"Go here and do this" task questing in WoW

[frott]

So, picking up the lastest priest quest in Azshara, and having it be yet another quest where the NPC explicitly tells me exactly what to get and where to go I recalled EQ questing.

On nearly the completely opposite end of the spectrum, most of those EQ quests (sans spoilers) actually had you creatively problem solving: solving riddles, figuring out vague clues, and yeah sometimes going through the:

"/say What are you talking about?"
"/say Quest?"
"/say What quest?"
"/say Task?"
"/say What task would you have me do?"
"/say What bold adventurer?"
"/say Require?"
"/say fuck you bitch tell me what you require"

guesswork trying to trigger the damn NPC speech triggers/

In EQ those quests could be pain because of the lack of soloability, but in WoW we see a completely different dynamic. At times in EQ, you'd slam your head in frustration wondering why the NPC didn't just fucking tell you exactly what they needed. Now we're slamming our heads in frustration because 99% of the quests are precise and "tasks" moreso than "quests."

There is little guesswork/problem solving save for a few exceptions: Librams and a small handful of others: it's definitely never "Hey guys, lets try to figure this or that quest out." It's always "Hey guys, I need to finish this or that."

I think one dynamic that could be explored more is that of a "flavor text" of an NPC giving a hint as to what or where a "What's this I've stumbled upon?" quests, like the Linken quest or any of the dropped quests, begin. Message in the bottle quest is great as well. Corpse running back to BRD for the first time is precious.

But I mean, give me a fucking break with the patch notes saying THERE IS A NEW NPC IN THIS ONE ZONE THAT MAKES YOU DO QUEST TO GET NEW POWER.

Gone are the days of "Hey, I have all this shit in my inventory and I don't know what it's for!" And in many ways, good riddance, but in other ways we could use a bit more of it. And not in that "holy shit lololol i rolled NEED on 104 coinz in ZG!! IM SUPPER MARIO"

Along the same lines dropped recipes, for instance, should be awesome because they explicitly tell you how to make something, allow you to make a more advanced version of some item, or guarantee or otherwise increase success. They shouldn't necessarily be required to craft. For instance, any tradeskiller, once they figure out the combination could attempt to do the combine at a low success rate without the recipe.

I had this ex EQ tradeskill pang in Zul Gurub... first, seeing a new mining node and then some strange herb drops. Many in my guild spouted "Ooooh, I wonder what that's for?" to 100 instant replies "Oh, blah blah wants that to make the super-friends faction version of the ultra-kill potion located at 29,19."

I understand relying on "security by obscurity" is impossible with hive-mind sites spoiling quests before they're even live, but I for one have taken pains to avoid the spoilers and still discover crap that I've missed that ends up being really rewarding in terms of lore and the dreaded I-word, immersion... The Fordring quest for instance.

I know it's a bit much to have an npc flavor text say "Bleeblah looks at you crosseyed ..." and that ellipses meaning that he wants something, and that something being collecting a bat eye and combining it with the broken bottle in the moonwell to make Gooey Glass, then taking it to the hellforge and combining that with 3 coal, 2 fireworks and a nightfin snapper to create "Fish Mask Impaled by Gooey Glass" that has flavor text "Maybe a doofus would enjoy this!" and expect you to connect the dots... or is it?

[Cad]

Problem is, if they don't tell you about it in the patch notes and make it relatively clear what to do, nobody will know about it until 5 months from now when someone stumbles across it. Meanwhile everyone will be crybabying on the forums about how they haven't added class content and blah blah blah.

I did most of the mage quest in about 25-30 minutes, now I have to go kill a drake in sunken temple. No biggie!

I'm fairly happy with the quest line overall.

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by Cad

Problem is, if they don't tell you about it in the patch notes and make it relatively clear what to do, nobody will know about it until 5 months from now when someone stumbles across it. Meanwhile everyone will be crybabying on the forums about how they haven't added class content and blah blah blah.

I'm sure someone would notice the big ass orange ? over the npc's head sooner than that.

As for the people who cry on forums, fuck them. 99.97% of all b.net posts should be just flat out ignored. When did people become such pussies about patch notes anyway? Something gets left out, and 3945803 dumbfucks have a screaming fit about "stealth" changes. I can't be the only person who preferred the old EQ days of absolute minimal detail in patch notes. Sure it created the legion of retards who claimed jboots were nerfed every patch, but the rest of us knew those people were retards (except for the times when they actually did nerf jboots ^^ ).

[Zehn - Vhex]

Part of the reason EQ's system was so mysterious and dynamic was that you had a 80% chance of any 'new' quest...or fuck even one that's been around for 3 years....being broken.

As much as I macro asking every new NPC I passed 5000 questions just in the odd chance it had a quest, it wasn't exactly a dynamic or fun system. You say "Sans spoilers" like there was anything else. Shit, if you really want to play "sans spoilers" just get someone to write a mod for you that takes out the quest breakdown in your log book.

