1.8.4 ten minute rule

ex-genj · 12-06-2005, 03:10 AM

* Battles must now last at least ten minutes after the start of the battle in order for the losing team to receive a Mark of Honor.

Quite possibly.

The stupidest.

Thing ever implemented in this game.

absolutely stunning the idiocy involved in this one.

My server is alliance heavy and there is usually a heavy 30-60 minute wait to get into AB. As of 1.8.4 there is zero reason for a horde player to not immediatly /afk when they see our guild group. When 1.9 comes out with the 15 minute deserter rule there will be zero reason for horde pugs to queue up at all when they face guild groups 1/2 the time. The only thing keeping the anemic bgs going was the free token for losing. With that gone it basically kills battlegrounds.

Froofy-D · 12-06-2005, 03:16 AM

Bad call blizz. PUG vs. arranged team rarely goes 10 mins in either AB or WSG. Maybe they wanna crack down on the AB fishermen? Its not like anyone is going to make High Warlord on an intentional loss team.

redav · 12-06-2005, 03:24 AM

What needs to be done is the join as group option should only que you against other players which joined as a group.

Zehn - Vhex · 12-06-2005, 03:25 AM

Another "we can't figure out a way to fix shit, so let's nerf it all!" solution brought to you buy the company that took 8 months to get rid of Fangtooth.

All this does is make it so that idle-groups just need to play hide-the-flag/defend ze farm/stables grabass for 7 minutes, then they go back to watching Monoke hentai.

If they really wanted to deal with organized pugs that chain lose on purpose to get marks, all they'd really have to do is make it so that you have to get a certain number of kills as a team to get a mark, say 3 for wsg and 5 for AB.

If you suck that bad as a legit pug you don't deserve a mark anyways, and if one team allows the idle team to get the min kills to get a mark that's colluding and the GM's should suspend that shit.

That would however require them to take time out of waiting for people to log off so they can send them a "Delete your wtf folder, if that doesn't work, send and email to ignoreme@blizzard.techsupport.com" to any and every problem that crops up in game, including the infamous "We zoned into a fresh MC and there were no mobs" bug of yore.

This all stems from a poorly designed system to begin with though, so what can you expect? So much potential. 8(

Arbitrary · 12-06-2005, 03:31 AM

It will kill BGs on my server. We are still pretty new, and the Horde both has greater numbers and a greater percentage of people who participate in BGs. The same patterns happen all the time.

Queue up at the start of the day, BGs don't start until 3-4 pm. First one we get stomped due to being hugely outnumbered. The Alliance do not requeue. Another hour or two later another BG starts, if we get worked, and then worked again, there won't be another one for a while.

Nothing kills morale than losing before the 5 minute mark because you were outnumbered at LEAST 2:1.

So, let me get this straight. I queue up into a fight that I have no chance, get nothing because I lost in less than ten minutes, and the other side gets their three marks for the success? Even though the BG should never have spawned at 6 to 15 in the first place?

I'm sorry? What the fuck?

All this does is punish the weaker side on every server. It doesn't just punish them, it makes the entire event such a waste of time that attendance will go right in the shitter. If we aren't going to queue up, then the Horde can stand around with their dicks in their hands, and when a BG finally does spawn, they will steamroll their outnumbered opponents, and having gotten nothing for their time, the Alliance won't sign back up.

What we are going to see happen is agreements made across factions to at least have a BG take ten minutes.

Dear Horde - If you don't allow BGs to go ten minutes we won't play in them. Thanks.

If a fight ends too quickly then everyone involved should get 1 mark. Rankings systems don't reward you for scrapping newbs off your boot. You need to beat people at or above your own rank to get anywhere. Winning AB in 3 minutes should have less spoils going to the victor instead of telling the loser to get the fuck out and don't come back.

Kasonic · 12-06-2005, 03:34 AM

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing a "game has to go to 10 minutes or winners get 1 mark" rule, at least in WSG, as the current fad on our realm board is to complain about my guild group's plowing, and that would only make it more fun.

Zaptruder · 12-06-2005, 04:13 AM

Yeah... they're pretty much making BGs a reserve for sadists and masochists now.

It's sad, because you can't even go in to enjoy a nice even well played out game just for the sheer sake of enjoyment.

Borzak · 12-06-2005, 04:26 AM

It's not uncommon on my pvp server for one side to win legit in under 10 minutes if they are a top pvp guild of lt. generals and above etc...

Many times I've seen BG's where one side was all full time pvpers with full epics going against a PUG of lvl 60's some of which are still wearing greens in places and capture all 3 flags without the other side getting or even picking up one. Same for AB they go from one end to the other and control all 5 nodes in minutes even with the PUG side trying as best they can.

