 numbers are off, btw. They grew for 2 years, plateau'd off, then dropped just like virtually all other MMOs that don't crash on launch.

I dug up those WoW numbers in March which was the last time i saw numbers for them. It doesn't mean much now, but it was something like 93% retention rate. I even called them liars at the time. use the search function, it was posted here on the foh boards.

and lets just say I wouldn't be surprised to see a 5 million (1.25-1.5 million NA) subscriber base announced by the end of the year. Not only are the still selling, their levels of retention and and re-ups are just insane. It's hard to compare WoW to anything before it simply because it hasn't behaved like any other MMO before it. The player base isn't even close to "stabilizing" yet.

[Kasonic]

The NPD Group has released their list of the Top-10 PC games for the week ending Nov 26th 2005:

1. Call Of Duty 2 - Activision
2. World Of Warcraft - VU Games
3. Battlefield 2 Special Forces - Electronic Arts
4. The Sims 2 Holiday Edition - Electronic Arts
5. The Sims 2 Nightlife - Electronic Arts
6. Age of Empires III - Microsoft
7. Civilization IV - 2K Games
8. Quake 4 - Activision
9. The Sims Complete Collection - Electronic Arts
10. The Sims 2 - Electronic Arts

I don't think Blizzard even cares what their retention rate is.

[Etadanik]

Originally Posted by Sylas

It's hard to compare WoW to anything before it simply because it hasn't behaved like any other MMO before it. The player base isn't even close to "stabilizing" yet.

... Which has pretty much been the trend with Blizzard games in general. Even if they're good, they can't be *that* good with *pre-orders* of Warcraft III reaching the millions and the game launching with 5 million copies sold in the first run. No franchise identification and bandwagoning my ass.

Launch numbers, which are determined by franchise identification, marketing, and word of mouth, mean alot for MMORPGs. I've yet to see a MMORPG that launched badly but managed to gain a huge player base afterwards. MMORPGs that launch badly stay mediocre, while those that launch with large numbers grow larger - up to a certain multiple of the launch numbers, which for WoW was around 800,000 for NA alone.

[Vaclav]

Originally Posted by Itzena

It was mentioned in one of the Blizzcon reports, in an interview with a higher-up at Blizzard (possible Rob Pardo).

Blizzard was expecting EQ-levels of retention (somewhere around 50-60%) which was industry leading at the time. They actually got about 20% or so higher rates than that.

No link, but feel free to Google for it.

Yes, that quote existed Itz, it was quoted as "near 100%" around Easter '05 but also suspiciously it was days after they added time to people's accounts for downtime, which DID reactivate accounts that were currently inactive.

It was another good example of information being provided accurately to the letter of word, but quite possibly giving a very wrong impression.

[Saban]

WoW is the new Counterstrike of online games, people just wont fucking stop playing it.

I gaurantee you that in 6 years its still sporting a huge playerbase.

[Aethn Anvel]

Utnayan, just to clear something up. Exactly how long did you play EQ2? I mean retail release, not some free Beta.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Aethn Anvel

Utnayan, just to clear something up. Exactly how long did you play EQ2? I mean retail release, not some free Beta.

I played the Beta up until the point of retail release the first time around. I never buy SOE games at full price. I wait about 3 months before they hit rock bottom before I have an inclining to test out the game. I found the world design to be boring, uninspired, with character and NPC models to be the same with a lack of proportion to most, with a horrible design concept in penalizing another for someone elses mistake in getting the group killed. The combat system was dull, some of the art caught my eye but it was too few and far between to make a difference in adjusting my opinion that it seemed like they threw the content for the world together in about 4 months tops. Then I entered an instance of Antonica while trying to find a friend, ended up in the wrong one, and wondered how in the fuck they could get away with instancing one of the newbie areas in what should have been a static part of the game. I laughed my ass off for about 4 minutes, collected myself, and logged out.

A while later, after the XP changes went through, I saw a copy of EQ2 at my local Walmart for $8.99 on clearance. I figured with some of the changes I was seeing I would give it try, and being that it only cost me $9.32 after tax, I wasn't giving SOE any money to make me feel guilty about supporting their business ethics. So I installed it, patched, cancelled the subscription immediately so I wouldn't be billed by mistake if I forgot to cancel, and gave it another go.

While some of the systems were better, leveling was faster, and the ridiculous XP debt sharing program was gone, I realized that the level design and world design was still piss poor. Nothing had any life to it what so ever. It was almost as bad as watching those NPC's in Star Wars Galaxies script the same emotes over and over again while never moving, or saying anything. The quests were boring and lacked any ending, the cities were completely empty and devoid of life from other players. The players I knew on the server had all quit and left to go play WoW, CoV, or to try other MMORPG's like Eve Online. The itemization was boring, and the general lack of anyone to play with was a nail in the coffin. I lasted about 2 weeks of casual play to see that nothing had changed in the game itself with regards to just making a fun game. I never tried crafting however. I loved crafting in SWG though. Too bad they ruined that game. Combine that with the fact that even if I did somehow like EQ2, there would be no way I could trust Smedley not to come up with some hap hazard decisions thrown down to Hartsman that will force the game and the work people have done into nothing with some horrid NGE like change, or placement of Massive Inc billboards in EQ2 to bring down that immersion factor even more. Or if they come out with a quest/event, if it even works in the first place while I waste time trying to figure it out. I am the kind of player that loves to go on long quests and figure things out without spoilers. To say I would be pissed if the quest never existed and I spent 6 months of off and on play time using some of that to chase something that didn't exist anyway, pissed would be an understatement. Half the time in EQ I was more worried about a quest working and all that time spent on a quest giving me a reward, than actually playing the quest. And that continued on into EQ2 because I know the company and what they are capable of.

All in all when my free time finally frees up next week, (I have had a busy year in real life in dealing with a career change) I will be logging back into Mal'Ganis to play with my guild Elitist Jerks.