Thinking of trying Final Fantasy Online...

[Eida]

So. I'm bored to tears with the new crop of games and BF2 can only consume so much of my alotted gaming time.

For those of you that have played FFO, tell me what you liked/hated about it.

A part of me (after having my hopes for WoW be dashed to pieces across non-sharp, casual gamer rocks) yearns for a game needing tight group tactics and a fearsome grind.

So, I confess to masochism -- what information can you give me on FFO and how long will it take me of actual playtime to make an informed descision on whether I will like it.

thxlol!11!

[Braen]

I have a guild In EQ2 that is build from members of this and other forums. We have having a good time, You might try it out. Send me a PM if interested.

[Itzena]

What happened to the EQ1 guild?

[Braen]

Originally Posted by Itzena

What happened to the EQ1 guild?

Many stayed around a while and then started showing up less and less. You need numbers in EQ1 to be successful. We have 5-10 regulars. In EQ2 you don't need as many as raids are 24 men max and the lower level stuff can be done wiht 6-12. With all the changes that have been made to Eq2 it is a much more enjoyable game. SOme of the ones from EQ1 have come over since they have All Access Passes. There are still a coupel that still play EQ1 too.

[Fammaden]

Most people from this board seemed to know how they felt about it very quickly after they tried it. I know I did, and I was one of the few that seemed to like it at the time for more than a week or two. It took me a year to decide that I was done with it and uninterested in continuing as a high-end player, but I don't regret spending time with the game at all.

I find it hard to really get into a discussion over the game's merits and drawbacks with someone who is as yet uninitiated to the specific nuances of the game. Looking back however, especially in comparison to WoW, one thing I liked was that you did need to group to do any meaningful advancement, the grouping fostered interdependent dynamics to achieve the highest reward, and you could have a tight knit group of regular friends to play with and be somewhat autonomous (as long as you kept your playtimes equal and choose balanced jobs). Even at the high end you could do quite a bit of content with only a few groups, which I think is a breath of fresh air compared to WoW's forty man and EQ's seventy fucking two man monstrous raids. This is a prime reason I am holding out hope on DDO, small group centric design. The biggest exception in FFXI is the very high-end dynamis encounters, which, although technically well done, seem out of place in terms of numbers needed compared to the rest of the game's high level content and were no small part of my dissatisfaction with the game in the end.

The game to some will be best played with a static group of friends. If you don't have that luxury and you don't mind logging in as a nobody, then the game is group centric enough to get you a place in the community pretty quickly. There should be a pretty significant amount of players still leveling in all the different ranges of the games hot spots thanks to multiclassing and the need/desire for people to level up new jobs. In fact, at this point most of the North Americans doing so probably have a much better grasp of group roles and MMO dynamics than they did when I started back at NA release. If you don't know anyone just be sure to make good use of your friend and ignore lists, solid advice for any MMO but often forgotten in the post EQ world of traveling everywhere surrounded by your guild like a protective bubble from the great unwashed.

Other than those basic thoughts, just use your experience from other MMO's to guide you. It is not that different in many ways, and large parts of how the game plays out are actually quite similar to pre Luclin EQ. Just remember to do the quests as you go, you will be glad you did later in more ways than one. Especially the rank quests, which are the main storyline and not really skipped by anyone but they deserve a mention because they deserve to be experienced if for no other reason than to see the groovy cut scenes.

I would also recommend getting a controller or a USB adaptor for your PS2 game pad. Maybe even just pick up the PS2 version if you have a nice home entertainment center and/or a shitty PC. Good luck.

[Dyscord]

I played FFO and I detested it. I tried REALLY hard to like it, but I just couldn't get over it.

First, the UI was the most god awful thing I've ever seen in an MMO. Throwback from it being a console game I guess.

Second, it took what seemed like a GOD AWFUL amount of time for it to get interesting. After two weeks I was still level 13 (if I remember correctly). I had like 2 skills. I died a lot too, and death is back to the old EQ model of losing a ton of Exp. I spent a lot of time punching or slashing bees and worms. VERY heroic.

Thats the game to me colored by my perceptions. The lower levels should have moved a LOT quicker than they did. In WoW and hell, even in EQ (if you were a caster) you had a LOT of skills to use by level 13. In FFO I spent the vast majority of my time standing in front of a bee auto attacking. If you can't tell, I quit at level 13, so you can't gauge the 'end' or even middle game from my experiences. Myself... I'd rather renew my Shadowbane account than play FFO again, and thats pretty harsh.