Better yet you can wait in a que now to get in a BG - play for 30 seconds and it finish before you even know what's going on and not get a medal and ahve to go thru the que again. GG.

Cybsled · 12-06-2005, 05:02 AM

There is a horde group on our server that plays together 24/7. They will literally steamroll an Alliance PUG in under 10 minutes.

Combine this with the penalty for /afk out in 1.9, and you have a massive recipe for WTF.

Did Blizzard forget that the tokens were a reward for not quiting? Now they've decided they will punish quiters AND punish the team that gets owned.

I've had zero reason to play BG for awhile now. I have no regular team and joining most alliance pugs is a %90 chance of getting spanked unless it's a horde pug you're matched against.

Sigurdur · 12-06-2005, 05:11 AM

The guy who came up with meeting stones convinces them to throw another winner in our direction.

I thought things were looking up when they fired Fangtooth.

Nicky · 12-06-2005, 05:13 AM

Honestly, how retarded is getting rewarded at all for losing a game in the first place? This change is a fix horde players making fishing teams to allow themselves to get steamrolled for a token and end up with more honor on bonus weekends than well geared steamroll teams. Great change IMO. You can predict this change ending BG's all you want, but it wont happen. People will still pvp cause it's fun.

If you can keep 1 node, the game will last longer than 10 minutes. This change will be good, as people will be forced to actually attempt at defending vs well geared teams, thus making them better players.

painbringer · 12-06-2005, 05:22 AM

>as people will be forced to actually attempt at defending vs well geared teams, thus making them better players.

Trust me on this, for a ragtag pickup group, fighting against a coordinated group where their healers has more armor than your tanks, wont make you better players. If everyone on your team was called Rambo, and played by fatality, you'd still lose.

If anything, honor should be HEAVILY reduced for the winners aswell when it's unbalanced / premade teams.

Make two queues, one for pug's, one for premade teams.
pug's fighting premade teams ain't gonna work anyway.

AngryDwarf · 12-06-2005, 05:25 AM

I'm trying to think of the logic that Blizzard was using when implimenting this. I don't get it? Were people really raking in $$ faction from chain-losing games in under 10 mins? Maybe it was more of a problem than I realize, but it was never something that I saw happening. It seems pretty contradictory to the booby prize of 1 token for a loss, now you only get it if you manage to last 10 mins?

Why punish the people on the lower pop factions for sticking it out when they are outnumbered? Especially now that they will be punished for afk'ing as well. Let Johnny casual get his mark of honor if he stays in the game with his pug and takes it like a man while an organized group rolls him. At least then he might queue up again.

InterWill · 12-06-2005, 05:30 AM

What if you played a really even game that lasted a long time and still only got 1 honor mark? Before the change you got as much for a game where you only waited to be slaughtered as you did for a game which was close to the finishing line. This change is welcomed.

Borzak · 12-06-2005, 05:36 AM

I think the change is in response to the very top end players of opposing factions "trading" games. It has happened on our server in WSG and AB for a while but supposidly it's not anymore. One team would sit at the entrance while the other team won quickly and then repeat on the other side. It was only happening in pre-made groups of the players who were going for rank 12+ in coordinated groups who were seeing the same opposing teams 12+ hours a day in BG's.

12-06-2005, 03:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
ex-genj Sean and I soloed Inno with Mistwalkers in 99 Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 770 -4 Internets	1.8.4 ten minute rule * Battles must now last at least ten minutes after the start of the battle in order for the losing team to receive a Mark of Honor. Quite possibly. The stupidest. Thing ever implemented in this game. absolutely stunning the idiocy involved in this one. My server is alliance heavy and there is usually a heavy 30-60 minute wait to get into AB. As of 1.8.4 there is zero reason for a horde player to not immediatly /afk when they see our guild group. When 1.9 comes out with the 15 minute deserter rule there will be zero reason for horde pugs to queue up at all when they face guild groups 1/2 the time. The only thing keeping the anemic bgs going was the free token for losing. With that gone it basically kills battlegrounds.

12-06-2005, 05:02 AM	#9 (permalink)
Cybsled Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,268 +14 Internets	There is a horde group on our server that plays together 24/7. They will literally steamroll an Alliance PUG in under 10 minutes. Combine this with the penalty for /afk out in 1.9, and you have a massive recipe for WTF. Did Blizzard forget that the tokens were a reward for not quiting? Now they've decided they will punish quiters AND punish the team that gets owned. I've had zero reason to play BG for awhile now. I have no regular team and joining most alliance pugs is a %90 chance of getting spanked unless it's a horde pug you're matched against. __________________ Training the citizens of Norrath from 1999-2003!

