BWL: Very brief rant on encounter design

Merton · 07-15-2005, 09:36 PM

If you're going to make aggro control the common theme with BWL bosses, then please give horde the equivalent of http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=1038

FuckYou · 07-15-2005, 09:39 PM

and give it this icon

chu · 07-15-2005, 09:50 PM

Horde gets windfury totem and such but it's meaningless if I can rarely ever go all out on encounters.w

Cadrid · 07-15-2005, 10:08 PM

I'm of the belief that Blessing of Salvation is not only unneccessary for encounters, but also nothing but a crutch for those that use it. Is it nice to have if you're a healer or damage dealer? Sure. But if you know how to play your class and aren't completely inept, you shouldn't need Salvation.

Be glad you're on the Horde side and don't have Salvation to rely on. In my opinion, it helps you weed out the inept fucktards.

forge · 07-15-2005, 10:18 PM

While were on the topic of bwl encounters. No shaman and paladin arguements will allow you to escape the abortion that is the razor encounter.

Marauder · 07-15-2005, 10:36 PM

Would be nice to have salvation on Onyxia - perhaps some of the upcoming BWL encounters considering most of the bosses are not tauntable at all. Yay!

Brodda Thep · 07-15-2005, 10:51 PM

yeah, have you seen all the alliance guilds blowing through the encounters? It is CRAAAAZZYYY!

Mir · 07-15-2005, 11:13 PM

I can sympathise with the horde not having salvation, I think it does help a lot in many situations and that (not paladins vs shaman in general) I think is one of the actual legitimate horde v alliance (easy v hard mode) arguments there is to make.

However I want to hijack this since we're talking about encounter design and bring up something I was sick and fucking tired of in early B E T A:

SWARM ADDS

One or two adds I don't mind, even fights that were more complicated that involved a lot of mob management like Emp Ssra were a lot of fun (but remember, there was real CC involved not cluster fuck combat alla wow).

I can't get over now, with the new raid zone, after months and months I finally get new content and I walk into the zone and the first FIRST thing you attack, period is the biggest, stupidest, cluster fuck of swarm adds in the history of man kind. I joked to my entire guild for months before BWL came out, before we killed Ragnaros, before we saw Onyxia... heh, it's Blizzard, the only kind of design concept they understand is fucking swarm adds. Not hard enough? Throw more mindless lemming adds at the encounter WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE get timmy the retard a new drool cup, it floweth over.

What happened? Ony had drakes, and that was okay, then Rag had the sons, and that was tolerable, but now BWL is out and I've just fucking had it.

No matter how long it takes, no matter how fucking out of this world retarded itemization is, no matter how buggy it is, how slow they fix it, or how little they care about post 60 PvE content...the simple fact is Blizzard sucks at end game encounter design. Maybe the biggest problem stems from the backbone of WoW itself, how combat is one big 10 second circle jerk cluster fuck, and the design team is crippled in their ability to do something other than just throw more mobs at a situation.

All I can say is BWL is a huge disapointment on a lot of levels. I wouldn't care if I didn't know that the next new raid instance is likely to be a year away, minimum, with no expansion in sight for another decade.

Brodda Thep · 07-15-2005, 11:19 PM

No way. They may not have progression down, or even done a good job at balancing difficulty (hint use progression to automatically tailor difficulty for individual guilds), but the encounters they do make are good. Certainly the first two encounters in BWL are good.

Certainly much better than Molten Core. But even then they did fairly well without using any sort of scripting whatsoever.

So to summarize. Design is good. Execution is flawed.

Ossoi · 07-16-2005, 01:02 PM

I'm sure that after reading this thread Blizzard are going to comply with your demands, and give Horde a Salvation Totem.

Being Alliance, I'd say Salvation is nice to have when your raid is starting out in MC and Onyxia and your mages still think they can cast nonstop, and your rogues can 5 pt coldblood eviscerate right on the word go, but its not essential by any stretch for a successful raid.

Can't speak for any encounter past Vaelstrasz, but Razergores conflag wipes aggro completely I think which means salvation or no salvation your Warriors better be pulling aggro back off the healers/dps.

robbrown · 07-16-2005, 01:05 PM

The only thing bwl has over mc is the lack of trash clearing.

ilian · 07-16-2005, 01:08 PM

I like swarm adds =/

Hardcore Cracka · 07-16-2005, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbrown

The only thing bwl has over mc is the lack of trash clearing.

Just wait until you get to the suppressor room.

ex-genj · 07-16-2005, 01:17 PM

as gay as it is really, defiance is horde's salvation.

Digo · 07-16-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mir

What happened? Ony had drakes, and that was okay, then Rag had the sons, and that was tolerable, but now BWL is out and I've just fucking had it.

You're whining just because you don't understand the encounter.