Suffice it to say, it was annoying.

That being said, I wouldn't call WoW's system perfect either.

Ideally, I'd like a system where you are given tasks, favors, bounties and quests. You wouldn't have to swap up the quests much, but definition is everything. The "Slay the dragon!" quest would feel a little more epic if "Go find timmy's glasses, a murloc stole them!" wasn't also a quest.

There was never much mysetery to EverQuest. You were usually told exactly what you needed and how to get it, just not where it was. So it was a bit of a trade off, the truly hardcore could trailblaze and find the quest for themselves, everybody else just typed "/ooc where's this goddamn fish?" or hit up graffes/allah's/eqcasters.

Yes some mystery would be nice, I admit. But here, if this doesn't make your spine cringe you didn't play Horde.

WHERE IS MANKRIK'S WIFE?!?

[Zehn - Vhex]

For the record though, I'm not against "Okay, I know I need this shit...but what for?" questing, like PoM was (minus the annoying poofing of cards on invalid combines, god I rubbed three out when that was fixed). It was rather fun to watch as people figured that zone out.

However, killing a gnoll in the dreadlands and having it drop "a yellow whip" and keep it in your bank for 2 years because "You just never know!" was annoying. Is it a super rare drop for a super awesome quest? Maybe it's going to be part of some epic quest down the road! Omgosh!

As for tradeskill stuff, WoW makes more sense. I don't know about you, but throwing 20 different things into a pot and going "OKAY LET'S SEE WHAT COMES OUT!" tskilling in EQ was silly. If it means knowing what all the tradeskill items are and what they are for, so be it.

And fuck failing combines. Fuck them in the ass. It's gay in Eq1, it's even gayer in EQ2, and I imagine it's going to be all kinds of rainbow colored faggotry in Vanguard.

[crrimson death]

I agree that a happy medium between laying all the info in your face and leaving you completely in the dark would be nice. One thing that i always liked was that lots of quests were solved with the help of lots of people;

"this guy said he's looking for something blue."

"Hey, i found something blue at the farm of eastbumfuck, see if thats what you need"

...and eventually the quest is completed. But once its solved, everyone knows that the blue thing the guy is talking about is from the farm of eastbumfuck. Whether its from a spoiler site, or you asked your guildmate.

I don't know what it is, but something feels different as far as questing goes in WoW(aside from the fact that there are millions of them). Maybe it's the fact that Quest drops appear for everyone, not just those who have the quest. People could buy and sell quest items which was nifty.

I guess what im saying is that you can't rely on quests to make gameplay intersting. They're always going to be solved and get spoiled.

...WHich leades me to: TOo many quests/tasks/missions etc.. in my opinion.
A few quests for exp/lore/to induce travel are ok, but flooding the game with them is kind of a bummer. It seems to divert everyones attention to the tasks/mssions and away from interacting and exploring. I much more prefer " lets go to a castle/dungeon/cave/etc and fight some named mobs, and see what we can get for loots/exp!?

Make some armor quests at a few different levels, some nice item quests here and there, and 1 or 2 crazy epic quests, and like i said a few quests for exp/lore/to induce travel.

meh

[Kasonic]

Originally Posted by Zehn_Druidbane

WHERE IS MANKRIK'S WIFE?!?

On my second or third alt(I forget which), I made a macro that spammed "WHERE'S KRANAL FISS?!?!" in every channel whenever someone asked.

It got a lot of use.

[crrimson death]

And fuck failing combines. Fuck them in the ass. It's gay in Eq1, it's even gayer in EQ2, and I imagine it's going to be all kinds of rainbow colored faggotry in Vanguard.

yes, fuck failing combines...Which is why i think they were a good idea. knowing you might fail made success sooooo much better.

Do you have any idea how psyched i was when i completed my coldain shawl?

[Braen]

Originally Posted by Zehn_Druidbane

For the record though, I'm not against "Okay, I know I need this shit...but what for?" questing, like PoM was (minus the annoying poofing of cards on invalid combines, god I rubbed three out when that was fixed). It was rather fun to watch as people figured that zone out.

However, killing a gnoll in the dreadlands and having it drop "a yellow whip" and keep it in your bank for 2 years because "You just never know!" was annoying. Is it a super rare drop for a super awesome quest? Maybe it's going to be part of some epic quest down the road! Omgosh!

As for tradeskill stuff, WoW makes more sense. I don't know about you, but throwing 20 different things into a pot and going "OKAY LET'S SEE WHAT COMES OUT!" tskilling in EQ was silly. If it means knowing what all the tradeskill items are and what they are for, so be it.

And fuck failing combines. Fuck them in the ass. It's gay in Eq1, it's even gayer in EQ2, and I imagine it's going to be all kinds of rainbow colored faggotry in Vanguard.

Man you take shots at EQ2 tradeskills like you have a level 50 Tailor and are currently playing it.