[Vinen]

Some Pros~

Well, currently I'm playing FFXI again because Verizon sucks dick and I gave up on them, so I'm stuck on 56k for the time being and well.. wow plays awful on 56k. So there is one advantage.. you can be on a slower connection and the game runs fine.

Another thing I like about FFXI is the job system. You have a Primary Job and a Sub Job. Which you can change around at any time. For example, I have 75 Red Mage, 41 Black Mage, 41 White Mage. If I wanted to I could be a 75RDM/37WHM | 75RDM/37BLM | 41WHM/20BLM | 41WHM/20RDM | 41BLM/20WHM | 41BLM/20RDM. You gain all the abilities your subjob has at that level except its "2 hour ability". Which is usually a desperation type attack or ability. For example, Red Mages get Chainspell which removes casting time and recast time on all their spells for 1 minute.

The Missions are also very nice." There are currently 5 differnt Mission Arcs in the game, Windurst, San'doria and Bastok, which are the "Rank Missions." The Zilart Missions, which unlock Tu'lia (Rise of the Zilart exp endgame region) and the long, painful, annoying, fun, shitty, fun, awesome, asswidening, Promathia Missions. Not having specific setups can fuck you over hard, some of the Single Group restricted battles have been known to take 10+ trys to win... primarily the Omega/Ultima Weapon BC. The Promathia Missions unlock multiple zones including the expansion endgame region.

The world is also incredible, it’s huge. The Travel system is incredible as well, Airships to all major cities, Chocobo, Ferry and teleportation. The teleportation is nice because it forces you to go to the telepoint at least once to pick up a key item.

There is an actual community.

Some Cons~

Not everyone speaks English; the majority of the players are Japanese on most servers.

The Endgame is "lacking." This does not mean that there isn't much to do when you max level on a job... it just means there isn’t enough content to meet the demands. Due to this SE has begun making every New "Uber Monster," either be a forced pop, or pop under some absurd conditions. Outside of that, there are highly contested and drama covered 21-24 hour respawn "Uber Monsters." Not to mention the utter bullshit of spending 2 hours killing Tiamat, only to watch her drop nothing............yes, "uber monsters" can drop nothing in FFXI, not that often but it does happen.

Rampant Stupidity, I should have put this as a pro... I guess. Since the stupidity level in FFXI is far lower then in WoW. But, its still there. I get into fights with Red Mages who melee and ignore there other job responsibilities whenever I level my BLM or WHM. Not to mention people who use inappropriate subjobs. BLM/Summoner 4tw??.....

Everyone looks the same...most people of each job end up wearing the same gear.

The patching system is worse then WoWs.

Meh, I could keep going on with pros and cons.. But I'm bored of it now.

[Pilsbane]

Originally Posted by Eida

So. I'm bored to tears with the new crop of games and BF2 can only consume so much of my alotted gaming time.

For those of you that have played FFO, tell me what you liked/hated about it.

A part of me (after having my hopes for WoW be dashed to pieces across non-sharp, casual gamer rocks) yearns for a game needing tight group tactics and a fearsome grind.

So, I confess to masochism -- what information can you give me on FFO and how long will it take me of actual playtime to make an informed descision on whether I will like it.

thxlol!11!

Assuming you mean Final Fantasy XI,

Yes, the game forces grouping (past about level 20, unless you are a beastmaster) and has a long grind. There are quests, but they don't give experience. The only method to leveling up is to grind mobs. The way experience chains are setup you end up picking a good spot and then staying there for hours pulling the same mobs over and over. Teamwork is highly important. The difference between getting chains of 5 or more of Incredibly Tough con mobs vs. not being able to chain them together for experience bonuses is huge (think 6k exp per hour vs 2k exp per hour).

Class balance was out-of-whack when I was playing. Way too many damage dealers. Take WoW, add 6 more classes that are only damage dealers and then make it forced grouping--that's FFXI class balance. I had Samurai and Dragoon friends that went days without groups.

I played a Redmage into the mid-50's. I just got tired of the grind. I was killing the EXACT same crabs (same size, same model, same color, same abilities, just more HP/damage) at 56 as I was at level 6.