Personally, I love swarm adds. It's a refreshing change from the monotony of fighting a single giant-sized mob that hits one person and stands in the corner while 40 people poke it in the ass and periodically heal a boring DoT AE. I'm very pleased with raid mobs in WoW.

Except for Shazzrah. He can eat a bowl of dick.

07-15-2005, 09:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
Merton Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 98 -1 Internets	BWL: Very brief rant on encounter design If you're going to make aggro control the common theme with BWL bosses, then please give horde the equivalent of http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=1038

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07-15-2005, 09:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
chu Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,005 -25 Internets	Horde gets windfury totem and such but it's meaningless if I can rarely ever go all out on encounters.w

07-15-2005, 10:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cadrid Disciple of Dr. Paul Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Acton, Massachusetts Posts: 1,664 +3 Internets	I'm of the belief that Blessing of Salvation is not only unneccessary for encounters, but also nothing but a crutch for those that use it. Is it nice to have if you're a healer or damage dealer? Sure. But if you know how to play your class and aren't completely inept, you shouldn't need Salvation. Be glad you're on the Horde side and don't have Salvation to rely on. In my opinion, it helps you weed out the inept fucktards.

07-15-2005, 10:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
forge CTW! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: at work Posts: 445 +0 Internets	While were on the topic of bwl encounters. No shaman and paladin arguements will allow you to escape the abortion that is the razor encounter.

07-15-2005, 10:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
Marauder Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 321 +0 Internets	Would be nice to have salvation on Onyxia - perhaps some of the upcoming BWL encounters considering most of the bosses are not tauntable at all. Yay!

07-15-2005, 10:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
Brodda Thep Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 370 -1 Internets	yeah, have you seen all the alliance guilds blowing through the encounters? It is CRAAAAZZYYY!

07-15-2005, 11:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mir HULK SMASH Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Saturn Posts: 225 -2 Internets	I can sympathise with the horde not having salvation, I think it does help a lot in many situations and that (not paladins vs shaman in general) I think is one of the actual legitimate horde v alliance (easy v hard mode) arguments there is to make. However I want to hijack this since we're talking about encounter design and bring up something I was sick and fucking tired of in early B E T A: SWARM ADDS One or two adds I don't mind, even fights that were more complicated that involved a lot of mob management like Emp Ssra were a lot of fun (but remember, there was real CC involved not cluster fuck combat alla wow). I can't get over now, with the new raid zone, after months and months I finally get new content and I walk into the zone and the first FIRST thing you attack, period is the biggest, stupidest, cluster fuck of swarm adds in the history of man kind. I joked to my entire guild for months before BWL came out, before we killed Ragnaros, before we saw Onyxia... heh, it's Blizzard, the only kind of design concept they understand is fucking swarm adds. Not hard enough? Throw more mindless lemming adds at the encounter WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE get timmy the retard a new drool cup, it floweth over. What happened? Ony had drakes, and that was okay, then Rag had the sons, and that was tolerable, but now BWL is out and I've just fucking had it. No matter how long it takes, no matter how fucking out of this world retarded itemization is, no matter how buggy it is, how slow they fix it, or how little they care about post 60 PvE content...the simple fact is Blizzard sucks at end game encounter design. Maybe the biggest problem stems from the backbone of WoW itself, how combat is one big 10 second circle jerk cluster fuck, and the design team is crippled in their ability to do something other than just throw more mobs at a situation. All I can say is BWL is a huge disapointment on a lot of levels. I wouldn't care if I didn't know that the next new raid instance is likely to be a year away, minimum, with no expansion in sight for another decade.

07-15-2005, 11:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Brodda Thep Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 370 -1 Internets	No way. They may not have progression down, or even done a good job at balancing difficulty (hint use progression to automatically tailor difficulty for individual guilds), but the encounters they do make are good. Certainly the first two encounters in BWL are good. Certainly much better than Molten Core. But even then they did fairly well without using any sort of scripting whatsoever. So to summarize. Design is good. Execution is flawed.

07-16-2005, 01:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ossoi Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 522 -10 Internets	I'm sure that after reading this thread Blizzard are going to comply with your demands, and give Horde a Salvation Totem. Being Alliance, I'd say Salvation is nice to have when your raid is starting out in MC and Onyxia and your mages still think they can cast nonstop, and your rogues can 5 pt coldblood eviscerate right on the word go, but its not essential by any stretch for a successful raid. Can't speak for any encounter past Vaelstrasz, but Razergores conflag wipes aggro completely I think which means salvation or no salvation your Warriors better be pulling aggro back off the healers/dps.

07-16-2005, 01:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
robbrown Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 116 +0 Internets	The only thing bwl has over mc is the lack of trash clearing.

07-16-2005, 01:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
ilian Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 375 -1 Internets	I like swarm adds =/

07-16-2005, 01:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
ex-genj Sean and I soloed Inno with Mistwalkers in 99 Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 768 -4 Internets	as gay as it is really, defiance is horde's salvation.