small, short battlegrounds

[FuckYou]

After participating in both BGs (or trying to in the case of AV) for a few weeks now, I think that small scale, short goal BGs are the way to go. WSG has it almost exactly right. 10v10 makes it so individual contribution can make a huge difference, and the average run is probably something in the range of 30-45 minutes. This is perfect for casual (not a lot of time) people and hardcore (have a lot of time) people since you can generally play for 2 or 10 hours without having to bail in the middle of a BG. Obviously there are problems getting an AV instance (or god forbid two) off the ground due to population issues, so it seems to me smaller is better in this case.

I think another game type that would translate well would be a 5v5 where first to X kills wins.

[Cybsled]

It's not PVP per say, but the Azshara BG hill setup gave me idea.

Know the WC3 game "hold the line" or Enfo's survival? Make it something like that. You enter BG. It's 10v10 or 5v5 or whatever. You all start on the top of the hill. Players buy monsters with "BG" gold. These monsters are added to the attack waves. Players have to fight them off before they reach the top, otherwise they lose a "life". You have 50 life points maybe. Every monster you kill nets you gold. Make it so different monsters take damage in different ways...like maybe make a monster take damage from heals so druids,shamans,priests,paladins get an advantage vs. them. Make a monster that takes massive damage from fire, etc. Also with the "BG" gold you can buy upgrades for your character that last during the match + launch offensive spells vs. the other side (A stun missle, a totem that drains mana, an npc that makes attacking monsters attack faster). Sort of an indirect PVP...the side that wins is the one that can rally together the best + set against the enemy the optimal set of NPCs + time the offensive spell attacks the best.

[Runnen]

Originally Posted by Cybsled

Know the WC3 game "hold the line" or Enfo's survival? Make it something like that. You enter BG. It's 10v10 or 5v5 or whatever. You all start on the top of the hill. Players buy monsters with "BG" gold. These monsters are added to the attack waves. Players have to fight them off before they reach the top, otherwise they lose a "life". You have 50 life points maybe. Every monster you kill nets you gold. Make it so different monsters take damage in different ways...like maybe make a monster take damage from heals so druids,shamans,priests,paladins get an advantage vs. them. Make a monster that takes massive damage from fire, etc. Also with the "BG" gold you can buy upgrades for your character that last during the match + launch offensive spells vs. the other side (A stun missle, a totem that drains mana, an npc that makes attacking monsters attack faster). Sort of an indirect PVP...the side that wins is the one that can rally together the best + set against the enemy the optimal set of NPCs + time the offensive spell attacks the best.

Sounds like Pokémon meets Warcraft. ;-) A good idea though!

[Mkopec1]

How bout a simple, kill first before you get killed.....

No rezzes. You die you stay as a ghost untill BG is over.

[Suineg]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

How bout a simple, kill first before you get killed.....

No rezzes. You die you stay as a ghost untill BG is over.

That is what I have been saying for a while except players can res.

Why have a spirit npc in battlegrounds to allow zerging even if it is on a timer.

I guarantee you wouldn't have soloers out there contributing nothing anymore.

[Dyscord]

I really wouldn't mind more PvE PvP type events. Things like Castle Defense, or Enfos would be cool ideas, except it would be a whole weird mechanic for powering up your character in the battleground.

Call me a wuss, but I'm a little tired of losing almost every match I play (or afking out because as a support class the only thing I have to look forward to is a red ass beat down) in WSG because the horde on my server knows how to work together and the alliance on my side sucks dick. Good PvPers either got sick of losing and rolled horde or 'are to good' to work with common alliance players so don't group. I really wouldn't mind a battleground with slightly less direct competition. Battlegrounds don't have to be about PvP. They can be about finding a unique experience that can't be found outside of the battleground.

Hero line wars, Multi-square defense, Castle Defense, and Enfos would be really cool if they were somehow translated into Battleground format. To bad the servers can barely support enough to play WSG and one AV if people cross faction communicate to get it going. That and new mechanics would take blizzard over a year to work out an implement for one silly little zone.

Edit: And OH PLEASE GOD YES. Do something about rezing in WSG. Its BEYOND gay that people can rez in 30 seconds. It makes turtling on the GY way to easy and makes killing anyone on offense absolutely useless if not deterimental as they can just rez back in at full health/mana out of combat. If rez were 1-2 minutes FORCED from when you die instead of this 'catch the spririt rezer at 5 seconds', people would have to vastly reconsider their BG strategies. Or at least battles would be over quicker.

[Mkopec1]

How bout a dungeon, where the alliance and horde enter at diffrent places and eventually have to meet up and destroy one another. And the winning team gets to do the rest of the dungeon and kill the boss.