[Designz]

I played FFXI for a year - on and off. What I really like about the game is how dynamic it is. The difference between a bad group and a good group is astounding. For example, you could get a good group and rake in 4-6k exp an hour, then get a bad group and suffer with 2k. Sure, this is frustrating at times, but it just shows how much a more experienced group can offer. This is the exact reason why many people opt to join static parties with people they know and people who play well.

This isn't your battlenet kiddie game: it takes more concentration any other MMORPG I've played. Many of the skills in the game are time based, giving you only 4-5 seconds to respond, so if you're playing and watching TV, chances are you'll suck. Not to be biased or anything, but one of the reasons that the game suffers is because there are so many American newbies who don't give the game respect. Almost all the Americans that I group with suck. They waste my time and make me feel hopeless about advancing. On the other hand, almost all the Japanese that I group with own. They are very organized and, most of the time, efficient (however, sometimes they take absurdly long rest times to be sure of safety, which Americans fail to do). The problem is I don't speak Japanese, so communicating with them isn't easy - luckily some of them speak English.

Anyway, I am just saying that this isn't WoW2. It takes a lot of patience and concentration when you first start out. The game is, therefore, not for everyone. Although I played it for a while, I didn't really love it like I did EQ. It gives me no memories, but it is a good waste of time if you ask me, heh.

Oh and about the UI, I recommend getting a controller, it is soooo much better. I don't know how many people have to tell you that.

[Fammaden]

It might be somewhat server specific, but for the record there are NA players who are worth grouping with, or there were where I was playing when I left. Just like EQ and WoW there are also Euros and of course many, many Asians. You will find people to group with and the English speaking population is not all bad. There are quite a few MMO newbs and children/fanboys who are too stupid to learn or refuse to "get it" for much the same reason that such nuisances exist in WoW, because of the strong drawing power of an established and successful franchise.

[Eida]

Okay. My roommates and I will be starting tonight or tomorrow and we could use three worldpasses to a server if anyone is feeling generous enough to provide that.

Also, I'm planning to start WHM ---> BRD.

My roommates are unsure of what they want to play, however one has preferred stealth/DPS in the past and the other leans toward magic/dps.

Both are willing to be flexible so that our trio is somewhat self-sufficient and/or can provide a core for a larger group.

Any advice?

[Fammaden]

You will need someone to be a warrior with the idea of becoming a paladin later. You will want a second healer if you plan to drop WHM for BRD. Another WHM would be ideal but RDM would work too and would mean insanely low downtime later on with the BRD in group. The healing caster slots are pretty flexible thanks to the fact that you will be leveling sub jobs together most likely. So that leaves two DPS, you will want the guy who likes DPS casters to go BLM with WHM as the most likely sub (yet another healer for leveling the subs and advanced jobs) and a melee dps. You can get by with pretty much any melee DPS but THF is very nice for the treasure hunter. Ranger is balls out DPS and ninja is respectable with a good option to tank as well, but both classes require tons of money in upkeep.

[Ssinurn]

Coming from a level 73 WHM/38 SMN/36 BLM here, I can give a /nod
to Vinen's assessments. The joys of making that perfect group, and
keeping the exp/hour rate plus skilled player execution are
balanced by getting in the idiot pickup group and soaking up the
groups and dying or trying to play a job thats less desired and
sitting around for hours...

The cons of the dying/loosing/exp, finding parties, the interface
woes, japanese player domination and NA player hate are often
reasons people leave the game. You said you are a masochist so the
other stuff people complain about shouldn't affect you. Its
basically a game where you have nearly never ending advancement
via the sub job and merit point system. The grind isn't *that*
bad, people complain but my level 73 is sitting around with
somewhere around 80 days played tops and I did raid at the high
end. I have god gear from Tu'lia and some more of the expensive
mage items. My mage hit level 70 easily with about 56 days played
or so and I definitely took the scenic route helping others.

As others have mentioned, community is key. Good LS, good friend
list, good static party friends = you have a great time. Lots of
access quests and this isn't the sort of game you can just hit
level whatever and go back and do them. You usually have to get
high level help or get the appropriate party willing to help.
Neglect any of it and you will have a harder time.