When was the last time you Tradeskilled in EQ2? Beta? Just after release? The changes made over the last few months alone in limiting the interdepenancy and redefining of the buffs has made tradeskilling in Eq2 enjoyable and actually worthwhile.

You cannot fail a combine in EQ2. If you think that dying cause of missed reactions was gay.. well I guess you got me there. It tries to force you to pay attention and react and not AFK, although I know people with some good macro setups to avoid being at the table.

I have never died in EQ2 while tradeskilling. I find it impossible to do if you are actually paying attention and crafting the right way.

I find EQ2 tradeskilling fun and needed in a guild. Our little guild has many members doing crafting and they do it cause they enjoy it not cause it is expected or we make them. I usually have new people asking whtat TSing we need and start it on their own without asking. If it was so gay and boring, no one would do it.

[Luthair]

I've been saying for a long time WoW needs to differentiate between quests and tasks. The later mostly being mdk and collects, the former could be divided into mercenary tasks and 'epic' (as in heroic).

Without the chance to fail on combine the components need to be rarer in order to limit the rate they enter the world. The limitation needs to happen at one point or another to prevent flooding.

The number of broken quests in EverQuest wasn't anywhere near 80%, but I agree hunting for keywords was silly. Also, as I recall rarely did quests tell you exactly what was needed, it was generally either a vague description or the item or location.

[Zehn - Vhex]

I dunno man, I feel pretty good about just gathering the materials for some things. "Yes, fucking done!" is good enough for me. I don't need the added fun of, "okay, now I just gotta find someone with a 300 skill, who has the +15 mod, along with the +20 skill talent, and the +5 enchant...good, now I have a 15% chance of success!"

Anyways...

When was the last time you Tradeskilled in EQ2?

Two weeks ago. Got up about to lv 34, said, "what the fuck is this shit?" and quit. I'm sorry, but Tskills in EQ2 are retarded. No you can't 'fail' fail, but you can end up with shitty quality stuff which unless you're working with adept spells/abilities, is fucking annoying. I was having nightmares about pristine demons raping my butthole.

If it was so gay and boring, no one would do it.

You obviously need to learn more about humanity and -especially- video gamers.

[Braen]

Originally Posted by Zehn_Druidbane

you can't 'fail' fail, but you can end up with shitty quality stuff which unless you're working with adept spells/abilities, is fucking annoying. I was having nightmares about pristine demons raping my butthole.

Tradeskilling reactions don't have adept versions like combat Arts and spells. They level with you and aren't upgradable. They only "upgrade" is that you get the "next" version of it as you level up in your chosen tradeskill.

They were listed as App 1 in beta and release.. but haven't been labeled (incorrectly I might add) in a long time.

The factor of how "shitty" your items will be is your skill in the tradeskill you are working with. i.e. Metalworking and your reactions you use. You keep your quality above a certain point, you get pristine/shaped/base/crude.

If you were playing 2 weeks ago you would know this.

Now to the main topic:

There needs to be more Mystery in the questing. Let players figure things out logically or discover it by accident. I know Spoiler sites will exist, but it is choice to use them. Now a days every part is mapped out for you and you know exactly where to go and what to do. you aren't playing a game you are connecting the dots.

[crrimson death]

I dunno man, I feel pretty good about just gathering the materials for some things. "Yes, fucking done!" is good enough for me.

yea, I was also pretty psyched when i got the final arcanite bar for my reaper.

I guess, either retarded ridiculously rare items, or retarded ridiculous fail rates can be good if implimented properly

that is of course, if they don't decide on a whim to nerf the item that was so hard to create

[Kevincheese]

I think the quest system, for the most part, for the task types, is just fine. Gives you something interesting to do while leveling, and help you level. Instead of grinding all the way to 60.

[Malakie Torsade]

Originally Posted by crrimson death

yes, fuck failing combines...Which is why i think they were a good idea. knowing you might fail made success sooooo much better.

Do you have any idea how psyched i was when i completed my coldain shawl?

This is akin to being hit in the face every morning with a hammer. One day you wake up and... no hammer face! This doesn't mean not getting hit the face is a great experience; it's just that taking it in the skull sucks.

The Coldain shawl quests were horrid. Having a chance to fail on a quest is fine. However, when having to refarm shit over and over again because the RNG didn't work in your favor was terrible.

EDIT : As for the WoW quests, one big thing I didn't like is that it almost always told you what you'd get when you finished. Now, obviously if someone is asking you to do something for them, they will often tell you what they will give you in return. However, I think that this should be the exception.

Also, I agree there should be more quests that do not tell you excactly where you need to go, like the quest to kill the named tiger in STV (not Banglesh, the other one.) Not that it really matters though. If the quest doesn't have a specific loc, you'll just get people spamming general chat or checking thottbot. However, it would be a nice thing for those who don't want to have everythind spelled out for them.