[Rhym]

all great ideas...all mentioned extensively in beta...all recommended heavily during january and february as we waited for "battlegrounds." Some of these game ideas are almost too easy to implement. A couple 5v5 no spirit rez only player rez elimination style games in different environments, say 1 inside a dungeon, 1 outside, 1 underwater, etc. would be amazing. I'd like to see a King of the Hill game or a siege type with one team defending a fort while another assaults trying to take the throne room or something.

If blizzard had their act together I don't see how many of these concepts could not be introduced in under a month. I mean for some of the 5v5 kill types they could even use existing terrain in the game.

[Cad]

Okay but how would player rezzes actually work? In a 5 vs 5, how would a rezzer actually escape to come back and rez the party? Whoever won the initial battle would then be on a bug hunt to find the last guy or stealthed rogue.

[Dyscord]

Thats why we need...

THUNDERDOME!

Two teams enter... one team leaves!

I'll be Tina Turner.

[Miderin]

The big problem with elimination style BG/PVP is that it would heavily favor certain classes, and you would hear -ALOT- of whining. Imagine rogues staying stealth until the last person standing is almost dead. A paladin just running around and doing that invincible BS. Or on the other hand, cloth casters that get dropped way too fast.

I'd love to see more small team-orientated BG's. WSG is so much more fun than AV. At least as a rogue, in CTF I am capping flags, defending, protecting the carrier, dropping healers...I'm all over the map, and I feel like I contribute. In AV I just get looted.

[tjac]

Originally Posted by FuckYou

After participating in both BGs (or trying to in the case of AV) for a few weeks now, I think that small scale, short goal BGs are the way to go. WSG has it almost exactly right. 10v10 makes it so individual contribution can make a huge difference, and the average run is probably something in the range of 30-45 minutes. This is perfect for casual (not a lot of time) people and hardcore (have a lot of time) people since you can generally play for 2 or 10 hours without having to bail in the middle of a BG. Obviously there are problems getting an AV instance (or god forbid two) off the ground due to population issues, so it seems to me smaller is better in this case.

I think another game type that would translate well would be a 5v5 where first to X kills wins.

You're on the right track about how to conduct BGs, but what about getting the entire game back onto the path of being a MMORPG? Team combat is best left to FPS tournaments, and in the meantime WoW continues to go downhill . . .

[Deathwing]

I say they implement some version of smeer the queer. The person with the "ball", the queer, gets continual points as long as he holds the ball. People also get points for killing the queer. Lastly, the queer loses some points for getting killed while holding the "ball". The queer can transfer it at any time to whoever he likes.

So, this becomes a weird strategy of fast moving classes like to have the ball(druids, rogues), while snaring classes(mages, shaman) are good at killing the queer, but don't want to be the queer. I think some really cool games could be evolved from this type of game.

And best yet, you can make contemporary political references during your game since it's smeer the queer! Wouldn't it be fun to see conservatives versus liberals in a game of smeer the queer? Oh, the implications and inuendos are limitless!

[Cad]

Originally Posted by tjac

You're on the right track about how to conduct BGs, but what about getting the entire game back onto the path of being a MMORPG? Team combat is best left to FPS tournaments, and in the meantime WoW continues to go downhill . . .

Next-gen games need to do both, provide all sorts of outlets for fun. There are 40-man raids, 5-man dungeons, solo farming, solo PvP, 10 man PvP, 40-man PvP......

Adding a battleground with another type of combat for each raid added does not sound out of line. The trick is going to be keeping people playing each type enough to actually spawn battlegrounds of that type.

Having a list of BG's up with the queue size and number of players in and allowing you to enter the queue of the one you want based on that information would go a long way.....

[Cybsled]

Another idea...you know that WC3 game Tank Wars or that pirate one?

Make some close to that.

Plot: There are two rival factions of goblins (horde/alliance). Both are trying to stake claim to an area because it is rich in natural arcanite deposits or something. They've been fighting awhile so they are low on goblin shredder pilots. Thus where you come in.

Game: Everyone is in a basic shredder. All shredders have the same abilities. At the start you have the option of buying a slightly more complex shredder or a stealthy mining shredder. Mining shredder is like the trader in that pirate game. They run to a deposit, mine it, then run back to base. Whole team gets a big money bonus. The closer to the enemy base a deposit is, the more cash you get for it. The miner gets bonus money on top of the team bonus as well.

As the game progresses, you can buy weapon add-ons for your shredder or more complex shredders (more hp/faster/hold more weapons/special abilities/etc). If you die, you lose alot of money...so it's in your best interest to repair now and again. The game is over when one team is able to destroy the rival's ore processing base.

This would be a good type of BG IMO. It's much easier to balance, since everyone has a set number of options for attack/defense/etc...plus it would be nice for a change of pace.