[Vanguard] - Sorcerer Class Information

[Fammaden]

This sounds to me pretty much like a skill chain or heroic opportunities type of system where multiple sorcerers can combine spells to make a bonus effect.

The question is whether any sorcerer can use every element or if some sort of specialist build or maybe your history of spell learning from mobs via perception determines what elements you can use.

“Ok, we have a tank, healer and puller now we need a water sorc and an earth sorc because these goblins hit really fast and if we cant use mud effects to slow them down then the healer will use too much mana per fight and our XP/hour will be cut in half! Does anyone know an earth or water sorc? There are only fires on right now and they are all soloing in the Frosted Wastes =(”

[Tuco]

This sounds to me pretty much like a skill chain or heroic opportunities type of system where multiple sorcerers can combine spells to make a bonus effect.

This was actually what I was thinking. I don't know much about FFXI's skill chains because I never played it, but it sounds like it 'could' be similar. IE: you could cast fire, then earth and come up with a magma effect, or something.

But it's all semi-useless speculation. I wouldn't comment on its validity until I played it.

[Dyscord]

It certainly sounds interesting, but the big question is... does it mean anything?

Sure, I can combine fire and earth to make magma... but is there a point more than saying it for flavor purposes? Sounds to me like you can have 8 spells instead of 4. Its just 4 of those spells require more button pushing. To make the system really worth while, you would need to be able to combine different amounts of the elements for different effects. Say fire is the damage/DoT element and air is the armor penetraiting element. You could have different levels of armor penatrating and different levels of damage depending on how much element you add of each. For instance, at your level of casting you can combine 10 'parts'. 5 parts fire 5 parts air gives equal damage and penetration. 8 parts fire 2 parts air gives much more damage but less penetration, useable against weakly armored foes. Heck, you could even undercast at 4 parts air, 2 parts fire and save mana on casting.

Unless how you mix elements has an effect on the spell the system is entirely superfical. If casting earth rank 8 and fire rank 8 causes magma rank 8... why not just cast magma rank 8 and save people a headache?

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Dyscord

It certainly sounds interesting, but the big question is... does it mean anything?

Sure, I can combine fire and earth to make magma... but is there a point more than saying it for flavor purposes? Sounds to me like you can have 8 spells instead of 4. Its just 4 of those spells require more button pushing. To make the system really worth while, you would need to be able to combine different amounts of the elements for different effects. Say fire is the damage/DoT element and air is the armor penetraiting element. You could have different levels of armor penatrating and different levels of damage depending on how much element you add of each. For instance, at your level of casting you can combine 10 'parts'. 5 parts fire 5 parts air gives equal damage and penetration. 8 parts fire 2 parts air gives much more damage but less penetration, useable against weakly armored foes. Heck, you could even undercast at 4 parts air, 2 parts fire and save mana on casting.

Unless how you mix elements has an effect on the spell the system is entirely superfical. If casting earth rank 8 and fire rank 8 causes magma rank 8... why not just cast magma rank 8 and save people a headache?

I would assume it is not just fluff. Like I mentioned, if it is like skill chains, then each spell would do damage then if you timed it right the two spells would combine to "burst" (in FFXI parlance) for extra damage and/or effects depending on the mob's resistances and weaknesses. The specifics will probably be different but I have little doubt that they are building on the SC/HO systems to incorporate this into combat technique. My question remains about how spells and skills are learned and what limits, if any, are there on what types and how many types your character can learn at once.

[Dandain]

Depending on functionality, and the inclusion of all classes (not just sorcerers) to be apart of these chains, skill combinations. This is a really great idea. For those that did play FFXI they will I'm sure all agree that the skillchain/magic burst system was by far the best and most creative aspect of the game. It kept your group communicating as well to keep up with timing. Experience chains (bonus exp for time between consequtive kills) were also a lot of fun as a bar by which to measure the efficiency of your exp group, and kept it fresh by pushing you to fit in that one final mob with less than full mana for the exp bonus. The rest of the game sucked, but these two aspects should definitely be emulated and copied.

[nyx]

This kind of reminds me of Final Fantasy, in a weird mmog way.
What if you had to concider every creature and see what it's weakness was, (using your perception)? A mage would come across a worg and concider it, depending on the level of perception the mage has, he would see what weakness it had. Lets say it's ice. He then goes to cast, and his spell wheel appears. Timing his cast, he varies the amount of power into each sphere (wind and water) and if he is good and lucky, he creates an ice cone blast.

Sounds fun, and I hope I'm guessing slightly close to the truth.