I would hop around the ffxionline.com, allakhazam's, and the
killingifrit.com forums for a bit and learning about your intended
server. Due to the rarity of character xfers, each community is
vastly different. Sure, some servers are dominated by japanese
only guilds, while others have NA domination or a mix like mine -
(Sylph). My LS there is a mix of Taiwanese and North American
players and can kill almost all the content in the game, as well
as compete for contested spawns (and hold them down I think we
kept Fafnir/Nidhogg down for 6+ months nightly at one point) and
work with other LSs on the server for some of the more heated
spawns to prevent the mpk'ing(training) and /yell'ing (making mob
not drop loot and killable by all) foolishness that happens at
times. On my server, several of the top end guilds are NA run, and
the one that isn't allows NA to join.

Botting (packet sniffing and engaging mobs) is fairly prevalent,
although square enix swears they are gonna start cracking down on
third party apps. The downside of this is just as Vinen said, on
most servers the high end game is filled with long camps and dirty
tricks. If you dont mind rolling spawns that can be anytime
(night, day, late morning/evening), or just don't want to fool
with high end at all you will be fine. GM policy is pretty
unevenly enforced and getting away with mpk'ing (training) a whole
dungeon on someone is not unheard of.

Above all if you have a small crew of dedicated friends (which it
sounds like you have), there is a lot of fun to be had. The
stealth/dps person should go THF NIN or DRK, NIN is freaking
expensive and not a newbie class but they are like Square's golden
children they can tank, solo and even keep up with black mages on
some levels. THF is good low levels and starts to suck for getting
groups later as they are replaced by DRK who start to shine at
level 60+. High end wise all 3 are needed to some extent. The
magic/dps should go BLM or SMN or possibly RDM, once again,
probably don't want to start with SMN as its not a newbie class.
SMN is a glorified WHM til post 70+ with the right equipment and
summons. Agree with Famm too though that one of you should
probably be a tank WAR > PLD. RNG is insane DPS, but also as
stated probably too much cost for a new player. WAR > PLD, WHM or
BRD, and RDM possibly SMN or BLM would work for you guys. If you
arent having trouble finding tanks then the WAR can go DRK or THF.

[Marauder]

My mage hit level 70 easily with about 56 days played
or so and I definitely took the scenic route helping others.

Your definition of hitting 70 easily made me throw up, just a little.

[Erathlyn]

With an ideal PT set up you can make 70+ in under 10 days played (not exhaggerating here either - realistically you could probably do it in less, my new char is lvl 53 with 3.5 days played). Exp required has been reduced a fair amount 50+.

I left ffxi to play WoW, realized how sucktastic WoW was if you played more than 10 hours a week, and went back to playing ffxi.

Some of the things I really like about ffxi:

Job system is great. I love the flexibility of being able to do different classes (jobs) with the same character, and having some flexibility by having main jobs and sub jobs. The main job/sub job can create at least some variability between play styles and characters (sam/rng - which you won't see much anymore with the latest nerf, rdm/whm vs rdm/blm, war vs nin sub, etc). I really hope some other games in the future will realize how much they are limiting people by saying you need new characters to play a different class.

With some friends/set group you do events and level with, the game is MUCH more enjoyable. If you are a loner, and play a job which doesn't get groups easily, expect to hate the game. I was a guild leader and had a set group of people relatively early on (played BST before that which was solo), so getting stuff done in ffxi isn't a problem for me.

Something I like about FFXI is relative balance. While there is still not perfect balance between jobs, SEX is not afraid to nerf jobs in order to assist in balance (making sometimes very large job changes). Generally speaking, FFXI does not have any twitch/knee-jerk reactions either to changes. The game also seems to try hard to keep items balanced. You will find that many upgrades are side upgrades and allows you to focus your character in certain abilities at a time (ex going for full magic boost, attack accuracy boost, hp/mp). Some items worth 3 mil 2 years ago are literally worth the same after factoring in inflation, which is pretty impressive planning/organization for items.

The new ENM system (which allows you to spawn BC type fights and get decent exp/items) and the BCNM system also work very well with 1 group type play.

FFXI is also generally speaking a very time consuming game -- dont expect to get something done fast here. The time consuming element is very different from WoW and in a sense allows you to consume more content before reaching the bored state. If you get bored doing one thing there are several different options to choose from, especially at a high level (farming, ENM, BCNM, HNM (if you like that), dynamis, crafting, levelling different jobs, missions, quests, etc). There is a lot to do. I also like the fact that FFXI has some "key" type EQ zones where you must meet prerequisites to get into the zone and it's not the easiest to complete the prereqs.


I didn't go over the con's, but there are plenty.