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12-06-2005, 03:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
Froofy-D upper management material Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,000 +8 Internets	Bad call blizz. PUG vs. arranged team rarely goes 10 mins in either AB or WSG. Maybe they wanna crack down on the AB fishermen? Its not like anyone is going to make High Warlord on an intentional loss team.

12-06-2005, 03:24 AM	#3 (permalink)
redav Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 532 +0 Internets	What needs to be done is the join as group option should only que you against other players which joined as a group.

12-06-2005, 03:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 6,459 +61 Internets	Another "we can't figure out a way to fix shit, so let's nerf it all!" solution brought to you buy the company that took 8 months to get rid of Fangtooth. All this does is make it so that idle-groups just need to play hide-the-flag/defend ze farm/stables grabass for 7 minutes, then they go back to watching Monoke hentai. If they really wanted to deal with organized pugs that chain lose on purpose to get marks, all they'd really have to do is make it so that you have to get a certain number of kills as a team to get a mark, say 3 for wsg and 5 for AB. If you suck that bad as a legit pug you don't deserve a mark anyways, and if one team allows the idle team to get the min kills to get a mark that's colluding and the GM's should suspend that shit. That would however require them to take time out of waiting for people to log off so they can send them a "Delete your wtf folder, if that doesn't work, send and email to ignoreme@blizzard.techsupport.com" to any and every problem that crops up in game, including the infamous "We zoned into a fresh MC and there were no mobs" bug of yore. This all stems from a poorly designed system to begin with though, so what can you expect? So much potential. 8(

12-06-2005, 03:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
Kasonic dumb Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,627 +1 Internets	Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing a "game has to go to 10 minutes or winners get 1 mark" rule, at least in WSG, as the current fad on our realm board is to complain about my guild group's plowing, and that would only make it more fun.

12-06-2005, 04:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
Zaptruder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 201 +0 Internets	Yeah... they're pretty much making BGs a reserve for sadists and masochists now. It's sad, because you can't even go in to enjoy a nice even well played out game just for the sheer sake of enjoyment.

12-06-2005, 04:26 AM	#8 (permalink)
Borzak Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 709 +0 Internets	It's not uncommon on my pvp server for one side to win legit in under 10 minutes if they are a top pvp guild of lt. generals and above etc... Many times I've seen BG's where one side was all full time pvpers with full epics going against a PUG of lvl 60's some of which are still wearing greens in places and capture all 3 flags without the other side getting or even picking up one. Same for AB they go from one end to the other and control all 5 nodes in minutes even with the PUG side trying as best they can. Better yet you can wait in a que now to get in a BG - play for 30 seconds and it finish before you even know what's going on and not get a medal and ahve to go thru the que again. GG.

12-06-2005, 05:11 AM	#10 (permalink)
Sigurdur Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 61 +0 Internets	The guy who came up with meeting stones convinces them to throw another winner in our direction. I thought things were looking up when they fired Fangtooth.

12-06-2005, 05:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
Nicky Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Medivh Posts: 19 +0 Internets	Honestly, how retarded is getting rewarded at all for losing a game in the first place? This change is a fix horde players making fishing teams to allow themselves to get steamrolled for a token and end up with more honor on bonus weekends than well geared steamroll teams. Great change IMO. You can predict this change ending BG's all you want, but it wont happen. People will still pvp cause it's fun. If you can keep 1 node, the game will last longer than 10 minutes. This change will be good, as people will be forced to actually attempt at defending vs well geared teams, thus making them better players.

12-06-2005, 05:22 AM	#12 (permalink)
painbringer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 259	>as people will be forced to actually attempt at defending vs well geared teams, thus making them better players. Trust me on this, for a ragtag pickup group, fighting against a coordinated group where their healers has more armor than your tanks, wont make you better players. If everyone on your team was called Rambo, and played by fatality, you'd still lose. If anything, honor should be HEAVILY reduced for the winners aswell when it's unbalanced / premade teams. Make two queues, one for pug's, one for premade teams. pug's fighting premade teams ain't gonna work anyway.

12-06-2005, 05:30 AM	#14 (permalink)
InterWill Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 60 +0 Internets	What if you played a really even game that lasted a long time and still only got 1 honor mark? Before the change you got as much for a game where you only waited to be slaughtered as you did for a game which was close to the finishing line. This change is welcomed.

12-06-2005, 05:36 AM	#15 (permalink)
Borzak Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 709 +0 Internets	I think the change is in response to the very top end players of opposing factions "trading" games. It has happened on our server in WSG and AB for a while but supposidly it's not anymore. One team would sit at the entrance while the other team won quickly and then repeat on the other side. It was only happening in pre-made groups of the players who were going for rank 12+ in coordinated groups who were seeing the same opposing teams 12+ hours a day in BG's.