[Slick Willey]

Originally Posted by Dandain

For those that did play FFXI they will I'm sure all agree that the skillchain/magic burst system was by far the best and most creative aspect of the game. It kept your group communicating as well to keep up with timing. Experience chains (bonus exp for time between consequtive kills) were also a lot of fun as a bar by which to measure the efficiency of your exp group, and kept it fresh by pushing you to fit in that one final mob with less than full mana for the exp bonus.

But what about those players that like their MMORPGs to be a glorified chat room? Would a system like this prevent players from passing away the time by making small talk and silly jokes in group say or OOC? There is a real resistance from many "core" gamers to "fast" combat because it prevents this type of "gameplay" (if chatting can be considered gameplay).

[Taggle]

At the very least, it shows a dedication to lore and class distinction that other games have been lacking recently. Obviously, it has a lot of potential to go a bunch of different ways (anywhere from a click fest to a whack a mole to a research mechanic).

We wont know until we hear some reports or see a gameplay video.

At least it is refreshing to see some lore about classes again, and why they exist. Part of being a "monk" or "wizard" of EQ was fitting into the lore of the game world.

In EQII and WoW, they were more concerned about putting development time into quests and storyline that everyone fits into, rather than class specific stuff. It is refreshing to see some class distinction at this stage of the game, even in the lore.

Class specific quests, riddled with class specific lore, I feel, are a big part of why the classes in EQ were so distinguishable. After all, there wasn't much seperating a Paladin, Warrior and Shadow Knight in EQ, but there were seperate boards and communities for each of the classes. You dont see the same for EQII because not only are their skills similar, but so is the lore.

Just a thought.

[Qhue]

The Lore at least sounds like they are making an honest effort to have caster classes be less carbon copy. What will really matter is the actual implementation of these ideas. Afterall the stated variations in EQ2 sounded really cool but ended up being very vanilla when it was all said and done.

I cant wait to check some of this out in person *hint hint*

[Solmancer]

Fanguard is next week, Qhue! *hint hint* ;p

[Jait]

Originally Posted by Solmancer

Fanguard is next week, Qhue! *hint hint* ;p

Speaking of..... anyone here going?

[James]

I think you guys are missing the bigger picture and thinking inside the box. Spellcasters have been complaining about bland gameplay, rehashed mechanics, and other general spellcaster bullshit for damn near as long as I can remember...yet when a company goes out of its way to add flavor to that system you guys bash it and claim it as "nothing special." You know, maybe it will be nothing special, maybe it won't...we don't know. We do know that the Sigil team understands and recognizes a lot of problems that (other nameless MMORPG developers) have either full out ignored, or cast aside as a necessary evil. Fuck that. I welcome any new idea brought into this genre with open arms, and to see Sigil bringing in so many of them makes me happy in all the right places.

That said, I agree with an epic Fifth-Element quest. MULTIPASS!

[Jait]

Originally Posted by James

I think you guys are missing the bigger picture and thinking inside the box. Spellcasters have been complaining about bland gameplay, rehashed mechanics, and other general spellcaster bullshit for damn near as long as I can remember...yet when a company goes out of its way to add flavor to that system you guys bash it and claim it as "nothing special." You know, maybe it will be nothing special, maybe it won't...we don't know. We do know that the Sigil team understands and recognizes a lot of problems that (other nameless MMORPG developers) have either full out ignored, or cast aside as a necessary evil. Fuck that. I welcome any new idea brought into this genre with open arms, and to see Sigil bringing in so many of them makes me happy in all the right places.

That said, I agree with an epic Fifth-Element quest. MULTIPASS!

Damn Rosco, you're testier than me sometimes

I think most of us here appreciate what they're doing, but it's more a matter of speculation at present. We don't want twitch, and we don't want HO's+. Most anyway. Me certainly. The tedium and thought process should go into the casters creation of the spell, not the weaving of it. Combat is the time to put to use the things you've learned and sit back and enjoy the risk of the Encounter. It's not a time to play mash the button to the corresponding flashing icon, or "Whack a mole" as some people have eloquently put it. But rest assured most of us here do have faith in Brad and Co. Were just waiting for more infoz.

[DisgruntledOrangatang]

I think it would be cool if you could specialize in 2 elements or something and then at higher levels your sorcerer gets spells other specialized sorcerers don't. Of course you can cast any standard sorcerer spell of any element, but the two you specialize in would have greater dmg/effect as well as having access to those new spells (be it quest or just a vendor whatever).

[Braen]

...but I think it had a good line about what roles all classes will have in Vanguard. Posted by Elidroth

Whoever said our Paladin would be a healer?

All 4 of the protective fighters do their primary role equally well, however it's HOW they perform this role that makes the flavors different. Secondary roles also provide a great deal of flexibility in playstyle for players as do your other non-primary role abilities.

I've said this before.. you guys need to get the EQ model out of your head to a large extent, as we're taking new approaches to the old standards. I think you'll be pleased.